FAI Invites First Division Expressions of Interest

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Originally Posted by NeverFeltBetter

Man, where did all this talk of Youths dropping out come from? Whats wrong there?

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I presume Mick Wallace has less pocket money than before.

Was he still really bankrolling them as much as before?

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Originally Posted by Partizan

Salthill and Mervue will definitely not be in the LOI next season. I spoke to top officials at both clubs and they are pulling the plug. The Galway FC saga has degenerated into a farce and its highly unlikely that will go ahead. Wexford's position in the League next year is in doubt as well. Last Friday in the RSC, I had a chat with a Youths fan and he told me that they will not be around next March when the 2014 season kicks off.

So that leaves 5 at the moment.

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Then what is the point of them recruiting a manager within the next month or so?

Galway FC is going ahead 100%.

The players of Mervue and Salthill have already been told their clubs will not be participating in the senior league for the 2014 season.








If mervue do get promoted, Galway FC have made a DVD to show that they are capable of taking their place in the premier league. ;)

Lest anyone think we're talking a crazy hypothetical, if Mervue beat Longford this weekend, they'd only be a point outside the playoff places with two to play. Mervue play Cobh at home and Youths away, both winnable. Longford play Youths at home and then the (presumably) celebrating Athlone away. Waterford could conceivably slip too. It really isn't that unlikely that Mervue could overtake one of them.

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Originally Posted by NeverFeltBetter

Was he still really bankrolling them as much as before?

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I doubt it but, in theory at least, that could explain their mooted demise. It's not beyond belief that they've been a listing, slow puncture of a club the last season or two. I hope they do survive (and see no reason they shouldn't).

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Originally Posted by Terry

Then what is the point of them recruiting a manager within the next month or so?

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To be fair, and I'm not referring to Galway specifically here at all, a lot of very stupid people have made a lot of very stupid decisions all around this league over the years. Prematurely appointing a manager wouldn't be anywhere near the top of a list of farcical events.

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Originally Posted by harps1954

Finally, someone mentioned above about having a one-Division top flight of 12 clubs (as it is now) and regional Divisions below it where clubs could play in a 'A' League type championship whereby clubs could play their way up to the LOI. Isn't that what happened with Salthill and Mervue and this is how they find themselves in the LOI. What happens if the same happened again and we get three clubs from the one City playing in the LOI. Galway couldn's sustain it. What if another club from Limerick were to work their way up - could Limerick sustain two senior clubs. What about another club in Waterford or in Sligo or Donegal? These counties are doing well to try to keep one senior club alive. Or what if another one or two Dublin clubs appeared on the horizon and worked their way up through the regional leagues? You could have a one Division LOI with 75% of the clubs coming from Dublin (or within a 40 or 50 miles radius) and the other 2 or 3 clubs coming from Derry, Limerick and Cork. Is that what we really want.

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Yeah, it is how Salthill and Mervue found themselves playing in the LoI. The solution here is simple enough - licencing that takes into account if a region is already represented by a club. Any clubs wanting to join an 'A' league type championship should have to apply for a licence. If a club applies from any of the areas you mentioned, the application would most likely be rejected. If it's from an area without a club e.g. Castlebar, Tullamore or Carlow, applications would more likely be successful.

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Originally Posted by legendz

Yeah, it is how Salthill and Mervue found themselves playing in the LoI. The solution here is simple enough - licencing that takes into account if a region is already represented by a club. Any clubs wanting to join an 'A' league type championship should have to apply for a licence. If a club applies from any of the areas you mentioned, the application would most likely be rejected. If it's from an area without a club e.g. Castlebar, Tullamore or Carlow, applications would more likely be successful.

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I think that allows for a dangerous amount of fudge from the FAI. The rules should be clear, transparent, and non-negotiable. Sure, there'll be some casualties, but it'll be better for the league in the long run.

Ultimately, the top division in football should be for the best teams. The FAI should do everything possible with licensing and financial regulation to make sure that every club is run sustainably and within their means, but if the top ten teams in the country are from Dublin or Cork or the midlands or wherever, they should all be in the top division. I doubt people in Germany were stressing last season that there were no teams from the former East Germany or Berlin in the top flight.

Is it difficult to bring clarity to a rule about representation from a region? Criteria to be met I'd imagine would be being financially viable for the club, facilities, is there a place for another club from the area in terms of game development and possibly giving more players an opportunity to play at a higher level. I'm not really looking to get into this so I'll leave it there. I was only responding to someelse's concern about too many clubs from one area and where an area could sustain another club.
With there being debate on the next Ireland manager and the development of the game in this country, one thing I always look at is regions without a club. It's not solely about having more teams in the league. LoI clubs have a huge part to play in the development of the game in this country. A club can be the focal point of the game in their areas and organise soccer camps etc. and work within their communities.
Is it difficult to bring clarity to a rule about representation from a region? Criteria to be met I'd imagine would be being financially viable for the club, facilities, is there a place for another club from the area in terms of game development and possibly giving more players an opportunity to play at a higher level. I'm not really looking to get into this so I'll leave it there. I was only responding to someelse's concern about too many clubs from one area and where an area could sustain another club.
With there being debate on the next Ireland manager and the development of the game in this country, one thing I always look at is regions without a club. It's not solely about having more teams in the league. LoI clubs have a huge part to play in the development of the game in this country. A club can be the focal point of the game in their areas and organize soccer camps etc. and work within their communities.

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Originally Posted by sadloserkid

To be fair, and I'm not referring to Galway specifically here at all, a lot of very stupid people have made a lot of very stupid decisions all around this league over the years. Prematurely appointing a manager wouldn't be anywhere near the top of a list of farcical events.

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I agree with you, in fact your probably being polite there, but there will be nothing premature about it, as it is well known already in the Galway footballing circles that the FAI have told them that Galway FC has the all clear to get ready for the 2014 season ahead.

Also, just to add to that, there is a rumour floating around that it will be a 16-18 league next season with no first division as there was a lack of takers on the expression of interest coupled with so many teams dropping out of the league.

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Originally Posted by Macy

I'd assume that shels would survive relegation again, but notwithstanding the issues of changing relegation criteria at this stage and the possible implications of that, there'd have to be doubts about bohs surviving relegation. So then we're down to 18 senior clubs.

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Like changing to one division wont have any implications on changing relegation? 18/16 team league or 10+8 seem the only options left. Don't want to suggest a 8+8 lol. I would like to see a A Championship style division below the Premier division. The u19 league has top flight and two regional leagues below, why cant senior football?

23 u19 teams! 10 team premier league and 7+6 regional leagues.

Since 2000 how times has the premier league changed the amount of teams in it?

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Originally Posted by peadar1987

Ultimately, the top division in football should be for the best teams. .

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Or clubs who stay up by "default" season after season.

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Originally Posted by Sam_Heggy

Or clubs who stay up by "default" season after season.

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Hey, if a club doesn't exist any more, they can't be better than us, can they?! ;)

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Originally Posted by citybone

Like changing to one division wont have any implications on changing relegation?

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It will have implications, just different ones. None that would put clubs in jeopardy, like relegating more would! Realistically, you'd have to put 4th from bottom in a play off, with the winner of the 2nd/ 3rd playoff from the first as well.

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Originally Posted by citybone

18/16 team league or 10+8 seem the only options left. Don't want to suggest a 8+8 lol. I would like to see a A Championship style division below the Premier division. The u19 league has top flight and two regional leagues below, why cant senior football?

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We can't get clubs to apply to the current first - I'm not seeing where the clubs are going to come from for regional leagues. Or rather enough regional leagues to really make a difference on costs.

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Originally Posted by Macy

We can't get clubs to apply to the current first - I'm not seeing where the clubs are going to come from for regional leagues. Or rather enough regional leagues to really make a difference on costs.

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That's a fair point unfortunately. There's more a chance of the Kerry hurlers playing in the Munster Championship that than an 'A' league coming back! It's a fair enough point though to express a wish to see it but unfortunately as said, it's not likely. With the U19 league and possible single division at senior level, should consideration be given to a return of an 'A' type league? If the premier becomes a single division of 18, an 'A' type league with 3 regional leagues would have 6 teams in each where players out of the U19's could gain experience for a number of years before progressing to senior level. If a number of first team intermediate/junior clubs joined, all the better to give these teams an option to play at a regional level. It could provide the competition to keep the teams at the foot of the Premier honest with an end of season play-off between the team bottom in the premier and the highest first teams from each of the 3 regional leagues. All highly unlikely of course. It'll be interesting to see how the league shapes up next year.

I think that if the fai are going to maintain the 1st division reserve teams should be added, it doesnt look like any new clubs are going to join so 1/3 reserve sides would make a decent short term solution. I know the crowds wont be great but would likely be better than salthill and mervues attendances lately

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Originally Posted by East stand hoop

I think that if the fai are going to maintain the 1st division reserve teams should be added, it doesnt look like any new clubs are going to join so 1/3 reserve sides would make a decent short term solution. I know the crowds wont be great but would likely be better than salthill and mervues attendances lately

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It really won't make a decent short term solution, except give the league numbers. How would promotion work? Top 1st team promoted, and 2nd and 3rd placed first team in the playoff? Or would there be no promotion at all if the top teams are reserve teams? How would the 1st team clubs be able to market themselves, especially if the reserve teams turn out to be better or competitive?

In Spain, the B team can never play in the same league as the first team, so if Barcelona B won the Segunda Division the next highest team would take their spot, and similarly if Barca were relegated the B team would have to drop to the third tier, although that obviously wouldn't apply in Ireland and the club would need to be replaced or change to an uneven number of teams.

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Originally Posted by Sean South

Since 2000 how times has the premier league changed the amount of teams in it?

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Even though rhetorical here you go

2000/01 - 12 team - 2 relegated (PD team won play off)
2001/02 - 12 team - 3 relegated (PD team won play off)
2002/03 - 10 team - 1 relegated (PD team won play off)
2003 - 10 team - 1 relegated (PD team won play off)
2004 - 10 team - 1 relegated (no play off)
2005 - 12 team - 2 relegated (inc PD team who lost play off)
2006 - 12 team - 1 team folded, Waterford lost play off but stayed up for licensing reasons
2007 - 12 team - 2 relegated (inc PD team who lost play off)
2008 - 12 team - 3 relegated (no play off)
2009 - 10 team - PD team won play off, Bray relegated but stayed up for licensing reasons
2010 - 10 team - 2 PD teams stayed up via play offs, Drogheda relegated but stayed up for licensing reasons
2011 - 10 team - 1 team relegated (who then folded)
2012 - 12 team - 1 team folded, PD team won play off

The last time teams dropped from PD and played in 1st the following season was Harps and UCD in 2008-09 (Cobh also relegated but dropped to A league)

If we resort to reserve teams, I honestly think I'd completely lose interest. It's depressing enough as it is. All well and good for the bigger Premier teams to have the 12 team Premier and not care about the First division, but I'd guarantee a few changes in opinion if some of those clubs were subjected to this farce for a year of two.

Are you more interested in watching the oppisition than Harps?

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Originally Posted by nigel-harps1954

If we resort to reserve teams, I honestly think I'd completely lose interest. It's depressing enough as it is. All well and good for the bigger Premier teams to have the 12 team Premier and not care about the First division, but I'd guarantee a few changes in opinion if some of those clubs were subjected to this farce for a year of two.

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Well, we would be subjected to it. Albeit with our reserve teams...

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Originally Posted by Sean South

Are you more interested in watching the oppisition than Harps?

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Are you only interested in annoying people? Playing the same 7 teams over and over again is pointless and dull. The First division is just horrible to be a part of at the minute.

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Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin

In Spain, the B team can never play in the same league as the first team, so if Barcelona B won the Segunda Division the next highest team would take their spot, and similarly if Barca were relegated the B team would have to drop to the third tier, although that obviously wouldn't apply in Ireland and the club would need to be replaced or change to an uneven number of teams.

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Thanks, you made my point for me!

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Originally Posted by nigel-harps1954

Are you only interested in annoying people? Playing the same 7 teams over and over again is pointless and dull. The First division is just horrible to be a part of at the minute.

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When it's not the top division, it's out of the limelight and these situations don't get much attention. It's a reason to have a second tier of some form if the Premier does expand. B teams and developing clubs can progress out of the limelight at that level. If a team in the Premier possibly can't sustain their status, if there's a number of teams operating a level below, there's the opportunity for a club to replace them. If a single Premier division loses a club or two, it'll affect the integrity of the league if clubs aren't there to come in. It'll be a big step for an intermediate/junior club to go straight in to the top flight.

I don't think many Premier clubs can field a B team in the first division. Part of the reason for scrapping the A Championship is some Premier clubs found it a drain on resources/finances to have to field a second team. Would 3 regional leagues at that level be more manageable?

Premier

St Patrick's Athletic

Dundalk

Sligo Rovers

Derry City

Shamrock Rovers

Cork City

Drogheda United

Limerick

UCD

Bohemians

Bray Wanderers

Shelbourne

Athlone Town

Longford Town

Waterford United

Galway FC

Wexford Youths

Finn Harps

East	North&West	South
St Patrick's Athletic A	Sligo Rovers A	Cork City A
Dundalk A	Derry City A	Limerick A
Shamrock Rovers A	Athlone Town A	Waterford United A
Drogheda United A	Longford Town A	Bray Wanderers A
UCD A	Galway FC A	Waterford United A
Shelbourne A	Finn Harps A	Wexford Youths A
Carlow FC	Fanad Utd	Cobh Ramblers
Tullamore Town	Castlebar Celtic	Tralee Dynamos

The above is obviously unlikely to happen but it's simply one suggestion of a direction the league could take with the set-up of the regionalised second tier possibly used at U19 and U17 levels.

So, will Mervue's excellent form force a re-think on their part, or is it still full steam ahead for Galway FC?

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Originally Posted by culloty82

So, will Mervue's excellent form force a re-think on their part, or is it still full steam ahead for Galway FC?

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Neither Mervue nor Salthill's memberships have any interest in senior LOI football. Both clubs have been told they will not be competing in the LOI whatever happens.

What happens in the league will have no bearing on anything imo.

The only driver behind their current involvement seems to me to be the personal ambitions of certain people and the political advantages of others in the FAI of keeping the aforementioned happy. Imo, allegedly, etc, etc.

Full steam ahead for Galway FC

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Originally Posted by nigel-harps1954

Are you only interested in annoying people? Playing the same 7 teams over and over again is pointless and dull. The First division is just horrible to be a part of at the minute.

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Why would that annoy you? Just asking a question. Most of the football "loving" public seem more interested in the oppisition then their own clubs here. "Ah sure it's only Harps" and then stay at home. I don't understand that attitude myself, if you're a supporter then support your club.

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Originally Posted by Sean South

Why would that annoy you? Just asking a question. Most of the football "loving" public seem more interested in the oppisition then their own clubs here. "Ah sure it's only Harps" and then stay at home. I don't understand that attitude myself, if you're a supporter then support your club.

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I agree but not everybody can tolerate that muck every week.

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Originally Posted by Sean South

Why would that annoy you? Just asking a question. Most of the football "loving" public seem more interested in the oppisition then their own clubs here. "Ah sure it's only Harps" and then stay at home. I don't understand that attitude myself, if you're a supporter then support your club.

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Are you being serious? If the First Division was reduced to two teams, would you still apply the same logic?

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Originally Posted by deiseach

Are you being serious? If the First Division was reduced to two teams, would you still apply the same logic?

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I wonder would Sean South turn up to watch Sligo against Sligo reserves?

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Originally Posted by deiseach

Are you being serious? If the First Division was reduced to two teams, would you still apply the same logic?

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There would never be a league of just two teams so your argument is idiotic at best.

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Originally Posted by peadar1987

I wonder would Sean South turn up to watch Sligo against Sligo reserves?

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More idiotic nonsense although I have been to friendlies between Rovers vs Rovers "select". Other then a meaningless friendly that scenario wouldn't happen. Keep to the fantasy posts on how to improve the "league" it's what you do best.

Not sure what will happen with the LOI structure for next season but I do know if Bray remain rooted to the bottom of the premier Division they will not go down. It is a weird Gypsy curse (not sure if its on them or other clubs) or something but trust me they will survive, they just always do.:D

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Originally Posted by Sean South

There would never be a league of just two teams so your argument is idiotic at best.


More idiotic nonsense although I have been to friendlies between Rovers vs Rovers "select". Other then a meaningless friendly that scenario wouldn't happen. Keep to the fantasy posts on how to improve the "league" it's what you do best.

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The point is that you seem to think that you are somehow negligent as a fan if you express dismay at being in an eight-team division. I'm trying to establish how small a division would have to become before you might agree that it is too small. It doesn't look like I'm going to get an answer.

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Originally Posted by marinobohs

Not sure what will happen with the LOI structure for next season but I do know if Bray remain rooted to the bottom of the premier Division they will not go down. It is a weird Gypsy curse (not sure if its on them or other clubs) or something but trust me they will survive, they just always do.:D

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See peadar1987's sig :D

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Originally Posted by deiseach

The point is that you seem to think that you are somehow negligent as a fan if you express dismay at being in an eight-team division. I'm trying to establish how small a division would have to become before you might agree that it is too small. It doesn't look like I'm going to get an answer.

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I think 8 teams league is to small. But my original point that you quoated me on wasn't about the size of the league, it was about fans picking and choosing games because of the oppisition.

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Originally Posted by Sean South

I think 8 teams league is to small. But my original point that you quoated me on wasn't about the size of the league, it was about fans picking and choosing games because of the oppisition.

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But the point that you were replying to was by nigel-harps1954 where he was saying that every fan has their limit, his being subjected to regularly watching reserve teams. Do you have no limit?

I assume I have a limit but I don't know as you won't know till you reach it, and I've endured some depressing times supporting my club over the years. If we ended up in a league playing against reserve sides I'd still be there. I'd say good chunk of the people on message boards like this would be there too if their team was in that position.

There's a reason I didn't respond to him deiseach.

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Originally Posted by Sean South

If we ended up in a league playing against reserve sides I'd still be there. I'd say good chunk of the people on message boards like this would be there too if their team was in that position.

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Fair enough.