Johnny Kenny F Shamrock Rovers b.2003

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Originally Posted by elatedscum

it'll be interesting to see what happens come january. i know that farrugia and mandriou's contracts are both up, kenny's loan is due to expire, same as Darragh Burns and Markus Poom. transfermarkt says that Hoare (off to Pats), Towell (already gone) and Kavanagh's contracts are also expiring. There could well be more, as most of the players don't have any info on expiry dates. They can only register 3 new players in january - might be a real issue for them during the knockout phase, just trying to put together a team...

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As far as I'm aware, they have made a bid for Burns, that was rejected and will go in again. They definitely have the money to make it happen, and he can leave on a free in 6 months, so I'm sure that will happen. Grant coming in is 1 spot taken and is probably insurance for the Burns/Farrugia situations, but also Kavanagh if he goes, they've called Grant a wing back, it remains to be seen if he can actually play there!

They have tried to keep Kenny, but seems he will be off, same for Farrugia, some chance he stays, but he'll definitely have offers. Poom is 50/50, will stay if they want him I imagine. I think on Kavanagh/Hoare and Towell it is the right time to go. They'll probably be down 1 squad place on balance, but have a pretty deep squad. Kenny/Farrugia being more or less irreplacable, is the biggest issue.

Mandriou is interesting, I think he did relatively well when he signed, but missed a lot of the European run, where I expect he had hoped to make an impression and get a move somewhere off the back of it.

Id be lying if I said I took an enormous interest in the Irish National team, for me I take great satisfaction from seeing lads in the LOI pushing on with their career's and showcasing their skills on a competitive European level
What I do know for absolute certain is that if the likes of Dylan Watts or John Honohan were thrust into the international set-up they would more than hold their own.

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Originally Posted by placid casual

Id be lying if I said I took an enormous interest in the Irish National team, for me I take great satisfaction from seeing lads in the LOI pushing on with their career's and showcasing their skills on a competitive European level
What I do know for absolute certain is that if the likes of Dylan Watts or John Honohan were thrust into the international set-up they would more than hold their own.

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How can you claim something as an absolute certainty about something you yourself admit you don't have an enormous interest in ?

Even with an enormous interest in players available to the national team, successive international managers have not selected players from the league. Even Kerr & Kenny didn't, both LOI men themselves.

There is no absolute certainty here.

What is certain is no matter how good Horgan & Boyle looked for Dundalk in Europe, it did not register in any relevant or meaningful way at international level.

I think there's a real danger of the Conference League making players look an awful lot better than they are. It's European group stage football of a standard we've never seen before - in the past you would never have had Shamrock Rovers getting to play TNS or Larne in group stage matches.

In Johnny Kenny, for example, you have a player who quite recently has looked out of his depth in both the Scottish lower leagues and the Ireland Under 21 team suddenly looking like a star in European games. That's a big red flag for me in terms of what we're watching here.

Rovers' run is a lovely story, but the last thing we need is another round of call up screaming for players who are nowhere near good enough to play for Ireland off the back of it

It's almost as if a lad who only turned 21 this year has actually progressed as a player.

It's also almost as if Shamrock Rovers improved their coefficient enough to get a higher seeding.

Imagine that.

It's almost as if none of that is really the point though.

Jack Byrne was a stand-out LoI player (to the extent Kenny, Watts and indeed anyone else at present just isn't) and was worth his place as a squad member in the Ireland squad for a while.

There's nothing to indicate that Watts or Honohan would "absolute[ly] certain[ly] [...] more than hold their own". And it's absolutely fair to note that Rovers have the weakest draw any LoI side has ever gotten in the group stages in Europe. Let Rovers fans enjoy the wins, but let's not cod ourselves that goals against sides ranked in the 30s and 40s in Europe suddenly make an international player.

Jon Afolabi seemed to make a sudden progression as a player when he came back to Ireland as well. And regressed just as quickly when he left again. We've got to be realistic about the standard of all this. It's great that the champions of smaller European leagues are getting group stage football now. But it's obviously at a lower level than the Europa League groups that Irish teams previously played in. None of TNS, Larne or Banja Luka had played any group stage European football before this season. They're in there because it's almost harder not to qualify at this point.

Let's see how Kenny goes when he heads back to the UK. I think he might have the potential to make it at a mid table SPL team. But that won't make him any more of an international standard footballer than Warren O'Hora or Graham Carey.

Agree on this Rovers have done great but the only result where they have performed beyond what woukd be expected is the draw in Austria where they were very good. Kenny going back to celtic either takes game time off him or off Idah so not good. Hopefully they get him a spl or championship loan in Ja. Rovers has been a great loan for him he has pushed through the rough spells where he just didn't look up to.top LOI standard and bloomed to seanie maguire levels before he got his move

It'd be really nice if the top players in the LoI were progressing to international standard. If that day ever comes, I'll probably still be skeptical that I'm seeing a statistical blip until it's sustained for quite a while. That'd be really nice. I highly doubt placid casual is on the right side of this discussion, but I'd love to be wrong. Time will tell.

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Originally Posted by elatedscum

Daily Mail saying Celtic are gonna give Kenny a chance:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...ck-Rovers.html

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Shame he cant see out the rest of his European adventure if true

Whatever about TNS/Larne, I expected Boruc to be much better, they drew with Panathinakos, beat APOEL and LASK, which are all really excellent results, it was strange to see just how much stronger Rovers were. I've wondered a lot about match loads for these smaller teams, they're definitely not used to playing this many games, same goes for TNS/Larne, it has destroyed Larne's league season for instance. I do think part of it has been a genuine improvement from Rovers beyond what I thought they were capable of, and they deserve some credit for that.

I think for more than half his 2 season's at Rovers, Kenny looked like someone with potential, but that his time wasted in the Scottish lower leagues had really harmed him, it was only around CL Rnd 1 this year when he scored twice against Ryekjavik, who themselves have done decently in the ECL were I thought there was still a lot more to come. I think in the last 6 months especially he's really improved. I think part of it is him improving, part of it is Rovers, I have absolutely no idea what his level is but I think he now has a chance to eventually be an international footballer in a way I don't think he did a few months ago. He is only 21, he's obviously still developing, there's aspects of his game you can clearly see a difference in now V's a while back.

Watt's time has probably passed, he was an excellent but very light footballer as a youngster, at 27 it's understandable that he's peaking now and probably playing at the highest level he ever has. He has been really good for those who haven't been watching, and scoring in cutch moments, something he hadn't really done before. I'd want to see if he can keep it up for another while before it was even a conversation thou.

Honohan is 23, maybe it's too late for him to make huge strides, but he looks an extremely strong athlete, definitely has the physicality to go places, is a better wing back than I ever expected him to be. The fact the Rovers debate isn't any longer about Farrugia/Jack Byrne is probably a good sign of the depth they've developed.

It is a pity that it seems there's something just not right about Jack Byrne's body, whatever happened to his back a few years ago has either never gone away, or caused more problems, has he ever been really fit since going to Cyrpus?

How these guys do v Chelsea XI and in the knockouts next season will be very interesting, but it's a pity Kenny won't be there.

Something in favour of Honohan is he actually plays LWB, so honestly he probably does deserve a look given how desperately short we are.

Hoolahan looks good from the little I’ve seen of him. And as you say, given his position and the trouble we have there, he’s probably the Rovers player that most merits consideration. I know he can play on the left but he is naturally right-footed? Might count against him.

I agree that if you were going to look at anyone from Rovers it would be Honohan. Plays LWB and is also versatile and can cover other positions. At the risk of sounding like HH though, he may need to move to prove himself at a higher level before we could call him in (for all our issues at left back/left wing back, we currently have a starting Premier League option and at least two starting Championship options, so that's the standard required to get a call up).

Will definitely be keeping an eye out for him though - and for me that's more what the link from the domestic league to the national team is, a place for players to get game time in and develop with a view to stepping up at both club and international level down the line. In truth, that's the role most European domestic leagues play these days, and there's nothing wrong with that.

Tough night out for Rovers. I watched the first half — Kenny had a great opportunity with a ball hit right across the six yard area. Good movement to be in that position but really needed to finish.

Tough night. Could have scored 4. Two late chances for Greene, Kenny’s early miss, Burke’s penalty shout.

Thought Burke and Byrne looked a significant step up when they came on. Not sure why Greene came on for Kenny. Mandriou and Farrugia had moments but didn’t impress as much as you’d hope

Does that mean Rovers get Real Betis based on Rovers having better goals scored than APOEL? If that’s the case I’d be screaming to score an own goal in stoppage time to avoid it and get Olimpija Ljubljana instead

They play Molde or Backa Topola next. Last night was useful in terms of giving us a sense of the standard of what we were watching up to now. The Chelsea youth/reserve XI in second gear were miles too good for them. Will hopefully put the call up Kenny/Watts/Byrne/Farrugia/whoever stuff to bed now.

In fairness, the lads who played cost £317m to acquire and the vast majority are paid more in a week than the rovers players are paid in a year.

You had a £20m keeper, a back 4 that cost over £100m including a Euro 2024 winner in Cucurella, and France and Portugal internationals (Disasi and Veiga) along with Acheampong who was held back until he signed a new deal, announced on Wednesday and is considered the heir to Reece James. In midfield, also over £100m including Nkunku who was Bundesliga player of the season, German PFA player of the season and player of the year in 2022 (all 3 big awards) before signing for Chelsea. Even former golden boy and €100m man Joao Felix came off the bench (£46m for Chelsea).

I honestly think if say Bristol City or Cardiff come up against that team - it’s probably an equally dominant win.

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Originally Posted by elatedscum

In fairness, the lads who played cost £317m to acquire and the vast majority are paid more in a week than the rovers players are paid in a year.

You had a £20m keeper, a back 4 that cost over £100m including a Euro 2024 winner in Cucurella, and France and Portugal internationals (Disasi and Veiga) along with Acheampong who was held back until he signed a new deal, announced on Wednesday and is considered the heir to Reece James. In midfield, also over £100m including Nkunku who was Bundesliga player of the season, German PFA player of the season and player of the year in 2022 (all 3 big awards) before signing for Chelsea. Even former golden boy and €100m man Joao Felix came off the bench (£46m for Chelsea).

I honestly think if say Bristol City or Cardiff come up against that team - it’s probably an equally dominant win.

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And to add to that Jack Byrne certainly did not look out of place when on the pitch.