NI boss targets Republic's Gibson

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Originally Posted by geysir

Your little genie bottle has been rubbed too often for that wish to have any effect. There is no need to resort to direct abuse.
There is a thread debate on the eligibility issue. The issue has direct relevance for EG. Surely he can come on this debate without being molested.

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EG set his stall out when he came on bleating about singing British war - cult songs from before my grandfather's day. He's a total sh*te stirrer that gets even moderate posters agitated - Tuff Paddy is one example - let alone me.

This debate has been done to death. Darren Gibson comes from the city of Derry (that has been allowed a team in the League of Ireland), holds Irish citizenship, something that he has had the right to avail of since the day he was born at a time when Ireland claimed the six counties as it's own, which unlike other certain disputed portions of the world that Britain has walked into and taken (Malvinas, Gibraltar) a sizeable chunk agreed with, including the people within the city and county of Gibson's home town. Now try and tell me he has no right to play for Ireland.

Typically, the IFA want it both ways. Moaning about a country not picking its citizens who happen to come from their jurisdiction, while taking advantage of the laughable 'British citizen' rule that allowed them to pick up mercenaries playing in England with British passports born abroad. Isn't it ironic that, along with England, Scotland and Wales, the O6C is the one 'footballing jurisdiction' that could get away with allowing Brazilians to play for these so-called countries while not actually having set foot in any of them.

I never imagined FIFA would accept the IFA's argument - FFS they would have fined the FAI long ago with the number of youth players it has fielded from Derry and Belfast- and its wishful thinking that they think they ever will.

My final point is for the w*nker on ourweebrains that claimed Gibson's decision was political. Frankly I hope it was. There are far too many greedy b*stards in football today, although I urge the FAI to go after all players born in Ireland, whether Catholic, Protestant, Jew or just plain greedy.

EG: Don't even bother replying to me because I'm not interested in your puerile 'justifications'. For the rest of you, I'll leave you to entertain our esteemed guest in peace. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by EalingGreen

"Worthington's view is shared by Irish FA Chief Executive Howard Wells who is adamant, under FIFA rules, that the Londonderry lad does not qualify to play for a team currently sitting third in Group D behind Germany and the Czech Republic.

Article 15 of the FIFA Statues states that qualification to play international football depends on one of four criteria being fulfilled:

The player was born on the territory of the relevant Association.

His biological mother or biological father was born on the territory of the relevant Association.

His grandmother or grandfather was born on the territory of the relevant Association.

He has lived continuously for at least two years on the territory of the relevant Association.

Gibson ticks all those boxes - for Northern Ireland.

On that basis, Irish FA chiefs and boss Worthington fully expect FIFA to rule that Gibson is ineligible to play for the Republic and are eagerly awaiting the decision"

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Being born in a stable doesn't make one a horse, Howie (though Mr Wells' seems to have been bestowed the intelligence of one). The IFA will have to come to terms with the facts that, firstly, many northern nationalists are simply uncomfortable, and unwilling to represent the wee 'country' - an inclusive wee association who fly a defunct wee loyalist banner (what happened the Saint Patrick's cross, too inclusive?) and which plays the British [!?] national anthem, it must be pointed out. And secondly, that anyone born in the North of Ireland is an Irish/British citizen by right and, as far as FIFA are concerned, are entitled to declare for either Association.

lopez what is the link to this ourweebrains site
i would like to view the comments

Also guys about the political crap..Chris Baird is the 1st catholic captain of the north since Martin O neill

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Originally Posted by bwagner

lopez what is the link to this ourweebrains site
i would like to view the comments

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It used to be an open site, but it was getting so much bad publicity in the press - due to the outburst of a 'few' posters - that you now have to register to enter. There's a link above. Enjoy!

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Originally Posted by Fergie's Son

How is McGeady's ancestry any different? The ROI has always held the position that anyone born on the island is an Irish citizen. Both of Gibson's parents were born on the island as was Gibson. Thus, he is entitled to Irish citizenship. He availed himself of said citizenship. This choice is recognized internationally, including the UK.




Well we need to focus on what is an "A" international. I think the McGeady case proves that an A international is any full friendly played by the senior team. Countries that have picked ineligible players before usually don't broadcast the fact the way the ROI has with Gibson. Further, the NI/ROI distinction is different from Quatar basically bribing players. In your heart of hearts you know this.

FIFA will not rule that he is ineligible.

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Re your first point, there is a clear distinction which may be drawn between Gibson and e.g. McGeady. Neither was born within the jurisdiction of the FAI, but McGeady has parents (grandparents?) who were, therefore there can be no doubt as to his eligibility. Whereas Gibson appears not to have such ancestry, therefore must rely on his citizenship. Which in political or constitutional terms is entirely legitimate, but does not necessarily qualify him in footballing terms (to represent the FAI under FIFA Regs)

Re. your second point, the FAI have said they believe Gibson is eligible for them; they may be correct, but saying so does not make it so, nor even would selecting him in a full international (friendly or competitive).
As for the comparison between Brazil and Qatar, of course I can see how the Irish situation is different - as I've said before, I have a degree of sympathy for Gibson. However, FIFA does not have one set of Rules for 206 of its Member Associations and a different set for the two Irish Associations. And where they do make particular exceptions - most notably for the four British Associations - these are clearly set out in black and white in their statutes.
Of course, it is open to FIFA to make similar exceptional provision for the FAI, but I have no doubt they will be hugely reluctant to do so, since that would then leave them open to similar claims by every disaffected minority and disputed territory anywhere in the world.

As for your last point, you may be correct. Then again you may not.

Darron Gibson will probably play tomorrow night at some stage, after that it's up to FIFA or UEFA to intervene. Because Northern Ireland and the question of nationality is fraught with so much sensitivity, I think that they'll refrain from making any stupid or controversial decisions. They will, common-sense prevailing, uphold Gibson's long-stated desire to play for the Republic. If they take negative action, ie, docking points or barring Gibson from playing for us, there will be absolute uproar. That's the last thing that FIFA want.

If the regulations were that stringent, would Derry City be allowed to represent the Republic in Europe? Derry, Alan Kernaghan, Ger Crossley and Mark McKeever set precedents which favour Gibson resoundingly. The difference is that Gibson is a highly-rated player at a high-profile club. He looks like having a great future and I don't blame the North for pursuing him, despite the wish of the player.

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Also guys about the political crap..Chris Baird is the 1st catholic captain of the north since Martin O neill

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Neil Lennon.

Baird also played gaelic football.

In 2007 the FAI summer schools only cover the 26 counties. I think next year the courses should be extended to the six other counties to allow our young Irish players living there an opportunity to participate.

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Darron Gibson will probably play tomorrow night at some stage, after that it's up to FIFA or UEFA to intervene. Because Northern Ireland and the question of nationality is fraught with so much sensitivity, I think that they'll refrain from making any stupid or controversial decisions. They will, common-sense prevailing, uphold Gibson's long-stated desire to play for the Republic. If they take negative action, ie, docking points or barring Gibson from playing for us, there will be absolute uproar. That's the last thing that FIFA want.

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Even if they didnt, gibson could go to european court of human rights etc, and FIFA dont want that. It is recognised across the world that people borh in the 6 counties can hold an Irish passport, therefore entitling them to play for Ireland, regardless of what EG thinks. FIFA know this and they aren't going to open up a whole can of worms for that reason alone. Unless FIFA changed their rules, which they wont do in this case, NI and IFA have no leg to stand on.

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Originally Posted by geysir

The relevance of the Samuel case is that it clearly demonstrates that FIFA use article 15 to decide on cases of dual nationals. Samuels case, a dual national resident in another federation.
There is no real question after that because the 4 so called additional requirements that Howard Wells bleats on about come from another document
http://access.fifa.com/documents/sta...20901%20EN.pdf
That document, only one and a half page long refers to the case of single nationals (Brazilians) wanting to declare for Qatar.
Read the document. This is the crux of the debate.

If Wells is paying good money for legal advice on this matter as you indicate then the lawyers are sucking the IFA out of good money.
Not only that, Wells has failed to do his job properly and continued to misinform the NI fans on this issue, although that does not seem to be too difficult.
I seriously doubt that FIFA will reply any more on this matter.
Their answer on Oct 2006 suffices.

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Samuel is NOT the same as Gibson, since his dual eligibility was never in dispute. He qualified for T&T since he was born there and he qualified for England by virtue of citizenship combined with residence. Therefore, his case was a question merely as to whether he could switch to T&T after having represented England at U-21 level. FIFA ruled that he couldn't, since he applied too switch too late.
Whereas, Gibson's dual eligibility is in doubt i.e. he qualifies for NI since he was born there, but may not qualify for ROI despite his having the same citizenship of the ROI as Samuel did for England (UK), since he does not have the same residential qualification*.

As for the Qatari/Brazilian situation, I have no doubt that the four additional requirements were introduced to stop rich Associations "buying" players. But equally I have no doubt that FIFA never even thought about the Irish situation when they closed the loophole. Therefore, it may not be pertinent how a player acquired his additional citizenship i.e. the Irish Government bestows citizenship for people born outside its jurisdiction for political reasons, Qatar bestows citizenship on people born outside its jurisdiction for sporting reasons: is FIFA willing/able to make such a distinction?

As for your last point, the October 2006 letter may suffice for the FAI, however it clearly does not do so for the IFA. In which case, if the IFA is incorrect and the case is so clear cut as you seem to think, why is it taking FIFA so long to put the IFA in its place?

The longer this goes on and the more bullish Wells appears, the more cautiously optimistic I am that the IFA's interpretation will prevail. But I wouldn't bet money on it, even yours...:cool:


* - Ironically, Gibson, by virtue of his eligibility for a UK Passport and his residency, would almost certainly qualify to play for England! However, the FA would not pick him, since they have a "Gentlemens' Agreement" not to select players over whom another Home Association has a prior claim! Yep, those nasty bigots at the IFA would stop Gibson exercising his human right to assert his "Bruddishness"...

I can just imagine the political fallout if FIFA intervene and try to restrict nationalist Northern Ireland born players from playing for the republic. The nationalist political parties up north would be in uproar as it would appear to many that FIFA was attempting to circumvent an agreement that was reached at a political level after decades of conflict. The British government would consequently be livid. The Irish one also.

Surely even EalingGreen and his North Korean mates from ourweecountry.com living in the fantasyland that we all acknowledge many of them inhabit do not expect FIFA to get itself muddled up in such a mess. Not when they couldn't even be bothered to interfere in the Carlos Tevez case for fear of overstepping their boundaries (a far less sensitive issue I think we all can agree).

Come on EalingGreen wake up and smell the rashers ffs. I can understand why your miffed but can't you also likewise understand why someone like Gibson doesn't want to represent your national team? After all it should be his choice not yours. This is in essence what we all agreed to in 98 wasn't it? Let's all let go of the Authoritarian ways of the past and we can all move on hand in hand into the new millenium.

P.S. I hear Paul Butler is thinking of defecting to the North after not receiving any recent International call-ups so you can have him instead. All swings and roundabouts eh?

Quote from the Good Friday Agreement; ''The birthright of all the people of Northern Ireland to identify themselves and be accepted as Irish or British, or both, as they may so choose, and accordingly confirm that their right to hold both British and Irish citizenship is accepted by both Governments and would not be affected by any future change in the status of Northern Ireland."

I really don't think FIFA want to contradict such a significant document.

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Originally Posted by livehead1

Tell you what lads; I'll ask Deeney if, when he played for Ireland, if it tied him to them forever...then we would have an answer?

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You'd have an answer, but it would be to the wrong question...

It is not relevant as to whether Gibson's playing in a full international fo9r the ROI subsequently "ties" him or not. The question is whether he is eligible to take the field in the first place.

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I really don't think FIFA want to contradict such a significant document.

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And that there ends this futile argument. thank you and good night.

As I said earlier it opens up a whole can of worms, one which FIFA DO NOT want to touch with a barge pole. EG thinks because they haven't come back is becuase they are deliberating......I think we all know the real reason, I would even go to far as to say that they would have encouraged ROI to play him in a match to get it over and done with and out of the way :D

EG, the Good Friday Agreement basically upholds the claim of any citizens of Northern Ireland who want to play for the republic. That was the reason why I boldified the word 'citizenship' in my last post. After all, citizenship is one of the aforementioned factors (and probably the most significant) in eligibility.

People on both sides of the border voted overwhelmingly to ratify the Good Friday Agreement - Gibson is merely upholding his constitutional right.

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Originally Posted by paul_oshea

Neil Lennon.

Baird also played gaelic football.

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yeah and we know what happened to Neil Lennon!

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Originally Posted by bwagner

Also guys about the political crap..Chris Baird is the 1st catholic captain of the north since Martin O neill

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NI doesn't have a "Catholic captain" any more than it has a "Protestant captain". Rather, it has captains who may be Protestant, Catholic or neither.

As for Baird, I assume (but don't know) that he may be Catholic. Should that be so, however, he is certainly not the first such captain since Martin O'Neill. I don't know for certain the religious affiliations of Pat Jennings, Mal Donaghy, Jim Magilton, Michael Hughes, Neil Lennon or Gerry Taggart, but I daresay there is more than one Catholic amongst that list of NI captains since O'Neill.

Anyhow, I doubt very much whether religion played a part in the NI manager's mind when selecting a player for the captaincy, especially since two of the four NI managers after O'Neill's time and before Worthington may themselves have been Catholic!

I have applied to join the forum but as I used the username dundalk guy...maybe it will be declined. i hope not as I actually support both teams on this island.

Anyway I have been reading alot of the comments over Gibson,kane,Wilson and M o'Connor from Crewe.....most posters claim the Fai are bigots and are only poaching catholic players...I think this is harsh as I know both Gibson and Wilson were both mis-treated by the ifa (also there is question over the religion of both mentioned players)

P.s ealing I personally dont give a damn which religion they are as it would be ironic from me to judge as Im a none practising catholic however I enjoy knowing that both religions players together and anyone can be made captain