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Government cuts welfare fraud

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Minister for Social and Family Affairs Mary Hanafin yesterday announced that dole payments now have to be collected by recipients at their local post office on a weekly basis, instead of being transferred directly into their bank accounts.

The Department of Social and Family Affairs has suspected for months that significant numbers, particularly workers who have lost construction jobs, have exploited the loophole by claiming benefit here, and then leaving to find work abroad.

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Can't see why any one would object to this. If you entitled to payments you will still get them. Very strange that this only applied to new applicants as if fraud only undertaken by new people.

Government alleging 10% fraud is a huge number. If fraud is undertaken by Irish residents they should be pursued by the State.

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Originally Posted by pete

Government cuts welfare fraud



Can't see why any one would object to this. If you entitled to payments you will still get them. Very strange that this only applied to new applicants as if fraud only undertaken by new people.

Government alleging 10% fraud is a huge number. If fraud is undertaken by Irish residents they should be pursued by the State.

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Good step IMHO.

Apparently was being abused by both Irish working abroad and non-Irish residents not currently resident in the State.

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Originally Posted by OneRedArmy

Good step IMHO.

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Bad step.

To qualify for unemployment benefit, it requires rigorous background checks. It's extremely tedious and bureaucratic. Now, it's going to get even more so by going back to the 19th-century system of the pen and paper in order to collect payment. With ever increasing numbers on the register, it's going to turn PO's into no-go areas for the wider public on payday.

It won't affect those who currently receive it.

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Originally Posted by mypost

Bad step.

To qualify for unemployment benefit, it requires rigorous background checks. It's extremely tedious and bureaucratic. Now, it's going to get even more so by going back to the 19th-century system of the pen and paper in order to collect payment. With ever increasing numbers on the register, it's going to turn PO's into no-go areas for the wider public on payday.

It won't affect those who currently receive it.

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Do you agree that foreign nationals who return home and Irish nationals who are working abroad aren't eligible for benefit?

If so, how do you enforce this without getting them to present in person?:confused:

I don't have a problem with it tbh - it's only going in and getting a book stamped and collect your money ffs mypost. I'm sure paying it direct was hailed as one of those great modernisations by the Government at the time - they've effectively enabled the fraud, aren't going to tackle it for existing claimants and now they're claiming this as a positive move! :rolleyes: Show's how little they cared about where the boom money was going that they weren't arsed about the fraud then...

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Originally Posted by mypost

To qualify for unemployment benefit, it requires rigorous background checks. It's extremely tedious and bureaucratic. Now, it's going to get even more so by going back to the 19th-century system of the pen and paper in order to collect payment. With ever increasing numbers on the register, it's going to turn PO's into no-go areas for the wider public on payday.

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Would love to know what those rigorous background checks are? AFAIK once they see you not officially employed (pay taxes) & they check your PRSI details you get your money.

No go areas just because a few people go into the PO to collect money?
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Originally Posted by mypost

It won't affect those who currently receive it.

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This I do not understand as it is like saying fraud is a new thing.

A spokesperson for the unemployed (i forget the name of the group) criticised the move saying it was "only" 10% fraud. :rolleyes:

Why not simply require people to sign-on weekly instead of monthly?
It would have the same effect but people could still get the money into their bank accounts and the post offices wouldn't become really busy. Sounds like the department want the PO to do their job.

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Originally Posted by Macy

I don't have a problem with it tbh - it's only going in and getting a book stamped and collect your money ffs mypost.

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Queues in the Welfare offices are now 30-40 minutes long, and all you have to do is produce your id card/passport and sign the form. Next up is the sight outside hundreds of PO's around Ireland of people standing in the rain, further punished because of a few fraudsters around. :rolleyes::mad:

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Originally Posted by mypost

Queues in the Welfare offices are now 30-40 minutes long, and all you have to do is produce your id card/passport and sign the form. Next up is the sight outside hundreds of PO's around Ireland of people standing in the rain, further punished because of a few fraudsters around. :rolleyes::mad:

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...probably cheaper to issue complimentary umbrellas than to carry the few fraudsters.

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Originally Posted by mypost

Queues in the Welfare offices are now 30-40 minutes long, and all you have to do is produce your id card/passport and sign the form. Next up is the sight outside hundreds of PO's around Ireland of people standing in the rain, further punished because of a few fraudsters around. :rolleyes::mad:

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a few? you think 10% is a few?

This country needs its resources now more than ever. If unemployed people have to spent another half hour waiting out of their no doubt hectic schedule waiting for the dole in order to reduce the sort of inefficiency that gave the world "the Irish way of doing things" then so be it; I'd gladly join them.

Even under the old PO system, there were fraudsters. 90% of receipients are genuine.

As usual, it's the poorest in the pecking order who are the first to feel the effects of another paranoid panic measure by a government unwilling to tackle more important projects. :mad:

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Originally Posted by mypost

Even under the old PO system, there were fraudsters. 90% of receipients are genuine.

As usual, it's the poorest in the pecking order who are the first to feel the effects of another paranoid panic measure by a government unwilling to tackle more important projects. :mad:

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The poor generally don't have bank accounts.

But don't let the facts get in the way of your rant...

Also 10% fraud rate is huge.

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Originally Posted by mypost

Even under the old PO system, there were fraudsters. 90% of receipients are genuine.

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If i said to you, "90% of public hospital patients are being treated properly" I'm sure you'd realise what a large amount 10% is.

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As usual, it's the poorest in the pecking order who are the first to feel the effects of another paranoid panic measure

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We'll be grand.

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Originally Posted by GavinZac

If i said to you, "90% of public hospital patients are being treated properly" I'm sure you'd realise what a large amount 10% is.

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90% of that, is considerably higher than the numbers treated properly at the moment. :o

I am glad I am not the only one who thinks 10% fraud is huge. Tightening the system won't deprive anyone who is entitled to the money. Any one caught defrauding the state should be made pay back the money by doing community service or similar.

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Originally Posted by mypost

Queues in the Welfare offices are now 30-40 minutes long, and all you have to do is produce your id card/passport and sign the form. Next up is the sight outside hundreds of PO's around Ireland of people standing in the rain, further punished because of a few fraudsters around. :rolleyes::mad:

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The bank system is fairly new, and a few years ago (with far great unemployment than now) there were no major queues in post offices. Unlike the social welfare office, there is no set time and can be picked up at any time during that week.

Where I come from there's still relatively high unemployment and most unemployed people seem to collect their dole at the post office. No great queues that I've noticed, it only becomes a no-go on the first Tuesday of the month (Childrens' Allowance day.) In effect, people are signing on every week by signing for their money at the PO.

I would assume a lot of Fraudstars would prefer not to hand over ac details/access to their bank accounts to welfare.
Legally can Welfare use a/c details to keep check on activity in claimants account?
I seem to remember someone from the Gov admitting a couple of years ago, that because the money from Welfare payments tended to be spent locally,
the country doesn't lose out, because we of course get it back on VAT anyway.
If this is the case then the rise in fraudstars who live abroad must have prompted them to change the system.

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Originally Posted by cheifo

I would assume a lot of Fraudstars would prefer not to hand over ac details/access to their bank accounts to welfare.
Legally can Welfare use a/c details to keep check on activity in claimants account?
I seem to remember someone from the Gov admitting a couple of years ago, that because the money from Welfare payments tended to be spent locally,
the country doesn't lose out, because we of course get it back on VAT anyway.
If this is the case then the rise in fraudstars who live abroad must have prompted them to change the system.

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So we get back 20% of 10%? Besides, welfare payments are supposed to be spent on non-taxed or low-taxed essentials.