Darron Gibson

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Originally Posted by paul_oshea

kingdomHoop your last paragraph is incorrect, it is not the united kingdom of great britain, northern ireland is part of the United kingdom not great britain

"Great Britain is the largest island of the British Isles. It lies to the northwest of Continental Europe with Ireland to the west and comprises the larger part of the territory of the United Kingdom."

"The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland (usually shortened to the United Kingdom, the UK, or Britain[1]) is a country[2] and sovereign state that lies to the northwest of Continental Europe with the Republic of Ireland to the west."

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Where is that from? It's wrong on at least one fact. There is no state called the Republic of Ireland.

Britain is not a shortening of the UK, it's a part of it. The Great part of Great Britain stems from it being larger than Brittany and goes way back to Norman times when they were the one kingdom. The modern day term "Britain" then is what is referred to in "the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland".

Northern Ireland is a part of the United Kingdom but not part of Britain. However, the UN has recognised that when referring to persons from the UK, the term "British" can be used.

It's also worth pointing out that it is generally accepted by both sections of the community on the north that you are entitled to call yourself "British" if thats how you feel, "Irish" if that's how you feel or "Northern Irish" if that's how you feel.

Oh yeah. Why do people get upset when the term six counties is used. Is it because of the people who use it? The area in question is six counties after all.

I'm sure Darron Gibson would love this stuff!

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Originally Posted by RiffRaff

All this discussion about a player who may never make the grade anyway. He certainly hasnt done anything to get into the Ireland squad so i can only conclude that its a political decision to get him tied to us. This could be a trivia question in a few years time - "name the Derry City reserve team player who got 10 minutes action in euro qualifier..."

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Aside from the fact that Gibson is a MU player (not DCFC), I can't believe that the FAI would allow Stan to risk the ROI being thrown out of the competition were it proved they'd selected an ineligible player, merely to "tie down" a player who wants to play for you anyhow.
I think it's much more likely an example of Stan's idiosyncratic selection policy. After all, Gibson has a better playing pedigree than e.g. Terry Dixon.

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Britain is not a shortening of the UK, it's a part of it

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Ya I know, its not I disagreed with that also, but i think what they are trying to say is, people just like Khoop refer to britain and the uk as the same thing, when they are two different things. Britain does not include northern ireland.

Khoop, I am just trying to point out as many people dont realise the difference, and some on here take what is said here as gospel, therefore they fall into the same category. I just wanted to clarify to ensure those people didnt fall into this trap. :)

Btw I am half joking there!! ;)

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Originally Posted by kingdom hoop

out of interest, do people from the north call their team ireland? i call my team ireland, so when referring to the team in a forum is it ok to say ireland. i think so. this debate serves to highlight the identity problem of people from NI.

you've spent so much time tapping the keys about whether we should be ROI and you NI that at this stage we're not much time has been saved at all. but i suspect your point is not to help us type quicker, though i would appreciate any tips on this matter so i can improve my work ethic and live the capitalist dream..

whatever about the historical foundations of the IFA i think nowadays the FAI is more entitled to the ireland tag given the north prefix to the jurisdiction covered by the IFA, and in turn is ruled by the United Kingdom of Great Britain. while the FAI is within the republic of ireland, if it was the republic of southern ireland i would think differently, what do you think?

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From my first couple of NI matches back in 1970, I do recall there was still the odd throwback to the days of the 50's and 60's (and before) when the team was known (officially) as "Ireland" and referred to as such by the fans - "Come on, Ireland" was to be heard, or songs referring to "Ireland", where that scanned better than "Northern Ireland".

Anyhow, when it comes to football at least, NI fans have absolutely no "identity crisis" these days: we know exactly who we are!

As for my typing ROI/NI etc, my point is that we are one team from Ireland and you are the other - it's an identification (or identity?) thing again.

As for the FAI claiming "Ireland" for its football, you're quite simply wrong in every respect bar your own imagination or political aspirations.

I didn't understand your point re. UK/Gt.Britain etc. NI is one of four constituent parts of the "United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland". It's really that simple.
As for footballing matters, we have no problems here, either. The clue is in the terms "Irish Football Association" and "Northern Ireland"

:D

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Originally Posted by paul_oshea

Khoop, I am just trying to point out as many people dont realise the difference, and some on here take what is said here as gospel, therefore they fall into the same category. I just wanted to clarify to ensure those people didnt fall into this trap. :)

Btw I am half joking there!!

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no worries, i actually thought you were fully joking so i just decided to play along. i'd kick your ass at geography anyway. capital of botswana??? i know, and without relying on that part of my brain called wikipedia:)

ealinggreen you are responsible for all this messing about:) why does it bother you so much? if your country fosters a sense of national pride there shouldnt be any worries about players decamping. i know thats a cheap jibe, but maybe it really is time to come together. there are massive amounts of new people in ireland now, it might be easier to subsume everyone with one fell swoop. start over again. but no i guess your 'country' is too important to its citizens, so important that they wont represent it?

i spose one way of looking at this is, what if a person of latvian parents is born in norn iron and in 20 years he wants to play for ROI ( lets keep all happy here ), does that person really have any association to the republic? Other than he wants to play for a better team ;)

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Originally Posted by kingdom hoop

ealinggreen you are responsible for all this messing about:) why does it bother you so much? if your country fosters a sense of national pride there shouldnt be any worries about players decamping. i know thats a cheap jibe, but maybe it really is time to come together. there are massive amounts of new people in ireland now, it might be easier to subsume everyone with one fell swoop. start over again. but no i guess your 'country' is too important to its citizens, so important that they wont represent it?

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Although I have views and opinions on politics, pretty much like most other people, I have no intention of getting into a debate on matters which are purely political, on this thread, at this time.

Instead, I am here joining in this debate since I am a passionate football fan, especially when it involves "my" team, NI, as this thread and the Ahern thread do.

All I am trying to do is understand the views of ROI fans, where it concerns me and my team, and in turn to try and state my views for them to take on board.

As such, I am trying to get across the point that the NI team exists just as proudly as the ROI or any other team.

When it comes to a "single" team (re Ahern), I don't think ROI fans quite understand the opposition which NI fans have to such a concept. It is not a "negative" thing, for me at least; rather it is a "positive" thing: I'm quite happy for us to be NI, and I don't wish you see my team disappear after all these years, whether merged into a brand new entity, or subsumed into another country's team. And that counts whether we are talking about Ireland/ROI, or about UK/England.

As for the Gibson matter, I personally have nothing against someone having political, or even sporting, aspirations which differ from my own. My problem with "Gibson"-type cases is this.
Where the IFA has developed a player - and Gibson learned his trade via the NI Schools Cup/NI schools international set-up, plus at Institute FC in Drumahoe (not DCFC) - it is galling to see the fruits of that effort enjoyed by another Association. And I would say this were it e.g. England or Norway or any other country wanting him.
Second, I have seen evidence which persuades me that at least some players may not actually have made the first approach to the FAI; rather, it looks to have been the FAI which made contact with (otherwise settled) NI youngsters.
Third, I simply do not want to see the NI team "reduced" to drawing its players and support purely from one community. Never mind the effect it would have on our playing strength, nor the fact that my greatest heroes include Jennings, Armstrong, O'Neill etc, I simply do not want to see "sporting apartheid".
Finally, what people do not seem to appreciate is that it is not NI who may actually prevent Gibson from representing ROI; if it happens, it will be FIFA, since it will be their application of their Rulebook which will prevail.
Indeed, though I've no doubt you'll not thank us for this (:D ), if the IFA's objections prevent you from being docked points or even thrown out for fielding an ineligible player vs San Marino, this will actually be to your advantage!
Otherwise, if we don't, and it turns out Gibson (or another) is ineligible, sooner or later another team is going to spot this and take action without notice.
But as I say, I don't really expect your gratitude on this last point...;)

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Originally Posted by paul_oshea

i spose one way of looking at this is, what if a person of latvian parents is born in norn iron and in 20 years he wants to play for ROI ( lets keep all happy here ), does that person really have any association to the republic? Other than he wants to play for a better team ;)

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You actually make a very good point, Paul, except for the very last last bit.

(Somehow, I don't think his parents would let him mistake which is the "better" team. Sure didn't we kick Latvia's butts only three or four months back?)

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Originally Posted by EalingGreen

(Somehow, I don't think his parents would let him mistake which is the "better" team. Sure didn't we kick Latvia's butts only three or four months back?)

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No you scraped a 1-0 win at home.

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Originally Posted by RiffRaff

All this discussion about a player who may never make the grade anyway.

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Why, do you think Gibson will be the last player from Northern Ireland that wants to play for us?

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Originally Posted by youngirish

No you scraped a 1-0 win at home.

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No "scraping" about it! Remember, 1-0 can be a very deceptive scoreline unlike, say, 5-2...

Anyhow, when was the last time the ROI "scraped home" in a competitive fixture? (And when I say "competitive", I don't mean San Marino, Cyprus or the Faroes!)

:D

eh my post was just about the 5-2 loss to cyprus....it was deleted cause I had the audacity make a refferance to celtic in another thread I assume...
basically that 5-2 is gonna be noose around are necks for years.....and ealing green is right topoint it out to anyone who slags his team....staunton out...

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Originally Posted by EalingGreen

Where the IFA has developed a player - and Gibson learned his trade via the NI Schools Cup/NI schools international set-up, plus at Institute FC in Drumahoe (not DCFC) - it is galling to see the fruits of that effort enjoyed by another Association.

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Maybe in future the IFA should ask players whether they support the Ireland or Northern Ireland before investing so heavily in them. I take it you haven't worked in the real world where companies lose people they have invested in heavily to other companies every day...that's life isn't it.

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Originally Posted by EalingGreen

Second, I have seen evidence which persuades me that at least some players may not actually have made the first approach to the FAI; rather, it looks to have been the FAI which made contact with (otherwise settled) NI youngsters.

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If that's true the IFA should act upon it. The FAI in the recent past made approaches to Aaron Lennon and Gary Cahill which I feel were outrageous.

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Originally Posted by EalingGreen

Finally, what people do not seem to appreciate is that it is not NI who may actually prevent Gibson from representing ROI; if it happens, it will be FIFA, since it will be their application of their Rulebook which will prevail.
Indeed, though I've no doubt you'll not thank us for this (:D ), if the IFA's objections prevent you from being docked points or even thrown out for fielding an ineligible player vs San Marino, this will actually be to your advantage!

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Surely you must be a lawyer? The rules were crystal clear as of 2006, I'm not sure what has changed. FIFA may be the referee here but IFA has lodged a complaint long after Gibson first appeared for Ireland. Why would the IFA try and stop Gibson realizing a personal ambition I ask myself? They have had plenty time why wait until he is called up for a senior squad after he has played at U19, U21 and B level...

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Originally Posted by Paddy Garcia

Well his Uncle speaks common sense.

A right to self-determination when it suits these guys !

I don't understand the nuance regarding the Deeny or Deery reference, what is being suggested?

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The point I was trying to make was that the IFA didn't seem bothered when Players opted to play for Ireland in the past.

Deeny,Geery Crossley,McStay etc... have all represented Ireland at various underage levels over the last number of years without a boo from the Windsor Park authorities.

So what makes gibson different ? I think the fact that has the ability to make it at club & international level has scared the IFA & more so the fact that Ireland have told the IFA that the unwritten rule regarding eligability is no longer is in place.

I have it on good authority that Ireland's thinking on the matter changed when a number of players approached the FAI and asked for the right to be considered for selection. Derry City have also advised players that their choice of international team is a matter for themselves and did not automatically direct players towards the Northern association.(Rightly so in my opinion)

The IFA seemed unconcerned about this and made zero contact with UEFA regarding Derry players - Deery or Mukandi's selection for Ireland.

It was only after Michael O'Connor and Tony Kane approached the FAI and were named in the squad for an u21 friendly last Autumn (along with Lurgan player Marc Wilson and Derry's Kevin Deery) that the IFA became interested again.

Now i'm not sure if it was because they were Belfast lads (rather than players from Derry) or not but it seemed to get 'backs up' at the IFA and they started questioning the rights of players to play for Ireland.

Another young player from Derry Ruairí Harkin played for Ireland u19's last August without any statements or outcry from the IFA.

Its a simple case of sour grapes from the IFA.

They really need to get a grasp of the realities in the North. They need to realise that a large proportion of population have supported and followed Ireland for many years and the natural outcome of that is that young supporters will want to play for their country.( As is the case for Gibson, travelled to games in Lansdowne as a kid , family all support Ireland etc..)

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Originally Posted by EalingGreen

Indeed, though I've no doubt you'll not thank us for this (:D ), if the IFA's objections prevent you from being docked points or even thrown out for fielding an ineligible player vs San Marino, this will actually be to your advantage!
Otherwise, if we don't, and it turns out Gibson (or another) is ineligible, sooner or later another team is going to spot this and take action without notice.
But as I say, I don't really expect your gratitude on this last point...;)

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This is absolutely true, there seems to be a view that if the IFA just stayed out of it it would be OK. But any team he plays against can and probably will complain.

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Originally Posted by EalingGreen

As for the Gibson matter, I personally have nothing against someone having political, or even sporting, aspirations which differ from my own. My problem with "Gibson"-type cases is this.
Where the IFA has developed a player - and Gibson learned his trade via the NI Schools Cup/NI schools international set-up, plus at Institute FC in Drumahoe (not DCFC) - it is galling to see the fruits of that effort enjoyed by another Association. And I would say this were it e.g. England or Norway or any other country wanting him.

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What?... Like Ryan Giggs with Engalnd then Wales. I don't see the difference. He played schoolboy football for Northen Ireland simply because he went to school in Northern Ireland. There was a comment from his Original NI manager at u15 (i think) recently who admitted that he knew Gibsons heart was always with the south, so where's the shock after representing us at every level since.

The IFA would be bettter servied being more introspective and addressing the issues that warrant players not wanting to represent them in the first place... I.E The recent Passport debacle, Neill Lennon and one look at the a NI footballing message board would be a place to start. Their current agenda is classic deflection.

Speaking as someone from the North the IFA's actions simply baffle me.

Instead of building bridges with my community the IFA effectively tries to impose British nationality upon us. It saddens me that they're so out of touch with the Nationalist community (42% of the population) and it is certainly against the spirit of the Good Friday agreement. Surely the IFA should be asking itself why Nationalists (by and large) do not support NI and would rather play for Ireland (or RoI if you prefer).

EalingGreen - in relation to Gibson playing for Inst. Are you suggesting Nationalists should not play for local teams if the intend to declare for Ireland (or RoI if you prefer)?


-Liam

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Originally Posted by cavan_fan

This is absolutely true, there seems to be a view that if the IFA just stayed out of it it would be OK. But any team he plays against can and probably will complain.

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FIFA confirmed the situation in a letter to the FAI in October last year.

They received correspondence from FIFA which backs up Gibson's status as a prospective full Ireland international.

"The FAI only selects players who are eligible and wish to play for the Republic of Ireland. This is in line with FIFA's position as outlined in October last year," said an FAI spokesman.

That FIFA position came in the form of a letter which was sent to both associations and stated that: "The existing situation in Northern Ireland allows players to choose whether they wish to represent the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland."