Dara O'Shea D Burnley b.1999

It’s a funny old game. Pretty sure Duffy is the top scorer under Kenny and was the top scorer under Mick as well. He’s a unique threat - and will come up with a goal, an assist or force a keeper to make a good save - at least once a match.

I know the two giveaways against Scotland were stark but I can’t remember any others within this campaign. And even though Alan Browne had a really good game at right back, he really didn’t help Duffy for the second one of those. He was asleep and allowed Robertson to come through him after the pass was played. Can’t really see it on the cameras cause it’s out of shot but it was right in front of me in the stadium

Bizarrely, had we not lost the ball there, we wouldn’t have scored the second. Kelleher’s reaction to losing it there was to pump it long to Troy.

I genuinely think he’s our weakest short passer but our strongest long passer among our centre halves. He has that beautiful raking pass to the winger, which I haven’t seen anyone else hit as well.

I think my instinct would be Collins, Duffy, Egan but it’s an embarrassment of riches with Omobamidele, O’Shea, Lenihan, along with Manning who I prefer left of a three rather than at wing back

Pretty sure Robinson is top goal scorer with six goals. And just checking there but own goal would top scorer under Mick with two goals. None of our players scored more than one goal under Mick I believe.

I think Egan, Collins and O'Shea all pose a threat in the opposition box as well, without simultaneously posing the threat to us in our own box that Duffy seems to. O'Shea scored at the weekend, Collins got a couple in the Premier League last season, Omobamidele got one as well actually even though he was injured for most of the season.

I know that Duffy caused mayhem in the Scotland defence last time out and played a big part in one of our goals. But, as time goes on and the other lads who are much more comfortable on the ball kick on, it's probably time to change Duffy's status to being a bench impact player now. It would be one thing if we didn't have any other good options but we're absolutely stacked in that position so continuing to start him seems to amount to taking a risk that we no longer need to. He just doesn't suit the kind of football we're trying to play.

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Originally Posted by Eirambler

I think Egan, Collins and O'Shea all pose a threat in the opposition box as well

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Lenihan too.

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Originally Posted by Eirambler

It would be one thing if we didn't have any other good options but we're absolutely stacked in that position so continuing to start him seems to amount to taking a risk that we no longer need to. He just doesn't suit the kind of football we're trying to play.

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The pity for Duffy is that he doesn't suit the way an increasing number of teams want to play. Certainly not Brighton and possibly not even Fulham for whom he hasn't started as of yet.

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Originally Posted by third policeman

Agree with that. I suspect his passing stats include a number of 5 yard passes to the other CB's.

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So do the other centre halves'. I don't understand this obsession with exaggerating Duffy's moderate weaknesses at passing to the extent that his completed passes somehow don't count, and his strengths are dismissed as irrelevant. He's been a fantastic player for us. Someone even went so far as to suggest Lenihan, a mediocre Championship defender with 0 Premiership experience, is a threat to Duffy's squad place. I was just reading someone defending Man Utd's new miniature centre half's heading stats. He was compared with the other best defenders in that regard in the UK. Only Van Dijk, who could make a world XI at centre half, had significantly better percentages than Duffy.

Duffy has had a super career for us and this strengths and leadership qualities are obvious. But the point about nearly gifting Scotland two goals in quick succession can’t be ignored. I thought we looked very comfortable away to Ukraine with Lenihan/O’Shea/Collins and I think Egan and Omobamidele should be starting with Collins now. The Kenny way of playing was much more natural to these guys.

I don’t think it’s ridiculous at all to suggest that Lenihan could take Duffy’s squad place, especially if Duffy isn’t playing. Right now I think neither is a starter for us but Duffy’s experience and knack of important goals keep him in the squad and close to starting. We’re certainly well covered in this position. Lenihan is a bit unlucky to only be 6th choice.

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Originally Posted by John83

So do the other centre halves'. I don't understand this obsession with exaggerating Duffy's moderate weaknesses at passing to the extent that his completed passes somehow don't count, and his strengths are dismissed as irrelevant. He's been a fantastic player for us. Someone even went so far as to suggest Lenihan, a mediocre Championship defender with 0 Premiership experience, is a threat to Duffy's squad place. I was just reading someone defending Man Utd's new miniature centre half's heading stats. He was compared with the other best defenders in that regard in the UK. Only Van Dijk, who could make a world XI at centre half, had significantly better percentages than Duffy.

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Graham Potter wouldn't have put him back into a Brighton starting XI if he didn't think Duffy was capable of doing the basics, and Brighton are probably like prime Barcelona compared to us for ball possession and retention.

Especially after the year Duffy had away on loan and he still stuck by him playing the first half of the season.

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Originally Posted by JR89

Graham Potter wouldn't have put him back into a Brighton starting XI if he didn't think Duffy was capable of doing the basics, and Brighton are probably like prime Barcelona compared to us for ball possession and retention.

Especially after the year Duffy had away on loan and he still stuck by him playing the first half of the season.

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So why was he warming the bench in the second half f the season and sent out on loan to Fulham then?

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Originally Posted by third policeman

So why was he warming the bench in the second half f the season and sent out on loan to Fulham then?

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Injuries. He missed three games because of an ankle injury early January and when he came back from that he played every second game up till the international break and after the international break he was out again for a couple of weeks because of a thigh issue.

Couldn't tell you the reasons why Duffy went on loan. Maybe he wanted to leave to try and get a season of playing. He's not first choice and his contract is up next summer. Probably wants the playing time to help find a new club. Leaving when he did I'm happy to assume Potter would have kept him for the season as back up to Dunk and Webster. Wasn't in a rush to let him leave or replace him and only left him move on loan when they sold Cucurella and got Colwill on loan as part of the deal who can play LCB and LB.

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Originally Posted by John83

So do the other centre halves'. I don't understand this obsession with exaggerating Duffy's moderate weaknesses at passing to the extent that his completed passes somehow don't count, and his strengths are dismissed as irrelevant. He's been a fantastic player for us. Someone even went so far as to suggest Lenihan, a mediocre Championship defender with 0 Premiership experience, is a threat to Duffy's squad place. I was just reading someone defending Man Utd's new miniature centre half's heading stats. He was compared with the other best defenders in that regard in the UK. Only Van Dijk, who could make a world XI at centre half, had significantly better percentages than Duffy.

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It is interesting that is how you see it. From where i am sitting, my take here is that almost every post that is critical about Duffy starts with a qualification about how good he is in so many aspects. I only had to scroll to the top of the page to see two posts that were critical of his weaknesses that started with a comment about how important his strengths are. The problem is his weaknesses are not moderate - certainly not in the context of what the preferred game plan is for this team - and at times they are glaring and costly. As an aside, to downplay Lenihan who is widely regarded as one of the best Championship centre backs isn't really fair.

All things considered (incl. current playing minutes etc) - Duffy as a starter, not for me. Duffy as an option off the bench, sign me up.

I've probably been less generous than some with respect to Duffy's attributes, but for the record, his presence at set-pieces, commitment and leadership influence are all positives. But it does come down to team identity and how we intend to play. The mistakes against Scotland demonstrate that he's not as equipped as at least 4 possibly 5 other players to occupy that position in a team playing that style of football. If I have overemphasised the negatives with respect to Duffy and McClean. it's because they represent the stereotypical and generally regressive self-image of Irish football under some recent managerial regimes.

Probably the main difference between Duffy and McClean is that we have a number of players ready to step in in Duffy's position. If we were limited in options at centre back like we are at left back I'd have no problem with Duffy still starting. But we have younger options in his position that are more suited to the way we want to play so it makes sense to bring them in, using Egan as the experienced head alongside them.

It's interesting that some people have Darragh Lenihan ahead of Shane Duffy in their assessments. I am old enough to remember Lenihan giving the ball away very cheaply against N. Ireland, under absolutely no pressure, and almost costing us a goal on that occasion. Anyone else remember that? Maybe not. It doesn't really matter, but it doesn't mean he can't pass the ball and it would be absurd to write him off entirely based on it.

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Originally Posted by Predator

It's interesting that some people have Darragh Lenihan ahead of Shane Duffy in their assessments. I am old enough to remember Lenihan giving the ball away very cheaply against N. Ireland, under absolutely no pressure, and almost costing us a goal on that occasion. Anyone else remember that? Maybe not. It doesn't really matter, but it doesn't mean he can't pass the ball and it would be absurd to write him off entirely based on it.

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Are u old enough to remember his performance versus the USA.
Best player on the pitch ! He is outrageously underrated

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Originally Posted by Predator

It's interesting that some people have Darragh Lenihan ahead of Shane Duffy in their assessments. I am old enough to remember Lenihan giving the ball away very cheaply against N. Ireland, under absolutely no pressure, and almost costing us a goal on that occasion. Anyone else remember that? Maybe not. It doesn't really matter, but it doesn't mean he can't pass the ball and it would be absurd to write him off entirely based on it.

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The longer you have a player performing to a high standard on a weekly basis at the top end of the Championship vs. a player who cant get any playing time while loaned out from his parent club, the more reasonable the debate about who is ahead of who becomes.

I say the above acknowledging that the move to Boro doesn't appear to have been seamless for Lenihan. Another factor in the debate.

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Originally Posted by Predator

It's interesting that some people have Darragh Lenihan ahead of Shane Duffy in their assessments. I am old enough to remember Lenihan giving the ball away very cheaply against N. Ireland, under absolutely no pressure, and almost costing us a goal on that occasion. Anyone else remember that? Maybe not. It doesn't really matter, but it doesn't mean he can't pass the ball and it would be absurd to write him off entirely based on it.

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I do, and I think I referred to it in a post-Ukraine match post. I felt that stray pass cost him a place in the squad for the following years.

Any highlights of that game? Can't seem to find any on youtube.

There's highlights in the match thread in the archive folder: https://foot.ie/threads/237647-Repub...-2018-Friendly

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Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

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Originally Posted by ifk101

Any highlights of that game? Can't seem to find any on youtube.

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He had 2 bad ones in that game, a pass and a dispossession, which both almost cost a goal. Him getting dispossessed is at the end of these highlights (1.30): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BK49S4Qd1XU - the pass one isn't included...

There's a third one which is a pass higher up the pitch at 0.42 seconds which they counter from.

He's 18 if you're looking out for it

Steve Bruce, Sacked ~ ~ Who didn’t see that coming ? ~ ~ Maybe those that were daft enough to give Bruce the West Brom Job.

Talk in the media of Roy Keane being the favourite to take over.

Odds slashed on Roy Keane to become new West Brom manager:

https://www.expressandstar.com/sport...-brom-manager/

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Originally Posted by Trequartista20

Talk in the media of Roy Keane being the favourite to take over.

Odds slashed on Roy Keane to become new West Brom manager:

https://www.expressandstar.com/sport...-brom-manager/

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Would be great crack but it’s probably just the media spinning a story ~ ~ Mind you West Brom did appoint Steve Bruce the last time so they are capable of going against what football history suggests not to do.

Yeah, probably. A Roy Keane story always makes good copy. He's favourite with the bookies and was seen at West Brom's match with Preston recently, but I doubt if there's a lot in it.

Would be fun though.

Speaking to West Brom News (24 April) Rajpal Brar, a specialist in Physical Therapy and Sports Scientist, said he expects O'Shea (24) to recover from his campaign-ending knee injury in June. “It doesn’t seem like it will cost him the pre-season and he should have ample time to be ready if all things go to plan. If he is unable, the best way to return to fitness would be to get game minutes in other formats, U-21s for example, and then in ...(substitute appearances) ... with the 1st team.”

So it seems unlikely that O'Shea will feature in Ireland's next competitive matches.

He's back jogging on it, heavily strapped up but good to see him on his feet again. Seniors have a four day training camp in England before flying to Turkey so would assume he'd show up to that even if he's not fit enough to actually play. They'd probably have the camp in Loughborough University which is based in the midlands so not far from West Brom.

According to the Daily Mail (end of April), West Brom had borrowed £20million from MSD Capital to avoid selling players in January, but would "struggle to secure more lending while they are still in the Championship. To compound matters, their parachute payments from the Premier League will reduce to around £15m next season, so selling players such as Dara O’Shea and Karlan Grant is the only way they can survive.” One wonders if West Brom might have made it into the playoffs if O'Shea had been available for April/May (W3 D2 L4).

Burnley in advance talks with West Brom and they reckon a medical could happen soon.

Will he play for Burnley though? They have Jordan Beyer and then a huge drop off to a load of centre backs that aren't Premier League quality. I'm surprised to see Burnley cheap out and not spring for Taylor Harwood-Bellis, who was excellent all season long next to Beyer.

Newcastle have shown interest in Taylor Harwood-Bellis and he's still underage again for the U21s so worth a few quid cause he won't need to be registered for any squads next season. City could even decide to keep him around to give minutes to as they're planning to do similar with James McAtee who had a good season with Sheffield United.

That's a bargain for Burnley.

Deal completed and signs a four year contract.

Manager Vincent Kompany added: "It’s great to welcome Dara to Burnley and we know he can play a big part in the progression of our football club. Strong at the back as well as confident moving forward, a leader with experience and knowledge of playing at the highest level.

"Dara will be a great addition to our squad and we can’t wait to start working with him.”

https://www.burnleyfootballclub.com/...s-now-a-claret

He will be in good kompany there.

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Originally Posted by JR89

Deal completed and signs a four year contract.

Manager Vincent Kompany added: "It’s great to welcome Dara to Burnley and we know he can play a big part in the progression of our football club. Strong at the back as well as confident moving forward, a leader with experience and knowledge of playing at the highest level.

"Dara will be a great addition to our squad and we can’t wait to start working with him.”

https://www.burnleyfootballclub.com/...s-now-a-claret

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That is just a fantastic move for him all round I think. Moving to a club that I think has a good shot to stay in the premier league this season, he'll step up a level and do so under a progressive coach who was also a bloody good defender. I think O'Shea can get even better. Bit of a steal for Burnley too if you ask me.

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Originally Posted by SkStu

That is just a fantastic move for him all round I think. Moving to a club that I think has a good shot to stay in the premier league this season, he'll step up a level and do so under a progressive coach who was also a bloody good defender. I think O'Shea can get even better. Bit of a steal for Burnley too if you ask me.

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I agree, I think he should play regularly. Hes got a bit of class about him and has Premiership experience already. Good move for him and good signing for Burnley.

He does block Luke Nally though so Id expect him to look for another loan move.

Could we end up with a fully EPL based back line? Suppose it depends where Doherty ends up as we'd need to play him on the left.

A newly promoted club is always at high risk of going straight back down, but that aside, this is a great move. You'd expect Kompany would know a good defender when he sees one, so this is a nice sign that O'Shea is as good as we think.

It's a shame Collins didn't stay put.

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Originally Posted by ontheotherhand

It's a shame Collins didn't stay put.

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If he did they probably wouldn't have signed O'Shea. It seemed a good move for Collins at the time, but Wolves were bit of a mess and he suffered for it. He'll be fine, I'd expect him to play regularly this season at Wolves or maybe Brentford

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Originally Posted by ontheotherhand

Could we end up with a fully EPL based back line? Suppose it depends where Doherty ends up as we'd need to play him on the left.

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I'd be surprised if Doherty id in the prem
Unless manning gets a premier league but will he be picked for Ireland is another question.
I actually didn't realise he was on the team of the year( championship)