Bulgaria V Republic of Ireland - Thursday, 3rd September 2020 - UEFA Nations League

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Originally Posted by jbyrne

i think all those omitting coleman from their dream teams are forgetting that SK has already confirmed he will be his captain and that colemans form this year has been quite good.
pretty sure coleman will start thursday

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I don't think they are simply "forgetting" those points. There are plenty points regarding Doherty that Kenny has made. Plenty. People are clearly siding with their own preference or putting greater weight in Kenny saying Doherty is "one of the best full backs around for sure", that "he would be very much in the frame to play" and that "Matt had probably been undervalued by Ireland, only 3 competitive starts for Ireland at 28 years of age."

I agree that they'll get a game each. And the selection for Slovakia might be a function of their strategy for dealing with Slovakia moreso than who is the better player.

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Originally Posted by DeLorean

I can see Coleman and Doherty getting match each, with Coleman more likely to play in the first one.

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I wouldn't agree with that. You cant drop a guy if he is excellent for the next game just to be nice to the other guy

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Originally Posted by Diggs246

I wouldn't agree with that. You cant drop a guy if he is excellent for the next game just to be nice to the other guy

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Maybe Coleman in particular is happy with the situation as Captain. Hopefully he wants the best for the Team Overall. Doherty is one of our Best Players ( certainly on Club Form ). Surely we can get him in the Team.

I would be of the philosophy to play them both. This business of it didn't work against Gibraltar is nonsense. Everyone was terrible that day

I can see them being rotated somewhat with the next year being a transition period, with Doherty playing when we are looking to attack more in a game, and Coleman coming in when we need a more solid back 4. I think how they are used this week will give a good picture of what Kenny will do.

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Originally Posted by Olé Olé

Dan McDonnell went with his best guess of a starting 11 on OTB last night. Generally, a decently informed and connected source on Irish football and Kenny. He's going with the following (though based a lot on guesswork more than information);
Randolph
Doherty Egan Duffy Stevens
Hendrick McCarthy Hourihane
Robinson Idah McClean

He referred to Connolly, Coleman and Long as options. Maybe O'Dowda too for Robinson.

He referred specifically to the Connolly and McClean conundrum and how Kenny may adapt that position depending on the opposition. If we are concerned with an attacking right flank by Slovakia, then this is the game where he might start McClean as an audition for Slovakia.

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The game has to be an audition for the Slovakia game, otherwise ------- life has no meaning.

On Dan McDonnell being pushed into a corner on OTB to name his starting team, he wasn't at all prepared,had nothing written down and I've never heard him ramble on so aimlessly, as much as he did when hitting the wall on the last 4 or 5 players and the formation, he hedged more bets than Deutche Bank.
It just goes to show that when someone like Dan who's familiar with Kenny over the past 10 years can't 2nd guess what Kenny is likely to chose, what chance us?

What we have is two players competing for only one spot in my opinion. It just doesnt work with our new formation to have them both in there unless you put one of them in left back for Stevens which would not make sense whatsoever. The shirt (and armband) are Colemans to lose but Doherty is breathing down his neck. As good as Matt has been over the last two years, Coleman has come back from a horrific injury and has for all intents and purposes matched him. He was sensational for Everton after the covid break.

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Originally Posted by Diggs246

I wouldn't agree with that. You cant drop a guy if he is excellent for the next game just to be nice to the other guy

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Well I think there's a good chance the team will be rotated to an extent between the two matches anyway, so it wouldn't be as cut-throat as you describe. There's a chance SK will want to look at as many players as possible, before the really big calls next month.

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Originally Posted by geysir

The game has to be an audition for the Slovakia game, otherwise ------- life has no meaning.

On Dan McDonnell being pushed into a corner on OTB to name his starting team, he wasn't at all prepared,had nothing written down and I've never heard him ramble on so aimlessly, as much as he did when hitting the wall on the last 4 or 5 players and the formation, he hedged more bets than Deutche Bank.
It just goes to show that when someone like Dan who's familiar with Kenny over the past 10 years can't 2nd guess what Kenny is likely to chose, what chance us?

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It made for uncomfortable listening. Almost as uncomfortable as Joe Molloy's rant from atop his soapbox regarding the recommendation for Roy Barrett by Bank of Ireland. Utterly cringe to hear such paranoid virtue signalling from someone with no experience in corporate governance, or business in general.

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Originally Posted by Olé Olé

McGoldrick is injured for Bulgaria.

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Ohh. I was tempted to suggest giving Idah the run anyway. Makes that decision easy.

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Originally Posted by SkStu

What we have is two players competing for only one spot in my opinion. It just doesnt work with our new formation to have them both in there unless you put one of them in left back for Stevens which would not make sense whatsoever. The shirt (and armband) are Colemans to lose but Doherty is breathing down his neck. As good as Matt has been over the last two years, Coleman has come back from a horrific injury and has for all intents and purposes matched him. He was sensational for Everton after the covid break.

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I tried to post this earlier from my phone but it didn't seem to work - anyway, I wouldn't rule out Coleman starting as a centre half alongside Egan. If we do intend to play possession football it wouldn't really favour Duffy, as we've seen with Brighton since Potter came in.

------------------Randolph------
Doc-------Duffy-------------Egan (c) ---------Stevens

-------Hendrick----Jimmy Mac----Molumby---

---Long------------Idah-------------McClean

Margin calls: Hourihane; Connolly; Coleman.

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Originally Posted by zero

I tried to post this earlier from my phone but it didn't seem to work - anyway, I wouldn't rule out Coleman starting as a centre half alongside Egan. If we do intend to play possession football it wouldn't really favour Duffy, as we've seen with Brighton since Potter came in.

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Yes I think many here simply can't conceptualize Coleman as a centre half, but I agree this could be what Kenny has in mind. It was interesting that Kenny made reference to Coleman playing there for Everton semi-regularly. I don't watch every Everton match but I only recall him playing at centre half once as the right sided member in a back three. Maybe an Everton supporter could give us more context on how often he actually has played there.

Sneaky feeling:

Randolph

Doherty Duffy Egan Stevens

Arter McCarthy Molumby

Robinson Idah McClean/Connolly


I think McClean is a perfect example of a workhorse winger that Kenny loves. But he's clearly a big fan of Connolly. That's the biggest toss up for me.

I guess it will be a 4-3-3
-----------------randy
Coleman-- duffy --Egan--- Stevens
------Hendricks - McCarthy --arter
---------Doherty-- long--- Connelly

I reckon McClean is near enough first man on his team sheet.

Randolph

Coleman Duffy Egan Stevens
Hendrick McCarthy Hourihane
Long Idah McClean

I'm only making 1 prediction. Connolly will start and score. Basing it on probably the most stupid thing, but every time I go to social media I see him banging goals into top corner in training. Just seen an absolute scorcher from their training in the stadium tonight

Is McClean v Connolly similar to Coleman v Doherty in that only one can start? Or does Connolly play on the right side and James on the left? Or could we have two inverted wingers with James on the right and Connolly on the left? I have a recollection of James playing on the right for us before but I could be wrong. And I can't see him being capable of playing there. Could be wrong there too.

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Originally Posted by Razors left peg

I'm only making 1 prediction. Connolly will start and score. Basing it on probably the most stupid thing, but every time I go to social media I see him banging goals into top corner in training. Just seen an absolute scorcher from their training in the stadium tonight

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I'm hoping he starts because I want to see him play in what I think is by far his more natural position, out on the left. Always feels like he's forcing it a bit at Brighton, playing through the middle. That training goal was a cracker - again it was cutting in from the left as most of his best play tends to be.

The radio just said Coleman will be dropped for Doherty and idah and McCarthy will start. I just caught the end of it

Any notions on when we will get the teamsheets?

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Originally Posted by Olé Olé

Any notions on when we will get the teamsheets?

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An hour or so before kick off seems standard these days.

------------- Randolph ------------

Coleman - Duffy - Egan - Stevens

---- Hendrick - McCarthy - Arter ---

O'Dowda/Robinson - McClean/Connolly

------------- Idah/Long ------------


Not much of a 'prediction' as I really have no idea what front three he'll go with, but I think that'll be our 1-8. In the off chance he saves McCarthy for Finland, maybe to appease Palace & Roy, Arter will move to the holding role with Hourihane to his left. Molumby has a chance too but I suspect he'll be used from the bench tonight. Doherty to start RB v Finland.

I think the first half might be a bit sluggish but we'll improve as the game goes on, and our bench will have a big impact. Bulgaria 1-2 Ireland.

I think what many may not realise when the match kicks off tomorrow night, is that as well as being Ireland's first match in this round of the Nations League, it's also de facto Ireland's first match in the qualifying campaign for the Euro's in 2024.

As seen by getting a play off place in Slovakia next month, it is imperative that Ireland does not finish bottom of the group in the Nations League, because staying in Group B of the Nations League almost guarantees at worst a play off when the Euro campaign finishes, no matter how badly you play in the qualifiers themselves.

We were lucky that the NL group sizes were brought up to 4 from 3, and not dropped into the C group.

If we finish in the top 3 of this group, it means no matter how poor we play in the WC qualifiers, we'll still be in B path in 2022 Nations League. Another Top 3 finish there, will mean that when inevitably most of the A and B group qualify automatically, non qualifiers in the B group, will make up most of the play off places.

Being in the B group, also is the way to get better seedings for the WC and Euro qualifiers.. so there's a lot riding on good performances here for the next few months

Anyone think there might be a surprise goalkeeper selection? Randolph's weakness is sitting deep in his box and being shaky with distribution, would Travers fit better with the new style? Haven't seen enough of him myself to say. Obviously Kelleher is more in the modern sweeper keeper style, but can't see him playing. Even the journalists seem split on if it'll be Doherty or Coleman, most likely seems to be a game each, or experiment with Coleman centre back or Doherty left back. I reckon there's a good chance McCarthy isn't risked for the Bulgaria game, so Arter holding is more likely. Brady might be the surprise in there with Hendrick and Arter, Molumby off the bench. I think Long will start and Idah will come on, McClean to start too and Connolly also off the bench.

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Originally Posted by passinginterest

Anyone think there might be a surprise goalkeeper selection? Randolph's weakness is sitting deep in his box and being shaky with distribution, would Travers fit better with the new style? Haven't seen enough of him myself to say. Obviously Kelleher is more in the modern sweeper keeper style, but can't see him playing. Even the journalists seem split on if it'll be Doherty or Coleman, most likely seems to be a game each, or experiment with Coleman centre back or Doherty left back. I reckon there's a good chance McCarthy isn't risked for the Bulgaria game, so Arter holding is more likely. Brady might be the surprise in there with Hendrick and Arter, Molumby off the bench. I think Long will start and Idah will come on, McClean to start too and Connolly also off the bench.

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Finally!!!!!!!

It's a serious bug-bear of mine. Myself and elatedscum have spoken (with slight disagreement) on this, while one of foot's prominent members if of the GK fraternity, and doesn't particularly agree with me either.
Personally I'd be happy to not see Darren play. I think he has definitely made some world class saves (hello Gibralter), but he has also conceded some poor goals, and for me the deepness at which he sits in his own box -regardless of where the play is on the pitch - and his poor distribution, have not helped us in the past few years (I'm not buying the punt for Long v Germany - a hoof, is a hoof, is a hoof).

Dara O'Shea is the one who misses out of the match day squad. List below with numbers. Doubt it means much as we always have some players who always wear certain numbers (Brady 10, Hendrick 13, Hourihane 14, Randolph 23 etc) but interesting to see Idah get 9 and not Long!

1. Mark Travers (Bournemouth)
2. Seamus Coleman (Everton)
3. Enda Stevens (Sheffield United)
4. Shane Duffy (Celtic)
5. John Egan (Sheffield United)
6. Alan Browne (Preston North End)
7. Matt Doherty (Tottenham Hotspur)
8. James McCarthy (Crystal Palace)
9. Adam Idah (Norwich City)
10. Robbie Brady (Burnley)
11. James McClean (Stoke City)
12. Callum Robinson (Sheffield United)
13. Jeff Hendrick (Newcastle United)
14. Conor Hourihane (Aston Villa)
15. Callum O’Dowda (Bristol City)
16. Caoimhín Kelleher (Liverpool)
17. Aaron Connolly (Brighton & Hove Albion)
18. Shane Long (Southampton)
19. Sean Maguire (Preston North End)
20. Harry Arter (Bournemouth)
21. Darragh Lenihan (Blackburn Rovers)
22. Jayson Molumby (Brighton & Hove Albion)
23. Darren Randolph (West Ham United

Does Randy not like number 1?

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Originally Posted by Olé Olé

Does Randy not like number 1?

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Could be a superstition thing or personal preference but I don't think he's ever worn anything but 23 for us. Not since he came on for Given vs Germany anyway.

Our keepers always wear 1, 16 and 23 anyway, bit of a tradition. 16 is favoured in Ireland rather than the typical 13 for most other teams' back up keepers. I'd guess it's linked to GAA sub keepers wearing it which is pretty cool!

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Originally Posted by Kingdom

Finally!!!!!!!

It's a serious bug-bear of mine. Myself and elatedscum have spoken (with slight disagreement) on this, while one of foot's prominent members if of the GK fraternity, and doesn't particularly agree with me either.
Personally I'd be happy to not see Darren play. I think he has definitely made some world class saves (hello Gibralter), but he has also conceded some poor goals, and for me the deepness at which he sits in his own box -regardless of where the play is on the pitch - and his poor distribution, have not helped us in the past few years (I'm not buying the punt for Long v Germany - a hoof, is a hoof, is a hoof).

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He is not perfect but is by a country mile our best keeper, in relation to travers apart from his game against spurs what has he done to merit being Ireland No1?
Kelliher wasn't even good enough when playing for the u21s

Why is McGoldrick only linking for the other game?

Yeah I don't particularly rate Randolph highly but he has to be our first choice now. Travers hasn't played enough and Kelleher hasn't impressed at all.

Thankfully we just need one of the exciting young batch we have to work out and we're set for a long time. I think Bazunu is going to be a serious talent and I'm very excited to see him play first team this year.

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Originally Posted by ColourfulPeanut

Yeah I don't particularly rate Randolph highly but he has to be our first choice now. Travers hasn't played enough and Kelleher hasn't impressed at all.

Thankfully we just need one of the exciting young batch we have to work out and we're set for a long time. I think Bazunu is going to be a serious talent and I'm very excited to see him play first team this year.

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I have only seen him a few times and he always looks great. But there is no ceiling for Bazunu. City clearly rate him highly and City have their choice of young goalkeepers the world over. Not to mention they're happy to send him on loan to a League One side at 18. It all points toward freakish talent which I don't feel used to!

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Originally Posted by Briuk

Why is McGoldrick only linking for the other game?

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Managing a long term foot injury

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Originally Posted by Olé Olé

I have only seen him a few times and he always looks great. But there is no ceiling for Bazunu. City clearly rate him highly and City have their choice of young goalkeepers the world over. Not to mention they're happy to send him on loan to a League One side at 18. It all points toward freakish talent which I don't feel used to!

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I think there's a very good chance Bazunu is our 1st choice keeper by end of this season. Randolph could be on bench all season, Travers too and Kelleher is in no man's land. If Bazunu has good season he could be fast tracked like Shay Given was

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Originally Posted by passinginterest

Anyone think there might be a surprise goalkeeper selection? Randolph's weakness is sitting deep in his box and being shaky with distribution, would Travers fit better with the new style? Haven't seen enough of him myself to say. Obviously Kelleher is more in the modern sweeper keeper style, but can't see him playing. Even the journalists seem split on if it'll be Doherty or Coleman, most likely seems to be a game each, or experiment with Coleman centre back or Doherty left back. I reckon there's a good chance McCarthy isn't risked for the Bulgaria game, so Arter holding is more likely. Brady might be the surprise in there with Hendrick and Arter, Molumby off the bench. I think Long will start and Idah will come on, McClean to start too and Connolly also off the bench.

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This is my only memory of Travers distribution:

https://youtu.be/YFmrc1BtxB0 (Goal 1) - not entirely his fault but relevant to the discussion. Kelleher has good distribution and is comfortable with the ball at his feet but is inconsistent, like he’ll have a game here or there where everything is going into touch and his distribution looks very shaky...

If there is a better goalie than Randolph then lets talk about that, otherwise all other debate about Randolph's shortcomings are incidental.

He had a very good game v Swiss, his 2nd last game for us and saved a penalty, he's wearing the gloves as it stands now.

Has any Irish goalkeeper had good "modern" distribution since the backpass rule changed? And my recollection of Kingdom's critique is that it's the speed (or lack of) rather than accuracy of his short distribution that is the bugbear. And I'd say that that might be a valid argument but I'd ask (a) is it intrinsic to his game / is it a flaw at club level too?, and (b) isn't it a criticism that can be aimed at pretty much all 11 on the pitch in the last 10 years, most notably deep / central midfield.

As for being too deep, as an ex-keeper who in my modest opinion patrolled his box well, I've never really noticed Randolph not being there to collect the routine through ball that eludes the CBs. I think only CBs and GKs really notice and appreciate when a ball is just collected 16 yards from goal without any fuss. Because it looks easy but requires a good reading of the game. I just haven't felt that Randolph is short in that regard, and I don't really recall any instances where a ball behind the defence, between defence and keeper has exposed us.

He has his hairy moments, the occasional flapped punch when coming through bodies (one in Belgrade was particularly awful) but overall I think he's a good composed keeper and if you look at our defenders' body language you can see they trust him. That's good enough for me.

So let's see if Kenny's wishes for fluid confident building-from-the-back approach exposes a weakness in his distribution. I'm not saying it won't, I'm just saying that our goalkeeper hasn't been the only player we've had who has been conservative with his use of the ball in recent years. If he'd been Ederson we'd have just lost the ball quickly anyway! Only our full backs really look comfortable receiving the ball tight. Our CBs and CMs just don't, so why give it to them?

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

Has any Irish goalkeeper had good "modern" distribution since the backpass rule changed?

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Alan Kelly was probably the best with it I guess? Though that was really in terms of being able to boot the ball really far rather than, say, being able to play an outfield pass.

Agree though that Randolph is the number 1 at present. We're really struggling in for keepers though, and have been for some time.

I wonder is 12 pages of discussion on this match a sign of higher-than-usual interest in the match? Seems a much busier thread than we've had here for a long time. I'm looking forward to it to be honest. Hard to know what to expect - didn't England win 6-0 here last year? And Bulgaria were wojus when they played in Lansdowne last year.

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

I wonder is 12 pages of discussion on this match a sign of higher-than-usual interest in the match?

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Or a sign of working from home?!