Squad for Poland game

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12/11/2008, 9:34 AM
jbyrne

there is much of a muchness between those in the squad and those some here say should be in. trapp has been in charge less than 7 months and has had limited time to work with the players. what good would chopping and changing do for us?

you cant argue with 7 points from 9 at this stage so i'll go with trapps view on his squad.

andy reid has been very hot and cold for us. wow, he played well against an already qualified german team last october. big deal.. he was very poor 4 days later against cyprus.

so far so good as far as i'm concerned
12/11/2008, 9:37 AM
tetsujin1979

Quote:

Originally Posted by geysir

Both Reid and O'Brien, it would appear, have decided not to be a part of the squad or have fallen foul of the management (temporarily?).

O'Brien is injured at the moment, from http://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport..._new_recruits/

Quote:

O’Brien missed Saturday’s win at the KC Stadium with a thigh strain, picked up on his return to training after a hamstring injury

Quote:

Originally Posted by geysir

Do people here actually watch televised championship games?

Yeah, I watch a few games.

Quote:

Originally Posted by geysir

From the beginning Trap said that success with his teams are not about playing the best football but the best teamwork, defend with 7 attack with 4 (sounds like a line from Animal farm).

all players are equal, but some are more equal than others
12/11/2008, 9:40 AM
Sligo Hornet

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeilMcD

somebody is reading too many business managment books

Obviously those that were written without the aid of a spell checker;)
12/11/2008, 9:52 AM
dr_peepee

Quote:

Originally Posted by ifk101

Teambuilding, organisation, structure, discipline, continuity, mentality .... need we go on? Trapattoni's "actions" are clearly defined and calculated.

You're right with continuity and organisation. I'm not ignoring the leaps we've made under Trapp but I'm not blind to his faults

I don't see how ignoring good work and progresss of players at club level (endless list) and alienating players from our limited pool (O'Brien, Reid) constitutes efforts in team building. It could also be argued that continuity breeds complacency. How often at every level have you heard a young player say that if they take care of things at club level International football will take care of itself (or something to that effect)

What mentality are you on about?? Winning?? We're still ropey in the latter stages of games. We were gifted a neutral venue against Georgia. So it's too early to cite that, for me anyway.

His actions aren't clearly defined. He omits Andy Reid citing the redundancy of an attacking central player in his system, and the need for defensive central players, yet includes Miller, Gibson and Andrews. All players used in advance midfield roles by everyone other than Trapp.... Where's the continuity in using players in unaccustomed positions??

Quote:

Originally Posted by ifk101

As for not checking his options - how many players attended the training camp in Portugal, were included in the senior match squads and the B international match squad, and how many players start a football match?

I don't get ye on this point?? I think he's placed too much emphasis on a summer get together and a B match with multiple subs against Nottingham Forrest.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ifk101

Evolution theory? :rolleyes: Trapattoni is building a team - the whole is greater than the sum of its parts :D. Try to put yourself in the position of Trapattoni and look at it from his perspective and not your own.

By all means attack the man if we lose a game or two (for the exact date as to when this will happen ask paul_oshea) but Trapattoni is demonstrating clear method behind his madness and I have no reason to question his abilities of leading us to a World Cup at this stage in time. And I'd have no problem in letting Trapattoni drive the train to Cork. :D

I'm not reserving the right to complain after the event. I'm expressing reservations now so I'm not cited as a Hypocrite when it goes tits up. I'm not happy with the efforts for backfilling the current first team and Plan B. I firmly believe we are going to get found out when Richie Dunne is suspended and Alex Bruce is Trapps Idea as our next best, based on a summer get together and a Friendly agasint a Forrest XI. If he exhausted avenues to arrive at that conclusion well then you'd have no choice but to accept it if not agree, but that has not been the case.
12/11/2008, 9:54 AM
geysir

Quote:

Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

all players are equal, but some are more equal than others

I presume you were not the teacher's pet :)

There could well be rational football reasons why some players are favoured.
Trap's responsibility is to have a successful team, not an award ceremony for achievements made in club football.
The Italian expression "it's nothing personal" comes to mind.
12/11/2008, 9:55 AM
dr_peepee

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeilMcD

somebody is reading too many business managment books

Damn Straight...
12/11/2008, 9:59 AM
dr_peepee

Quote:

Originally Posted by geysir

The Italian expression "it's nothing personal" comes to mind.

The Irish expression "Lazy B@st@rd" comes to my mind...
12/11/2008, 10:11 AM
kingdomkerry

All these calls for championship players to come in to the squad confuses me. Surely if they are good enough for international football they would be good enough for the english premier league. Im not saying they are not or wont be in the future.
12/11/2008, 10:14 AM
Dr. Ogba

Quote:

Originally Posted by kingdomkerry

All these calls for championship players to come in to the squad confuses me. Surely if they are good enough for international football they would be good enough for the english premier league. Im not saying they are not or wont be in the future.

ehhhhhh...are you implying that every national team has (or should have) players playing in the top flight?
12/11/2008, 10:51 AM
jbyrne

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. Ogba

ehhhhhh...are you implying that every national team has (or should have) players playing in the top flight?

my reading of it would be that if they are good enough for what trapp wants from his squad then they will get into the squad and if they are not they wont. simple as
12/11/2008, 11:12 AM
shakermaker1982

Quote:

Originally Posted by kingdomkerry

All these calls for championship players to come in to the squad confuses me. Surely if they are good enough for international football they would be good enough for the english premier league. Im not saying they are not or wont be in the future.

O'Toole by the sounds of things will be off to Newcastle in the January transfer window. Dennis Wise according to reports in the guardian has been very impressed with the lads progress.

Noel Hunt will be playing in the PL with Reading next season - fingers crossed anyway.

Is it better for a players development to be rotting on the bench at some PL club (Folan, Miller, Whelan) or plying your trade with teams in the Championship every week (O'Toole, Garvan, Noel Hunt)? Being classified as a PL player because you have a squad number doesn't mean your necessarily a better play in my book.
12/11/2008, 12:03 PM
dr_peepee

Quote:

Originally Posted by shakermaker1982

Is it better for a players development to be rotting on the bench at some PL club (Folan, Miller, Whelan) or plying your trade with teams in the Championship every week (O'Toole, Garvan, Noel Hunt)? Being classified as a PL player because you have a squad number doesn't mean your necessarily a better play in my book.

If only there was some way for Trapp to get a look at these players in a non competitve situation to judge for himself....
12/11/2008, 12:28 PM
geysir

Quote:

Originally Posted by dr_peepee

If only there was some way for Trapp to get a look at these players in a non competitve situation to judge for himself....

Did those players (O'Toole, Garvan, Noel Hunt) not turn up at Dalymount for the friendly against Forest?
12/11/2008, 12:46 PM
passinginterest

Quote:

Originally Posted by geysir

Did those players (O'Toole, Garvan, Noel Hunt) not turn up at Dalymount for the friendly against Forest?

Don't think O'Toole was picked, Garvan got 20 minutes mostly out of position (I think Trap seems him in the Andy Reid mould of midfielders) and Hunt had to pull out with consussion.
12/11/2008, 1:11 PM
Sligo Hornet

Quote:

Originally Posted by passinginterest

Don't think O'Toole was picked, Garvan got 20 minutes mostly out of position (I think Trap seems him in the Andy Reid mould of midfielders) and Hunt had to pull out with consussion.

That's his International career over then!;)
12/11/2008, 1:29 PM
dr_peepee

Quote:

Originally Posted by geysir

Did those players (O'Toole, Garvan, Noel Hunt) not turn up at Dalymount for the friendly against Forest?

One of the other posters answered already...

That aside I don't think one B international (against forrest) and last summers get together is enough. He should be monitoring club form and making better use of friendlies. Not wholesale changes but at least exploring options in positions we have little or no depth in.

At best I think he's being over reliant on his minimal exposure to players. At worst I think he's just being lazy and indifferent. If we loose players on top of S Reid for any reason whatsoever and we don't qualify, Trapp will cite the loss of key players and it's difficult to argue against it. He picks up his few bob, goes back to Italy and the world keeps spinning.... I will counter that with a lack of effort on his part to insulate our selves from the impact of the loss of key players. That's just my opinion. I don't want it tagged with an "Andy Reid love-in"...
12/11/2008, 2:42 PM
tetsujin1979

Getting away from Andy Reid's omission for a moment, I was at the B international, and I thought Bruce was the better of the two centre halves on the night, and deservedly wore the captain's arm band. Granted the opposition was poor, but you can only play what's in front of you.
In retrospect, his inclusion over Paddy McCarthy isn't that surprising.
12/11/2008, 3:10 PM
co. down green

Decent displays from Whelan and Gibson last night.

Darron Gibson: Composed and solid in the heart of the midfield, mopping up loose balls and passing well. One of the Reds’ best players on the night.

City midfielder Glenn Whelan is targeting a return to the first team after an outstanding individual display in the Carling Cup win over Rotherham last night.
12/11/2008, 4:43 PM
jbyrne

Quote:

Originally Posted by co. down green

Decent displays from Whelan and Gibson last night.

had heard whelan was good last night. two man of the match performances for Ireland followed by a less impressive performance in a game that we still won yet some on here wont give him a chance. he has been far more consistent for Ireland than andy reid ever was
12/11/2008, 5:06 PM
Kingdom

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbyrne

had heard whelan was good last night. two man of the match performances for Ireland followed by a less impressive performance in a game that we still won yet some on here wont give him a chance. he has been far more consistent for Ireland than andy reid ever was

Fair play jbyrne, good point well made!
12/11/2008, 5:31 PM
eirebhoy

Quote:

Originally Posted by mypost

regarding reid, andy reid has started 2 games for sunderland this season.

7.

...
12/11/2008, 5:35 PM
On The Ball

Quote:

Originally Posted by shakermaker1982

O'Toole by the sounds of things will be off to Newcastle in the January transfer window. Dennis Wise according to reports in the guardian has been very impressed with the lads progress.

Noel Hunt will be playing in the PL with Reading next season - fingers crossed anyway.

Is it better for a players development to be rotting on the bench at some PL club (Folan, Miller, Whelan) or plying your trade with teams in the Championship every week (O'Toole, Garvan, Noel Hunt)? Being classified as a PL player because you have a squad number doesn't mean your necessarily a better play in my book.

I concur.Those 3 player's are all under 25 and garvan and o'toole are only 20/21 i think.Playing football week in week out is better than sitting on a bench for a premier league club.
13/11/2008, 6:02 AM
irishfan86

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbyrne

had heard whelan was good last night. two man of the match performances for Ireland followed by a less impressive performance in a game that we still won yet some on here wont give him a chance. he has been far more consistent for Ireland than andy reid ever was

Andy Reid, when selected, has been one of our most consistent players over the years.

His main problem has been injuries.
13/11/2008, 7:25 AM
Stuttgart88

Nothing would please me more than seeing Whelan play well for Ireland but I thought the Cyprus game showed how lacking we are in cover for Steven Reid.
13/11/2008, 7:41 AM
jbyrne

Quote:

Originally Posted by irishfan86

Andy Reid, when selected, has been one of our most consistent players over the years.

sure so have i........ when selected

have a look back at his performances for us and you will see decent performances widely dispersed among a lot of average ones. however, i still see a role for him in the squad
13/11/2008, 8:34 AM
Dr. Ogba

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbyrne

sure so have i........ when selected

have a look back at his performances for us and you will see decent performances widely dispersed among a lot of average ones. however, i still see a role for him in the squad

selective memory there, any time Reid had been picked in the previous campaign he had pretty much run the show for us in midfield. He's a player that makes things happen, these types of players tend to have their off day aswell but can generally do things that guys like Whelan or Gibson can only dream of...that's why we need him in the team...

Sure if you're talking about consistency Whelan has played in 3 games so far and has played poorly in one third of them already if you want to argue it that way...
13/11/2008, 12:27 PM
Morbo

I think Reid is a bit overrated by some on here and I definitely wouldn't consider him one of out most consistant performers, I remember him being pretty mediocre in that crucial game 2nd game against the Czechs and being **** poor against Cyprus granted he has had some very good games too but I certainly wouldn't describe him as one of our most consistant. That being said I think he is easily good enough to be in the squad and really should have played in this upcomming friendly so there must have being some falling out between Trap and Reid.

Overall a disappointing selection, how Long can be in the team before Hunt is beyond me and the other dodgy decisions to leave out the likes of Carsley, Delap, McCarthy(just to tie him up) etc
13/11/2008, 2:02 PM
jbyrne

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. Ogba

Sure if you're talking about consistency Whelan has played in 3 games so far and has played poorly in one third of them already if you want to argue it that way...

would still be one third less than reids poor games for us
13/11/2008, 3:23 PM
eirebhoy

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbyrne

would still be one third less than reids poor games for us

Under Staunton or overall? If you think 2/3 of his overall performances for Ireland were poor you've a very bad memory.

18-11-2003 Ireland 3-0 Canada
18-02-2004 Ireland 0-0 Brazil
31-03-2004 Ireland 2-1 Czech Rep
28-04-2004 Poland 0-0 Ireland
27-05-2004 Ireland 1-0 Romania
02-06-2004 Jamaica 0-1 Ireland
05-06-2004 Holland 0-1 Ireland
18-08-2004 Ireland 1-1 Bulgaria
04-09-2004 Ireland 3-0 Cyprus
08-09-2004 Switzerland 1-1 Ireland
09-10-2004 France 0-0 Ireland
13-10-2004 Ireland 2-0 Faroe Islands
09-02-2005 Ireland 1-0 Portugal
04-06-2005 Ireland 2-2 Israel
08-06-2005 Faroe Islands 0-2 Ireland
17-08-2005 Ireland 1-2 Italy
07-09-2005 Ireland 0-1 France
12-10-2005 Ireland 0-0 Switzerland
--
24-05-2006 Ireland 0-1 Chile
11-10-2006 Ireland 1-1 Czech Rep
15-11-2006 Ireland 5-0 San Marino
12-09-2007 Czech Rep 1-0 Ireland
13-10-2007 Ireland 0-0 Germany
17-10-2007 Ireland 1-1 Cyprus
17-11-2007 Wales 2-2 Ireland

Overall, his 18 games under Kerr was probably one of the best starts to an Ireland career that any of the current squad had. He had 3 good and 3 not so good games under Stan.
13/11/2008, 3:46 PM
jbyrne

Quote:

Originally Posted by eirebhoy

Under Staunton or overall? If you think 2/3 of his overall performances for Ireland were poor you've a very bad memory.

18-11-2003 Ireland 3-0 Canada
18-02-2004 Ireland 0-0 Brazil
31-03-2004 Ireland 2-1 Czech Rep
28-04-2004 Poland 0-0 Ireland
27-05-2004 Ireland 1-0 Romania
02-06-2004 Jamaica 0-1 Ireland
05-06-2004 Holland 0-1 Ireland
18-08-2004 Ireland 1-1 Bulgaria
04-09-2004 Ireland 3-0 Cyprus
08-09-2004 Switzerland 1-1 Ireland
09-10-2004 France 0-0 Ireland
13-10-2004 Ireland 2-0 Faroe Islands
09-02-2005 Ireland 1-0 Portugal
04-06-2005 Ireland 2-2 Israel
08-06-2005 Faroe Islands 0-2 Ireland
17-08-2005 Ireland 1-2 Italy
07-09-2005 Ireland 0-1 France
12-10-2005 Ireland 0-0 Switzerland
--
24-05-2006 Ireland 0-1 Chile
11-10-2006 Ireland 1-1 Czech Rep
15-11-2006 Ireland 5-0 San Marino
12-09-2007 Czech Rep 1-0 Ireland
13-10-2007 Ireland 0-0 Germany
17-10-2007 Ireland 1-1 Cyprus
17-11-2007 Wales 2-2 Ireland

Overall, his 18 games under Kerr was probably one of the best starts to an Ireland career that any of the current squad had. He had 3 good and 3 not so good games under Stan.

what does listing the results in those matches prove?:confused:
one of my memories is, for example, that he was very good against cyprus (3-0) but 4 days later poor away v switzerland (1-1). another is that he was good v germany last october but anonymous 4 days later v cyprus
13/11/2008, 4:23 PM
eirebhoy

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbyrne

what does listing the results in those matches prove?:confused:

To look through the list and realise that he was not poor in 2/3 of those games. Far from it.
13/11/2008, 4:42 PM
jbyrne

Quote:

Originally Posted by eirebhoy

To look through the list and realise that he was not poor in 2/3 of those games. Far from it.

all a matter of opinion really
16/11/2008, 12:58 PM
tetsujin1979

McGeady not even on the bench today VS the Accies, surely he'll be pulled out of the squad?
my guess is that Hoolahan would be the replacement
16/11/2008, 4:53 PM
richieos

noel hunt in and suddenly the squad looks much better..
16/11/2008, 5:26 PM
co. down green

McGeady out and Hunt in.

http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2008/1116/ireland1.html
16/11/2008, 5:31 PM
zenokelly

Quote:

Originally Posted by richieos

noel hunt in and suddenly the squad looks much better..

At least we know the management team know who he is now. :ball:
16/11/2008, 5:36 PM
rambler14

I wonder if Il Trap will make use of his subs???:rolleyes:
16/11/2008, 5:58 PM
tetsujin1979

Quote:

Originally Posted by zenokelly

At least we know the management team know who he is now. :ball:

We already knew that, he was called into the B squad, but had to pull out with concussion

Was thinking that Hunt for McGeady is a bit of a strange swap, a striker for a midfielder. I thought Trap would have brought in Scannell or Reid for McGeady.
with that in mind I expect the team to line out

Code:

Given Foley Dunne O'Shea Kilbane Duff Whelan Gibson S.Hunt Keane Doyle

with possibly Andrews coming in for either Whelan or Gibson
16/11/2008, 6:16 PM
richieos

il be dissapointed if andrews doesnt start this match, very impressive again yesterday
16/11/2008, 6:23 PM
Closed Account

With Keane out now also, the Hunt callup is probably to replace him.
Probably the right time to call up Reid now, and play him off Doyle, if
thats the only role Trap sees for him. Don't think it will happen though.

Code:

Given Foley Dunne O'Shea Kilbane Duff Whelan Gibson S.Hunt N.Hunt Doyle

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