Printable View
I don't think that episode is online any longer, unfortunately.Quote:
Originally Posted by BonnieShels
Another thing; why do so many media hacks and the likes of Arlene Foster assume that Sinn Féin are bluffing on the call for a border poll? I think they're deadly serious and are up for the challenge. It's a debate to which I'm looking forward as they advance more solid arguments and proposals in the near future.
"PM welcomes united Ireland 'rejection'": http://www.u.tv/News/PM-welcomes-uni...a-0409e1013a10
Whether or not tensions exist due to the flag issue, a border poll debate will always prove contentious and provocative, so I don't see why the pre-existence of deep-rooted tensions (that have long existed and will continue to do so well into the future) should be used a valid reason to postpone talk of it.Quote:
The British and Irish governments have expressed the view that the time is not right for a border poll to be held, especially as tensions remain over the policy regarding the flying of the Union flag.
But Sinn Féin have continued to campaign for the public to get to vote on the future of Northern Ireland and whether or not it should remain part of the United Kingdom.
The DUP, who have suggested "calling their bluff" on the issue, made David Cameron aware of the findings of a BBC Spotlight survey during Prime Minister's Questions on Wednesday.
"I sometimes try and avoid opinion polls, so I haven't seen that one," Mr Cameron told DUP Lagan Valley MP Jeffrey Donaldson and the House of Commons.
"But it looks like one that will lift the spirits of almost everyone in this House, because we believe in a United Kingdom and we believe in Northern Ireland being part of that United Kingdom."
The egos have landed.
Cracks deepen between Oor Willie and Footie over protests.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-21366740
I'm certainly no PSF strategist, but they are calling for a Poll now - would they not have been better advancing more solid arguments and proposals (we've had nothing but fluffy old rhetoric from them so far) before seeking a Poll?Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyInvincible
Isn't the purpose of the Ulster People's Forum to, well, y'know like, prevent further splits within unionism/loyalism?...Quote:
Originally Posted by Not Brazil
Well, they've gotten people talking at least. Although I don't see why they'd just throw themselves in at the deep end without any oxygen. I see a new website has been set up to advance the case: http://unitingireland.ie/Quote:
Originally Posted by Not Brazil
Haven't had a detailed look through it yet though.
Don't really know what it's purpose is - I thought it was more like a "self help" group, formed by "da peeeple", for "da peeeple" to deal with their paranoia issues.Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyInvincible
Check out this first draft of his classic 'Death of a Nationalist':Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny Invincible
Then one hot day when the Field was rank
With Buckfast in the grass the angry Prods
Invaded the Garvaghy; I ducked through barricades
To a coarse croaking that I had not heard
Before. The air was thick with a Lambeg chorus.
Right down the gross-bellied Prods were marching
On roads; their bull necks pulsed like sails. Some hopped:
The flute and accordion were obscene threats. Some sat
Poised like mud grenades, their blunt heads farting.
I sickened, turned, and ran. The great slime kings
Were gathered there for vengeance and I knew
That if I dipped my hand the Apprentice Boys would clutch it...:p
I doubt it. But let's see details of his new revamping if you have them. Is it a two-part federation? Or one of four? Or a merger with the lost city of Atlantis?Quote:
but the phrasing, "NI to be joined with the Irish Republic", might imply that NI was to be subsumed into the already-existing state south of the border. Maybe, maybe not... But perhaps people would look at the notion differently if the idea of a completely new, revamped united Irish state was proposed?
Basically because Arlene, Noel and the dogs in the street know that the Brit Govt. isn't going to call a poll when recent opinion surveys show so little support for a change. So the Shinners don't need to back down on the issue and can just go on blaming Westminster.Quote:
Another thing; why do so many media hacks and the likes of Arlene Foster assume that Sinn Féin are bluffing on the call for a border poll? I think they're deadly serious and are up for the challenge
The questions seemed fair enough to me. On the border poll, it's two pretty straightforward alternatives.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonnie Shels
The hacks shouting at each other isn't so edifying, but sure we're used to them by now?
Hardly. They used the same largely predictable preamble that's been associated with every election and opinion poll for 40 years.Quote:
That they used phraseology last used in the 70s in the setting of the survey shows the fear that was there within the BBC that there may have been a different result
Look- if the BBC were worried about the result- and why would they be, controversy helps ratings- they wouldn't have held it in the first place.
I thought Noel made every reasonable effort to shut her up, as he did with Gerry and Danny. Anyway, less of the picking on people from the countryside. That's my job.Quote:
I'm still so angry at Noel Thompson for ignoring the obvious bigotry of the bumpkin Foster last night
I completely forgot I had said I would track down some Bumpkin-bigotry. I'll aim to resolve this over the weekend.
Hehe, is this a Freudian slip on the Statement of Persons Nominated for the upcoming Mid-Ulster by-election?:
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-QFQpQ7-VZm...al+parties.jpg
More seriously, however, in light of Sinn Féin putting Francie Molloy forward, Nigel Lutton is certainly an interesting choice as the agreed unionist candidate. Of course, he is a cousin of the DUP's David Simpson and his former-RUC reservist father was shot dead by the IRA in 1979. In 2007, David Simpson, whilst protected by parliamentary privilege in the House of Commons, named Francie Molloy as having been involved in the killing. Molloy naturally denied any such involvement and subsequently challenged anyone to make such a claim outside the British parliament; the implication being that he would sue them. No further accusations were forthcoming. Nevertheless, the choice of Lutton appears to be an attempt to ensure not only that the plight of victims of the Troubles will be highlighted via the campaign - which is fair enough - but also that the death of Lutton's father will feature prominently despite an absence of evidence to incriminate Molloy, perhaps in order to stoke the dormant unionist vote.
Not necessarily. Sinn Fein politicians accused of IRA membership or other crimes don't always sue following denial, whether because of the cost or worried what further publicity might reveal.Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyInvincible
Unionists can't win- their combined vote in 2010 was 33%- so it's basically a stunt to annoy SF. Even though the Unionist vote will likely fall from that figure.Quote:
Nevertheless, the choice of Lutton appears to be an attempt to ensure not only that the plight of victims of the Troubles will be highlighted via the campaign - which is fair enough - but also that the death of Lutton's father will feature prominently despite an absence of evidence to incriminate Molloy, perhaps in order to stoke the dormant unionist vote
Still, if Francie and Patsy are worried, they could always bring in Keef Gillespie as a Nationalist Unity candidate.
Maybe so, although it's important to remember that nobody has repeated the claim outside of the protective parliamentary bubble.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gather round
Ha, indeed. What did you make of his media trolling?Quote:
Still, if Francie and Patsy are worried, they could always bring in Keef Gillespie as a Nationalist Unity candidate.
Like other enthusiasts for abolishing the NI team, he's either a bored sh*t-stirrer, daydreaming Shinner or dim enough to think that merging two weak football teams makes one much stronger basically by definition.
Sorry, not giving ye much new insight there...
'Jamie Bryson: UVF were not terrorists': http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/hea...ists-1-4827410
Bizarre double standard.Quote:
Ulster People’s Forum chair Jamie Bryson has caused outrage after claiming the UVF were not terrorists.
The prominent flags protestor, when challenged on the issue on Twitter on Monday night said he did not see loyalists as terrorists.
In a number of posts on his official account Mr Bryson said: “Loyalists were not terrorists. The IRA were the terrorists.” He then added: “I would not view the UVF as terrorists no.”
Twitter users expressed their disgust at the view, with some calling the Bangor man “scum”, “attention-seeking”, and one user saying “I almost feel sorry for you.”
Another user queried: “So those loyalists that murdered innocent Catholic civilians weren’t terrorists Jamie?”
Media commentator Alex Kane quoted Mr Bryson on Twitter, adding: “Try telling that to their victims and the families of their victims.”
There is dangerous stupidity in this world, from all walks of life.
Replicated by those, some of whom sit in Government in Northern Ireland, who believe that the Provos were not terrorists, but that Loyalist paramiliary organisations (eg, the UVF) were.Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyInvincible
Is this really that surprising? Idealogues on both sides will always see their side as the "good" side and the other as the "bad" side.
one mans terrorist is anothers freedom fighter.
to be honest when are the people of northern ireland going to wake up and stand up to the politicans that they deal with on todays issues, education, law and order, support for the sick, elderley and vunerable in society, question then on what jobs initiative they have and how they implement it, how that 14 or 16 year old bum on the street is going to get a job, an economy where 60% of the workforce are civil servants instead of religious & national beliefs because at the end of the days, ideals are all well and good but they dont pay any bills
Messrs Bryson and Frazer have been arrested this morning, and are being questioned by the PSNI about organising and participating in unlawful parades.
Frazer has since been charged and faces three counts of taking part in an unnotified public procession and obstructing traffic in a public place. He's due to appear at Belfast Magistrates Court tomorrow.
So Kia are incurring the wrath of Unionists with their Provo...
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...reaking47.html
That is just fantastic. Honestly the hardest I've laughed in ages.
You gotta love Greg. Taxpayers money really at work there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
However it ain't gonna be called Provo...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-21678741
So if Kia needs a differnet name for the UK and Irish markets, I reckon we should help them out. In Australia we have the Toyota Kluger, maybe Kia could have the Kia Marger created out of the names Gerry and Martin. Less controversial and a great acknowledgement of two great men! :D
Kia Ora is surely the cross-marketing opportunity they've been missing for decades.
Or the Kia Gerrymander to cross the political and cultural divide.Quote:
Originally Posted by gastric
Even simpler solution: keep the Provo name, but only sell it in orange.
I hope Gregory wasn't listening to Morning Ireland around 8am this morning. When the reviewing the papers, the presenter referred to 'the TD for East Derry'.Quote:
Originally Posted by BonnieShels
The Henry Ford school of marketing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eminence Grise
Pure Derry's latest update: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...4862719&type=1
Quote:
REVEALED - FIVE MORE CARS THAT UNIONISTS DIDN’T WANT THE WORLD TO HAVE
Following the DUP’s well documented meltdown at the proposed new Kia ‘Provo’ concept car, we look back through history at five other car projects which failed after complaints from Northern Ireland Unionists.
1996 - The BMW .32 County Series
The usually efficient Germans made a balls of this car branding exercise, when they found themselves getting death threats from Mad Dog Johnny Adair over the naming of their new rural saloon line. He later tried to order one just so he could key it and smash the headlights in with a hammer.
1998 - The Ford Cemtex
This nippy family car was due to roll off the factory floors in the mid 90s until Big Ian Paisley kicked up a fuss in the House of Commons. It was later re-branded and released as the ‘Focus’, but unionists never forgot, owing to the statistically poor sales of this otherwise popular model in East Belfast, especially in green.
2002 - The Peugeot Punishment Beating
A bit of a risqué choice for the French car makers landed them in hot water with NI politicians over this otherwise unassuming large saloon car. It was planned to have blacked out windows, spacious back seats and removable Velcro number plates. Gregory Campbell actually busted a blood vessel in his temples whilst on the phone complaining to them.
2007 - The Vauxhall C’mon The Hoops
Originally planned as a fun, about town vehicle for young professionals, this controversial car was scrapped after the DUP complained to UK consumer council. The prototype was reportedly stolen by joyriders and found burnt out in Creggan.
2013 - The Lamborghini Taig
The classy Italian sports car manufacturer were shocked to find 350 Fleg protestors outside their headquarters at Bolognese, Italy after announcing this new car - forcing them to scrap £100million worth of R&D on the project. The DUP have never forgiven them though, advising members to avoid buying Diablo’s & Gallardo’s in favour of executive Skoda Octavia’s or Volvos.
Red Honda Ulster was the best I've seen so far.
That's superb. Had to steal that one. :pQuote:
Originally Posted by osarusan
You 'like' whore.Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyInvincible
Sometines you have to despair at the cost of democratic processes. At least Bryson will be happy as it will probably get him elected to parliament.
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news...-29116278.html
The chief constable's comments are somewhat odd. Perhaps they're in line with the official mentality of "normalisation" of society north of the border, but in a perverse, warped sort of way, it's as if he's normalising or legitimising certain types of disorder or crime - those that "matter" or occur in a "normal" society - whilst distinguishing or stigmatising others as "abnormal", or as a "waste" of resources - those from which people perhaps "should have moved on" - simply because he disagrees with the sentiment behind them or personally feels they shouldn't matter. Clearly, they do still matter to many people, as demonstrated by the fervency and longevity of the flag protests. Not that I necessarily agree with the sentiment behind the flag protests myself either, but it just seems a peculiar, if not false, or agenda-driven even, distinction to make. The police are there to deal with all types of crime and disorder, whatever the reasons for such disturbances may be.Quote:
"£11 million of that has been new money that we have had to provide, the rest has been (the cost of) police officers' time not being spent on the things that matter," Mr Baggott explained afterwards.
"I think that it's a sadness. That money should have been spent on tackling drug dealers, it should have been spent on officers patrolling in the heart of our most disadvantaged areas, it should have been spent on people trafficking, it should have been spent on new technology, it's been wasted dealing with disturbances and disorder that should never have happened in the first place."
From the perspective of a chief constable, why should flag protesting be stigmatised but drug dealing not, for example? The implication is that the flag issue isn't or shouldn't be a "real" or "serious" issue. There are social reasons for the occurrence of both, however; the flag protests did not erupt out of an alien bubble. I mean, for the sake of argument, you could attempt to arbitrarily isolate drug dealing or some other declared social ill in a similar vein and argue it's a waste of police resources/shouldn't matter because people should know better than to be dealing/purchasing/using drugs or whatever. It doesn't take away from the fact it remains a genuine issue, by the very fact of its existence, with which the police are obliged to deal with by law. Who is a chief constable to tell citizens which issues should and shouldn't matter to them? If anything, at least the peaceful elements of flag protesting adhered to democratic principles.
I'm not sure how coherently all that reads as I wrote it in a bit of a rush before work this morn prior to this edit, nor am I attempting to justify certain types of crime over others, but I think it gets my point across; just thought it an interesting observation.
And is Bryson actually planning on standing for election?!
Francie Molloy unsurprisingly wins Mid-Ulster by-election.
http://www.rte.ie/news/2013/0308/375...r-by-election/
No luck for the Social Democratic and Unionist Party candidate then...Quote:
Originally Posted by BonnieShels
'British Legion rejects Belfast cenotaph flags proposal': http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-22200174
Quote:
The Royal British Legion has said it is opposed to moves to fly the union flag at Belfast City Hall's cenotaph every day of the year.
In a statement, the legion said its Garden of Remembrance was "sacrosanct" and it did not want it politicised.
The legion was responding to a DUP proposal to fly the flag at the cenotaph daily.
The BBC revealed on Wednesday that the legion was among interest groups with concerns about that proposal.
Last December, the council voted to restrict the flying of the union flag over city hall to designated dates.
This followed an equality impact assessment. But loyalists were outraged by the move and weeks of street protests, sometimes violent, ensued. A number of police officers were hurt during disturbances, several politicians received death threats and homes and property were damaged.
In a statement on Thursday, the British Legion said it did not want its Garden of Remembrance being drawn into the flags debate.
"As the nation's custodian of remembrance, the legion is committed to helping everyone understand the importance of remembrance, so those sacrifices are never forgotten," the statement said.
"Remembrance of all who have fallen should unite, not divide. It is sacrosanct and should not be politicised in any way.
"We would therefore oppose the Garden of Remembrance becoming involved in the flag debate for that reason and, in the interests of keeping remembrance free of controversy, cannot agree to any change to the current policy of flag-flying at the cenotaph."
Next we will be getting a statement from the KKK condemning the DUP + Union Flag dogmatists over their extreme politics, inflexible attitudes and anti-social actions.
'Protestant Coalition emerges as NI's newest political party': http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-22279352
Bizarre stuff.Quote:
A new political party has been registered in Northern Ireland.
The Protestant Coalition's website states it is an "anti-politics, political party" whose priority is "the empowerment of the PUL (Protestant Unionist Loyalist) community".
The party's electoral profile lists the party's leader as James Dowson.
Mr Dowson, a former British National Party fundraiser, is currently on bail over protests connected to the union flag's status at Belfast City Hall.
On its website the coalition said it has "no political ambitions" and is constituted for three years.