Printable View
Gallagher was better prepared this morning, - got very indignant at times and tried to smear this Glenna Lynch Woman until she phoned up and started posing questions herself! Didn't do himself any favours I thought, although it wasn't the PR disaster that was the frontline last night.
For me, it gets out into the public domain that he was a fundraiser for FF, that might be enough to ensure he does not win. Might.
That went well then. Smeared the woman as a political hack, who then phoned in. He didn't want to speak to her and tried to withdraw the remarks. And then he still couldn't answer her questions!Quote:
Originally Posted by thebooboys
It could always be that Michael D has no skeletons to expose. Gallagher continues to make the assertion that legitimate questions are negative campaigning. He keeps changing his story, hence he keeps getting questioned. What questions do you think RTE should've asked Higgins or Norris?Quote:
Originally Posted by thebooboys
The frontline is an awful awful format, and not fit to be called a replacement for Questions and Answers.
I thought he made a fool of himself again, when he is flustered he really donest make much sense, he just turns into the proto type ff bully boyQuote:
Originally Posted by Real ale Madrid
The Indo's take on it
http://www.independent.ie/national-n...k-2915594.html
Hilarious that any questions are now seen as 'hatchet jobs'
"I am not casting aspersions on this woman … but"
"I will not run a negative campaign … but"
They say Gallagher was ambushed last night, McGuinness' gun looked real but wasn't loaded. It was more of a sting than an ambush.
Tell me where I said Kenny was Pro Michael D?? My criticism was of the audience who were notably endeared by Norris and Michael D. The only time that baying mob didn't have the daggers out were when they were engaged in vociferous applause for those 2 candidates. Norris in particular.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodge
What questions do you think RTE should've asked Higgins or Norris?
Well RTE didnt ask any questions last night if we are to believe what Kenny said, they were questions posed by the audience.
That in itself is problematic for me however, as the bias of the audience was clear for all to see.
I have no problem with Gallagher being "outed" if thats the case. While last night was "great entertainment" I just found the audience participation, hissing and booing etc uncalled for
Why did you say "shame on RTÉ" then? Should they have vetted the audience in advance?Quote:
Originally Posted by thebooboys
And good job on sidestepping Macy's question.
Yes, shame on RTE for the format of the "debate". Since when is heckling/booing and jeering by one candidates supporters tolerated?? Take off the blinkers.
As a matter of fact when thatfemale member of the audience was quizzing Mr. Gallagher, and doing a very good job of it at that she was interrupted by the audience, then Michael D and Norris before she could fully finish. If the rest of them could have shut up for another few moments she would have nailed him more full than transpired I think.
Secondly I didnt side step any question. He asked what should RTE have asked some other candidates so?? I replied, RTE were supposedly not the source of any of the questions last night.
I'm not an apologist for Sean Gallagher. I'll be the first person here to say he was politically naive. If Gay Mitchell, McGuinness or Michael D were in his position and confronted with a similar situation they would have given a politically expedient retort that he was unaware of the full details etc but would look into them and give a full statement on the Pat Kenny's radio show this morning. He dug a hole for himself. Something he now has to live with.
But you started off by saying "Shame on RTÉ" for the pro-Norris and Higgins bias. You then said that "my criticism was of the audience", not of RTÉ (or, specifically, Kenny) at all and now we're back to "shame on RTE". I'm not entirely sure who you're trying to criticise here.Quote:
Originally Posted by thebooboys
I didn't see the debate, and I'll agree that political debates can get remarkably puerile, but I'm still not entirely sure how you blame RTÉ for the composition and actions of the crowd? For example, if the crowd - however stupid - was a reasonable reflection of the Irish voter, then I don't see how RTÉ can come in for any shame at all.
The format is sound. We've had the Prime Time debate to deal with the candidates taking journalistic questions, this was about letting the people of Ireland ask their own questions. I don't know how RTE vet the audience for Frontline but it all seemed pretty reasonable at times. If you are to blame them for sniggering and guffawing at a Fianna Fail candidate stumbling over a question about an envelope of cash then you haven't been paying attention to Irish society for the past few years.
Gallagher is a fraud and it was shown up tonight. If he's voted in to the Aras it is another nail in the coffin of letting Irish people have any form of say in how this country is run and percieved abroad.
If Gallagher does get in I say bring the Brits back to power, and I'm not talking about McGuinness there
Well its fairly obvious both of ye didnt watch the debate last night. At one stage Pat Kenny himself turned around and criticised the FG(Mitchell) corner so don't give me the bull about the audience being representative of the voting public. It was in no way so. I suggest you watch the debate on the rte player first then comment regarding the harrassment of more than the one candidate. As a matter of fact I think Michael D was also booed at one stage for being reluctant to convey how he would vote on the 2 referenda.
And yes, I reiterate, shame on RTE for the format of the debate last night. They afterall produce the programme. In case thats not clear, that is a clear criticism of the Debate format and the people responsible for allowing it to proceed that way. Sure even the constant clapping re some candidates responses was wasting discussion time.
I watched it all, but I'm unsure what point youa re making. You criticise RTE, then backtrack and criticise the audience before having a go at RTE again. Now it's Kenny's fault, but maybe the audiences too
Make a proper point and we can talk about it. I'd love to know how you figure it was in no way representative of the Irish voting public either, how do you know what the Irish are thinking? Where are you getting your straw poll from? From my Facebook, comments on forums and on Twitter I see that most people agreed with going after Gallagher over his dodgy finances, and thought Mitchell just lost it because his campaign has been so substandard
I haven't exactly hidden that fact for my part anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by thebooboys
Huh? I don't see what this has to do with anything?Quote:
Originally Posted by thebooboys
OK, so by a 3 to 1 margin, you've settled on shame on RTÉ. But I'll ask again - what could they have done about it? Should they have vetted the crowd as they came in, for example?Quote:
Originally Posted by thebooboys
"Constant clapping" a waste of discussion time? Hardly - surely people showing group approval with a point indicates the level of support for it and differentiates it from one person with a view all of his own? A good addition to a discussion, I think.
I listened to the debate and I didn't appreciate the partisan reactions of the audience but Kenny did point out more than a few times, that the audience reaction was partisan. It was a good night for Kenny and RTE.
There is a reluctance to bring Michael D to account, somehow he has avoided being tarnished with the actions of the Labour government as compared to their pre-election policies. He is just associated with the Labour pre-election policies which he not shy to spout about. However his election campaign has reaped a poor response and I can't blame the electorate for that.
It was made very clear at the start of the debate that each candiadate had been allowed to bring 5 supporters and they were all seated in one particular section of the audience. I think an interactive debate with a reactive audience is far more interesting and creates a very different type of pressure for those being questioned. I was pleasantly surprised at how well Pat Kenny seemed to manage the whole thing too.
Yeah, I'm no fan of Kenny but he handled himself and the debate about a million times better than Miriiam O'Callaghan did earlier.
Really don't see how anyone could think the night was 'set up' for any candidate (in a good ro bad way). Tough questions asked of all them. Some handled them better than others. If Higgins had any real skeletons, they'd have absolutely have been out by now. he's been in the top 2 of every poll since the campaign started and its beyiond naive to think that all parties weren't searching for his 'brown envelope/letter for clemency'
He didn't stand for election, wasn't voted in and isn't responsible for the programme of Government. He has been held to account on his record - the difference is that he's always been clear on the answers, which kinda kills the line of questioning. For example, he didn't equivocate on whether he regretted the tax amnesty, when that was put to him during the prime time debate. To be honest, if the record of a 6 month old Labour Government that he isn't a part of is the best that people can come up with, little wonder he hasn't had the same questioning of those that have skeletons waiting to tumble out of the closet.Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
Too early to tell that.Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
Apparently Gallagher has pulled out of a phone-in debate with McGuinness on Northern Sound (Border counties local radio) and has cancelled public engagements for the day - more breaking news in the pipeline? Will be interesting to hear if he fulfills his interview with George Hook on Newstalk later.
Gallagher is on the last word with Matt Cooper this evening - interview pre-recorded this lunchtime afaik.
Avoiding direct contact with the public, in case he digs himself a deeper hole? Seriously, people want this man as president????
:D God I love working here!
He has not criticised the Labour Party for their about turn, neither has he resigned from the party.Quote:
Originally Posted by Macy
I can only presume that if he was a part of the Labour party front bench he would be voting with the Labour party whip.
Why is it an issue? because he his promoting his stance in voting against the bailout as an example of his integrity.
Michael D has made this an issue and I do consider hypocrisy a valid issue to pursue with him and listen to his responses.
You want him questioned on the role you presume he might have had if he'd actually stood for election, on something Labour didn't actually run on (they ran on renegotiation not pulling out, and they've done that!). I really don't think that would have any legs in a presidential campaign, and would be seen as the clutching at straws it is.Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
What a day... nearly there.
True enough, all the Labour rhetoric was reduced to a promise of an unspecified renegotiation of the deal and if you feel even that has been achieved, you are easily pleased.Quote:
Originally Posted by Macy
So we can presume that Michael D's rhetoric when in opposition, was as worthless to the nation as the Labour party's pre-election rhetoric. Any thing a politician uses as a vote getter, as an example of integrity, is fair game to scrutinise and place a real value on.
Does anyone in the right mind think that RTE with their buddies in INM have been in any way fair or decent in this election? The flip flopping on David Norris, the excoriation of Mary Davis to ensure her campaign was destroyed, the ruthless destruction of Martin McGuinness, the sneering at Dana, the turning on Gallagher and the absolute genuflection before one of their luvvies Higgins. Higgins has, for more than a year, has been aiming for the Aras with such self-righteousness that the Irish nation are sure to vote him in. Gay Mitchell has been right on a number of issues and unfortunately he doesn't have the manner to enforce himself - if he were D4, a meeja luvvy or some faux academic, he'd at least have some backing - but he won't get it from FG as he doesn't fit any of those, nor is he a farmer.
But what is far worse, is the wool being pulled over over our eyes. There are 2 major amendments to be voted on, as well as money continuing to be leaked into banks and our country be sold down the Liffey by the latest bunch of crooks. Yet the only discussion is about petty squabbles for a petty position. Down in Libya we have NATO attack a convoy - which was outside of their remit - and the (now) former leader of the country executed by a bunch of loons who have introduced sharia law. Yet we look back and condemn voters who vote for the party in power during a boomtime and the people who worked/were linked with them. Jesus people, we need perspective. I just wish there was a russian option on the ballot of "none of the above".
Here's perspective for you: I couldn't care less about what happened to Gaddafi, or what will happen to Libya, the whole country could sink into the earth never to be seen again and it wouldn't make a shred of difference to my life.
So yeah, I'll stick to criticising Fianna Fail supporters who wouldn't listen to those of us that were saner/more intelligent than them in the last election (the ones before that it was obvious to us right minded folk that Bertie was a criminal and his cronies were too mind). I also find it hilarious that anyone protecting Fianna Fail supporters criticises anyone for not seeing the bigger picture, that party and it's supporters are the very epitome of 'Look after yourself'.
I'm personally not going to be happy until Fianna Fail as a party is out of existence and it's supporters issue public apologies to everyone they meet on the street for the next 20 years.
As for the two referendums, I'm voting no to both because I have control of my senses and can actually look these matters up myself and make a decision without having my hand held, I suggest you do likewise.
Jebus, I have never liked FF as a party, though I know and have known good FF'ers. But if you think getting rid of the party is the cure for the country's ills then the media have done a great job. FG are as bad, Labour are as bad. Look at it simply like this - how many children or relatives of former TD's are sitting in the Dail now. They are all the same. I've sat down with these people and they are all alike, they're the kind of people who order a round then realise they left their wallet in the car, ask you to shout them and then you're too embarassed to ever ask for it back. Yet you say nothing as you're too ashamed of being stitched up and too stupid to walk away. That is the Irish population.Quote:
Originally Posted by jebus
I'm not protecting FF supporters and you don't see the bigger picture - cut off FF heads and 2 grow back, because you have FG and Labour in their place. Why is it the parties who were elected on a protest vote to stop feeding money to French and German idiot banks who are the epitome of failed capitalism, continue to sell out our country? FF cannot be blamed for FG and Labour allowing their own cronies to profit from Ireland's woes.
For someone having a pop at the media for using this presidential charade to avoid talking about the real issues, you don't half post some waffle Spud
Who are you voting for and why...
Just like the average voter Dodge, you don't dig or read and go by what the latest goldfish news gives you. Read back through the posts and see. I stated the real issues, the obfuscation of the political ruling class and their financial cronies of the real problems and matters in Ireland with the happy help of the media. Simple as that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodge
Oh the candidate I'm supporting isn't going to win. It's all the media's fault for focusing on the issues and not coming up with random stuff to attack those with nothing to hide who haven't been busted rapid. Sure aren't they all the same anyway...
What dummy spitting tosh.
As I suspected. Usual Spud speak.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spudulika
I don't think getting rid of FF will cure this country of it's ills, I don't believe i have ever said that but well done for putting words in my mouth so you can have an argument with yourself.
I do think FF should be held accountable for their rampant greed that has crippled sections of this society. People need to be held accountable for what happened before people can start moving on, FF still being around are a large part of that.
VB going hammer and tongs with this Gallagher yoke. Come on.
InQuote:
Originally Posted by Dodge
stead of being a WUM could you not add to the discussion?
I'm personally not going to be happy until Fianna Fail as a party is out of existence and it's supporters issue public apologies to everyone they meet on the street for the next 20 years.Quote:
Originally Posted by jebus
Fair enough, but going after one party seems a little ott when the current ruling pair are as bad. Again, perspective. FF, in cahoots with the PD's, then Greens, and independents, were let run riot, and the country backed them. If FF came up with a magical solution in the morning to solve all our ills, and won next years election, I have an inkling that the sins of the recent past would be forgotten until the next time the people need a scapegoat. And regardless, blaming politicians for everything only reaches so far. Better to start off with the supposed captains of industry, high ranking civil servants and the dealers who sold Ireland out.
Again, FF behaved badly, as do FG and Labour, better to get them all out than just one.
FG and Labour have been in government for 8 months, after 13 years in opposition to FF. What credible evidence do you have to support the claim that FG and Labour are 'as bad' as what they've replaced?Quote:
Originally Posted by Spudulika
Voters cabn't do aything about captains of industry and pretty much every high ranking civil servant was appointed by FF.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spudulika
Go on then, explain to me how the presidential vote will make this happenQuote:
Again, FF behaved badly, as do FG and Labour, better to get them all out than just one.
And what, exactly, have you contributed to the Presidential vote discussion?Quote:
Originally Posted by Spudulika
They haven't even had one budget yet, how can you possibly make that judgement call?Quote:
Originally Posted by Spudulika
FF were in power for all but 2.5 years since 1987. Politicians are the bosses of the civil and public servants, they set the regulatory regime for captains of industry, they set the regulatory regime of domestic dealers. And for the bulk of our history, those politicians have been FF ones.
Maybe the current Government will fook up and turn out to be no better, but it's far to early to tell. I want FF to die on the basis of what they've continually done to this state over the years, and especially what they've done over the last 10. But I'd settle for the cycle of them only being out of power for one Dail term broken and give other parties a genuine chance to cleanse the apparatus of the state of their malign influence.
But this still has fook all to do with the presidential election. Is this a distracting tactic to shift focus away from Gallagher?