You will never, ever, get a majority of clubs in the league, let alone every club to join together in some sort of protest against the FAI.
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You will never, ever, get a majority of clubs in the league, let alone every club to join together in some sort of protest against the FAI.
Simple solution to this: Proceed with the friendly and limit the capacity to 19,999 tickets. The FAI cannot sanction games with a capacity of over 20,000 without seeking the permission of the third party they have the agreement with apparently...:rolleyes:
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Originally Posted by John Delaney, CEO FAI on the Marion Finnucane show;
I would imagine that reduction in attendance and gate receipts makes the economics untenable?Quote:
Originally Posted by joeSoap
Unless Limerick need 20,000+ to break even...
FAI getting rattled?
"A large amount has been written since Friday about the FAI’s position in relation to friendly matches and in the interests of clarity, the Association wishes to confirm the following:
1) The sole objective of the FAI is to develop, promote and foster the game in Ireland. Any commercial venture entered into by the FAI is designed purely to fund the development of the game at all levels throughout the country. This includes the Airtricity League which is funded by the tune of €5m p.a. for the benefit of all clubs. Any suggestion that our decision was made for reasons other than the good of game is simply untrue.
2) Unlike commercial agents, the FAI is not in the business of profiteering from such games. Any profit the FAI does generate is delivered straight back into the development of the game. One of the reasons why we have entered into an arrangement with a commercial partner in relation to friendly games is to protect and maximise the value of our rights, to benefit the game as a whole. If games were to be organised outside of this arrangement, profit made by any agent would be lost to the game. For example, with one club the Association had agreed a price for a visit, only for an agency in Ireland to offer double the amount. This is inflationary and not in the interests of football since any profit generated by that agent would not be reinvested in the game.
3) Limerick FC are portraying as a certainty that with FAI permission the game would come to Limerick. We are aware that even with FAI permission (which in any case, we are unable to grant), FC Barcelona has not made any decision to come to Limerick. We have spoken to high level officials at the club who have confirmed this and we are also know that international match agents are offering FC Barcelona to other clubs in other countries on the same date, July 31.
4) The FAI has already made clear the reasons why it did not grant permission to Limerick FC to play Barcelona on July 31 because a) the Association has third party commercial agreements which prevent it from granting the game in stadium with a capacity in excess of 15,000 and b) the FAI is in negotiations with FC Barcelona itself in relation to a visit of Aviva Stadium and c) because the Association is obliged to retain ownership of the July 31 date because of Airtricity League fixtures. Limerick FC were aware of all of the above prior to making their announcement on Thursday evening.
5) Under FIFA rules, FAI rules and under the participation agreement which all clubs signed, no club can arrange any match without the prior consent of the national governing body. The clubs were reminded of this in writing in May last year.
6) Under the participation agreement which all clubs signed, the FAI is entitled to enter any commercial agreements which it sees beneficial to the game. The game Limerick FC have referred to would benefit just one club. The FAI is obliged to operate in the interests of the Airtricity League as a whole.
7) Since the sponsorship revenues from the League do not come close to covering the €5m p.a. it costs the FAI to run it, revenues from international matches and club friendly games (e.g. Airticity League XI v Manchester United) are used by the FAI to fund the running of it.
8) It has been suggested that the FAI is not happy to grant friendly games to Airticity League clubs. This is not true. In recent times alone, we have granted permission to Celtic, Newcastle, Liverpool, Wolves, Atletico Madrid, Real Madrid, Hull City and Ipswich Town to play Airtricity League clubs and we will continue to do so.
9) It was suggested in one newspaper that the FAI declined a request from Bohemian FC to play FC Barcelona. This is not true and the club have confirmed that.
10) The manager of Bohemian FC stated in today’s newspapers that if they were to be drawn for a Champions League game on August 4, they would play it regardless. The FAI has already met with Bohemian FC and the other clubs in European competition two weeks ago and at this meeting we explained that if there were two Dublin clubs in European completion on that week, then one game would take place on August 3 and the other on August 5."
Awk, let us dream, will you? :PQuote:
Originally Posted by Lim till i die
Where is the €5m p.a figure coming from?
If we say prize money is €1m and administration(salaries etc) is another €1m, where is this other €3m coming from?
any points i havent remarked on is because it is meaningless rubbish.
Point 2 - yeah right... paying off the costs of financing New Lansdowne is redirecting the funds "straight back into the development of the game" - do they think we're that thick?
Points 3 and 5 - contradictory. Why state point 5 if you stand by point 3?
Point 9 - untrue. Bohs asked the FAI unofficially and were told No. This was on the Bohs mb prior to the Limerick fiasco coming to light.
Point 10 - missing the point entirely. Why schedule Man U vs. League XI on a week where 4 teams could be committed to playing vital Euro ties? Why not use you effing brains for a change and schedule the meaningless friendsly for another week? Oh sorry, right, the cash.
Thats what it all boils down to Delaney, dont even try to pretend otherwise.
FAI - F*ck All Interest.
prize money which was reduced and is being provided by Airtricity.Quote:
Originally Posted by MariborKev
So this is what altruism looks like in the modern age then?...Quote:
Originally Posted by MariborKev
Interesting, seeing as its completely at odds with the line Limerick are pushing.Quote:
3) Limerick FC are portraying as a certainty that with FAI permission the game would come to Limerick. We are aware that even with FAI permission (which in any case, we are unable to grant), FC Barcelona has not made any decision to come to Limerick. We have spoken to high level officials at the club who have confirmed this and we are also know that international match agents are offering FC Barcelona to other clubs in other countries on the same date, July 31.
Still don't see the relevance of 'b)' there. Just looks something like, "Well, we want them for us, so fat chance you're having them if it'll interfere with our negotiations". As for 'a)', that's not quite true either, is it? At least, in the FAI's initial public statement there was no mention of this 15,000 threshold which formed part of these third-party agreements. Although, at least that detail surfaced on a later date.Quote:
4) The FAI has already made clear the reasons why it did not grant permission to Limerick FC to play Barcelona on July 31 because a) the Association has third party commercial agreements which prevent it from granting the game in stadium with a capacity in excess of 15,000 and b) the FAI is in negotiations with FC Barcelona itself in relation to a visit of Aviva Stadium and c) because the Association is obliged to retain ownership of the July 31 date because of Airtricity League fixtures. Limerick FC were aware of all of the above prior to making their announcement on Thursday evening.
Seems fair enough in that Limerick willingly and voluntarily signed up to the participation agreement. It does give the FAI quite a lot of scope and power over the league clubs' affairs, however, which is rather unfortunate. As someone said earlier in the thread, having to sign up to all this crap before you're allowed to even kick a ball is a very sorry state of affairs. I mean, then going on to criticise the game as being beneficial to only one club? Well, so what? Tough luck to the other clubs; at least Limerick had the initiative and gumption to go ahead and attempt to organise something of this magnitude by and for themselves. They don't owe the same duty of care or concern to the other league clubs that the FAI does and it's certainly not the duty of the FAI to impede them were they ever to think outside the box and try and win some legitimate advantage by showing a bit of foresight and positive thinking. Anyway, I thought they were saying a second ago that it would benefit only a third-party agent and that they couldn't envisage Limerick benefiting from such a game at all... :rolleyes:Quote:
6) Under the participation agreement which all clubs signed, the FAI is entitled to enter any commercial agreements which it sees beneficial to the game. The game Limerick FC have referred to would benefit just one club. The FAI is obliged to operate in the interests of the Airtricity League as a whole.
Yeah, actually, the real reason I'm fuming about this game is because it wasn't between combined Manchester United/Arsenal and Chelsea/Liverpool teams!Quote:
7) Since the sponsorship revenues from the League do not come close to covering the 5m p.a. it costs the FAI to run it, revenues from international matches and club friendly games (e.g. Airticity League XI v Manchester United) are used by the FAI to fund the running of it.
But sure all those games would benefit only one club; the club hosting those games. :rolleyes: And there's nothing wrong with that at all. Good luck to them for organising them.Quote:
8) It has been suggested that the FAI is not happy to grant friendly games to Airticity League clubs. This is not true. In recent times alone, we have granted permission to Celtic, Newcastle, Liverpool, Wolves, Atletico Madrid, Real Madrid, Hull City and Ipswich Town to play Airtricity League clubs and we will continue to do so.
Out of interest, when did Atletico Madrid play here? My memory fails me.
This is the most galling thing of all that has occurred this week, in my book, and I've read this "explanation" a few times, but have absolutely no idea what it's supposed to mean. Bohs would play the game regardless? As opposed to what? Dropping out of the Champions League? :confused:Quote:
10) The manager of Bohemian FC stated in todays newspapers that if they were to be drawn for a Champions League game on August 4, they would play it regardless. The FAI has already met with Bohemian FC and the other clubs in European competition two weeks ago and at this meeting we explained that if there were two Dublin clubs in European completion on that week, then one game would take place on August 3 and the other on August 5."
This goes nowhere near getting Delaney off the hook for putting our league champions' competitive European fixture secondary to a meaningless friendly.
Did any one else notice Fran Gavin kept calling Con "Tony"!!!!
Rico imo lost all creditability tonight on MNS he was easily bought by the FAI one cheque to manage in a micky mouse friendly and he becomes delaneys best friend I have lost all respect I ever had for him
Yep, he was also well clued up on the champions league qualifiers - seems bohs only have to win through the round taking place the same week as the manu fixture to qualify for the group stages.Quote:
Originally Posted by shep
Obviously the fai managed to get some concessions in the wc fallout :D
Completely agree with that. Sadlier was the only one with a pair of balls to actually come out and say something negative about the FAI in all of this. And fair play to Con as well for actually asking some tough questions, it's about time someone did!Quote:
Originally Posted by D.24saint
Quote:
Originally Posted by D.24saint
Yeah felt a bit let down by him as well, but we know now he is a tainted man.
Paul Mcgee - he is just a right muppet
Everything else a side, we have learned a lot about the FAI and friendlies in the last few days that we did not know.
1. Is that a third party basically makes the decisions about friendlies, not the FAI.
2. All money must go through the FAI and they can decide what to do with it and where it goes.
3. There is Limited capacity for friendly games or you are interfering with the third party. (I'd love to know what the other stipulations are, cause i'm sure there must be more)
So basically if this whole thing had never happened the FAI would have happily allowed LOI clubs have small friendlies against small clubs (Ipswich, Sunderland, Leyton Orient etc..), with small capacities but when the big boys come to Ireland they want them to themselves for their new stadium.
I love the way Fran Gavin and Richardson for that matter went on about certain procedures when getting friendly games in place even though the FAI followed no procedures themselves. Surely if the FAI had sent Limerick a clear well written letter/fax/e-mail stating all the reasons the game could not go ahead in the first place then none of this would have happened. Instead they send a 3 lined fax basically saying "Airtricity Fixtures on that day, sorry no friendly for ye. That will do ye now run along quietly".
Agree with the lads about Richardson. It absolutely stank of licking the FAI's arses because he is managing the LOI team. And Ski summed himself up "the united game is more important" i believe he said, or something like that anyway, ridiculous comments.
They played Longford, I think it was last year.Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyInvincible
MNS was costed at something like 4 million over 4 years wasn't it? So thats another millQuote:
Originally Posted by MariborKev
Think they might want to invite the Licensing Committee to look at their budget if they need 5million to run this league...
Well I saw them play dundalk.
question - was the existence of this 'third party' made known to the clubs when they signed up to the participation agreement? I'm assuming the agreement is basically a contract, so it would have to make mention of the existence of this group and it's control over friendly matches of a potential particular size? or does the PA basically amount to the clubs saying to the fai 'do what ye want, ye don't need our agreement or consultation regarding anything down the road'? genuinely curious.
Quote:
2) Unlike commercial agents, the FAI is not in the business of profiteering from such games. Any profit the FAI does generate is delivered straight back into the development of the game. One of the reasons why we have entered into an arrangement with a commercial partner in relation to friendly games is to protect and maximise the value of our rights, to benefit the game as a whole. If games were to be organised outside of this arrangement, profit made by any agent would be lost to the game. For example, with one club the Association had agreed a price for a visit, only for an agency in Ireland to offer double the amount. This is inflationary and not in the interests of football since any profit generated by that agent would not be reinvested in the game.
Does the FAI's commercial agent charge less than other commercial agents.
Obviously profit made by any agent is his to keep.
The very same profit the clubs or the FAI make after the agents get their cut, is not lost to the game.
I heard they filled it in with red pen and it was rejected :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Dodge
What was the name of the fai's agent? was in one of the articles.
And more to point which current or former fai staff are lining their own pockets from it?
Good point. Gavin should have been asked why this third party whose existence was admitted by Delaney yesterday is willing to not take any money right out of the game. How very benevolent of this professional agency to forego any fee when working with the FAI.Quote:
Originally Posted by Buile Shuibhne
This whole debate can be boiled down to the FAI saying to the clubs "you signed a document that said we could bend you over and......" anyway, you get the picture. ;)
And until the clubs collectively get well enough organised themselves to organise the proverbial in a brewery, then they are just going to have to bend over and take it. And this, for the short-sighted of you, is EXACTLY where Sadlier's point about small minded petty self-interest comes into play. At times like this, when there is a clear need for the clubs collectively to stand up and push back in a unified manner at the FAI, they can't, because someone, or more likely, a few, will be bought off easier than a child in a sweetshop.
Domestic football is a toy that the FAI keeps at the bottom of the toybox, that they stumble across every once in a while, take it out, mess around with it, then leave it outside getting dirty and wet in the mud. International football is the favourite teddy that they can't be separated from.
Until clubs collectively own the issue making domestic football better themselves, and not only furthering the interests of their own club (see Hairy Bowsie's post for a prime example of the self-interest that has crippled Irish football), then we may as well all bend over when JD comes calling.
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Originally Posted by holidaysong
We can all only speculate as to what this could mean. :oQuote:
Originally Posted by Richard Sadlier
That appears to be exactly the way of it, sadly.Quote:
Originally Posted by shantykelly
Well said. Of course, the FAI don't even have to employ divide-and-rule tactics to govern as they see fit when the clubs are happy enough to do it themselves and shoot themselves in the foot. It's very disillusioning.Quote:
Originally Posted by OneRedArmy
I would sincerely hope that petty personal squabbles wouldn't colour the FAI's future professional/official business, conduct or interaction with Limerick in any substantial way. Small-mindedness seems ingrained in Irish football at all levels, however. You could hear Delaney at it already in the radio interview with Finnucane yesterday. You'd think he was a kid bickering with a class-mate who tripped him up and made him look silly during a playground football game the way he was bitching, for want of a better word, about Limerick's "naivety" and "bringing the game into disrepute a bit".Quote:
Originally Posted by Lim till i die
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodge
Yeah and no mention of all the money they waste with Trap and all that rubbish...........:)
:DQuote:
Originally Posted by DannyInvincible
If John and Fran are still the men at the helm (and shur why wouldn't they be??), then despite Limerick FC being "the best run club in the country"* they will have no hope of getting a licence when next seasons batch are given out. Just you watch.
*There's a free quote for ye from a high ranking FAI official not more than three weeks ago. :rolleyes:
Sure Gavin pretty much made the threat on MNS tonight, something along the lines of we look forward to working with Limerick into the future, hopefully this Limerick....
Limerick should try again and limit the amount of tickets to 19,999. What a complete farce. Selling out the rights of a club to organise who they play against in non competitive fixtures. Absolutely despicableQuote:
Originally Posted by Jofspring
15000 is the latest figure mentioned.Quote:
Originally Posted by HammerNThongs
15000 v Barcelona = Not worth your while I'd imagine.
FAI has clearly sold out every club in the country without informing them. Hence all the fannying that has gone on.
http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2010/0517/limerick.html
Quote:
Originally Posted by FULL TEXT OF LIMERICK FC RESPONSE TO FAI STATEMENT
It's not going away.............
Even if Limerick don't get the game in the end i'm glad Limerick and the press too to a certain extent have stood up to the FAI on certain points they have made. A lot of people in the past would have been too afraid to step on their toes and have just took what the FAI have said as gospel. It shows how much BS the FAI have been spurting out when they continue to release further statements adding bits and pieces at a time. The way its going they are going to get caught up in there own lies sooner or later. Hopefully the FAI can be forced to show these exact agreements with the third party to the clubs, because from what i can tell, none of the clubs know what are in these agreements. Maybe no one has come out in the press from the boards of other clubs to support Limerick FC (understandably), but i haven't heard anyone come out and say they have known about these third party agreements all the time either.
P.S. We are screwed next season.
Do you really want to get up JDs nose?
How about this chant, " Danny Drew for CEO, Delaney out" ;)
Fair play to ye and good luck with it. I desperately hope ye are correct in everything ye are saying and dont give Delaney a chance to rub yer faces in it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lim till i die
3) Limerick FC are portraying as a certainty that with FAI permission the game would come to Limerick. We are aware that even with FAI permission (which in any case, we are unable to grant), FC Barcelona has not made any decision to come to Limerick. We have spoken to high level officials at the club who have confirmed this and we are also know that international match agents are offering FC Barcelona to other clubs in other countries on the same date, July 31.
ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haaaaaaaa :)
Was there a hint of bitterness or imminent revenge in that? That's disgraceful and highly unprofessional.Quote:
Originally Posted by atfconline
Yeah, on that actually; was the original figure mentioned not 20,000 in the interview with Finnucane or did I imagine that? You'd expect Delaney to have his homework done before an interview on national radio...Quote:
Originally Posted by Lim till i die
And that was only yesterday too. Before that, nobody seemed to have any notion what the details of these third-party agreements were, if they even knew they existed in the first place; clubs included.
Was well worth a response. The FAI's statement is riddled with inconsistencies - outright contradictions even - and irrelevancies. Worse, it goes nowhere near excusing them for the farce that was the Bohs' change-of-date request either.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lim till i die
When I think of it, the FAI's third point is a bit stupid alright. How could Barcelona have contractually agreed to play the game if the FAI had yet to sanction it? That's kind of self-evident. Clearly, Barcelona had indicated in some form or another that they would provisionally save the date for Limerick and would sign a contract legally binding them to fulfilling the fixture if it was put in front of them, but of course, they couldn't 100 per cent agree to a game that the FAI had yet to sanction.
I'm not so sure the clubs will ever be allowed to see these agreements. The FAI seem desperately keen to keep the identity of this third-party under wraps. I suppose the third-party wouldn't be too pleased with the FAI if they were to suffer PR damage subsequent to being "outed" as directly involved in this mess, but they must have been mad to have gotten into agreements with the FAI in the first place. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Jofspring
with Limerick apparently going down the legal route, I'd imagine that the FAI will have no choice but to reveal not just the agency, but the contract itself.Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyInvincible
Quelle Suprise.Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyInvincible
Nothing new out of Fran.
Hard to have homework done when you're clearly making it up as you go along......Quote:
Yeah, on that actually; was the original figure mentioned not 20,000 in the interview with Finnucane or did I imagine that? You'd expect Delaney to have his homework done before an interview on national radio...
Did he really say that? I'm glad I missed it or I still wouldn't have calmed down by now. If he did, it would be impossible for him to deny Limerick a license next year with that you-tube clip available. Glad Con asked his question...all through Gavin's blurb you couldn't help but think Gavin was lying. As for Richardson, what a ****. Was surprised to hear his nonsense but I guess as pointed out already, he's on the payroll now.Quote:
Originally Posted by atfconline
It would be great to see some sort of unified stance from the clubs, even a public letter from the other 21 saying that they are concerned at the FAI's stance and/or the friendly limitations entered into on their behalf by the FAI might send a message.
I'm no lawyer but can't help think there are legal questions wrt the 3rd party agreement. The PA is a contract and all clubs are signed up to it, however its the law of the land that no party can be held to a contract that they are not privy to. Contracts have also been thrown out in the courts due to onerous conditions on one party, normally placed by the stonger party in the agreement onto the lesser party, even though the lesser party knowingly signed up to the contract.
There's got to be some competition issues here also. What I am understanding now is that in a free market, only a certain agent can setup football matches at Thomond Park....I'm sure Thomond Park find that very interesting. Even more interesting for them is that its clear this agent will now most likely only deal with Lansdowne Road.
If nothing else, this incident might force these clowns to pay more attention to the league....who am I kidding.
Well done Limerick for taking the stance....its the only way to effect any change with these guys.