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Kenny was responsible for our first success on the field which brought crowds out due to the novelty of it. After his initial good work around the town when he first came in, which increased interest from a very low base it was little to do with him personally though obviously he deserved the credit for the initial on the field success. Crowds dropped off when the initial novelty of being in the top division wore off after a few years. The style of football was just a convenient excuse.
This is key really. Ireland's predominant sporting 'fan' culture is about big events and chasing success. You only have to look at the difference between the crowds GAA counties attract for league fixtures versus those for knock-outs. The same when Ireland qualify for a major football tournament, and people who rarely go anywhere near the Aviva are suddenly trying to pull all sorts of strings to get onto the bandwagon.Quote:
Originally Posted by Longfordian
We're big game hunters. The week-in, week-out monotony of supporting football over an eight or nine month long season generally doesn't appeal to the Irish. But rather than be honest about that to ourselves, we just come out white sh!te excuses to put the blame onto everyone and everything else. "Not enough local players ; bad style of football ; weather ; blah blah.
We're an awful bunch of b0ll0x when you think about it.
The third tier should allow non-LoI teams, who've progressed through the youth leagues, the opportunity to join. A representative team like Kerry League wouldn't be able to get promoted. They would however have the opportunity of participating at that level. It could result in the formation of a club entity in time, if that happens to be the natural evolution for any non-LoI entity.
For an LOI club with attendances of 200, a squad of players bringing a couple of family and mates each can make a non-trivial difference to the gate.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nesta99
Not really sure where this news fits, but I suppose it's somewhat relevant to further tiers of the league etc. https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/...-40799793.html
Under 19 league will allow 4 overage players (2 under 20 and 2 any age). That will at least help some of the bigger squads give game time to players, especially those returning from injury or just on the fringe of squads.
Some interesting moves in the lower ages too, with the move to three 30 minute thirds and a requirement of at least 30 mins playing time for each player.
We're cúnt$ really EYG.Quote:
Originally Posted by EatYerGreens
Brilliant post EYG !!
Don't think it just an Irish thing though. Having spoke with some fans of lower or non league club in England down through the years they say much the same, half or less full stadiums most of the year but all the town/area suddenly big fans when chasing a title/promotion or a big FA cup gameQuote:
Originally Posted by EatYerGreens
The key difference in that Neish is that I'm England there is a higher level of football to watch, whereas the LOI is the highest level of football in this country.
If it wasn't for Rovers, me mam living here, and the fact you can't get Manhattan peanuts or proper butchers white pudding anywhere else, I'd gladly walk away from this soft right wing, insular, parish pump political, banana republic and never give it a backward glance.
The risible Sid Vicious got it spot on one time in his life. Asked about the opinion of 'the man in the street', he replied "I've met the man in the street, he's a c***"
But that won't be because the people in those towns are watching Spanish or German football instead. It'll be because they're watching/following a bigger English club in the region. And they'll also bear no ill will towards their local non-league side and happily go watch them when they're doing well, whereas in Ireland those who love English football often have a real disdain for the LOI.Quote:
Originally Posted by Neish
There's also usually a lot of overlap in support between big and little clubs in close proximity in England - almost like a big brother little brother thing. So Gateshead's crowds go up whenever Newcastle aren't at home, for example. A decent numberof English fans would actively support both a big and a little club at the same time.
This webpiece sums it all up for me : THE BEST SUPPORTERS IN THE WORLD? IRELAND’S ENDURING DELUSION – Between the Stripes
But you'd probably end up in England, America or Australia - which are genuinely right wing. Ireland is just a weird mix of right and left stuff at the same time. Hence it's got better pensions than Britain, but you have to pay for healthcare. It's neo-liberal on Corporation Tax, but has nationalised far fewer industries than the Brits. Etc etcQuote:
Originally Posted by placid casual
Not entirely true with means tested free care, and what is paid for treatment is a relatively small surcharge for what is often generally very costly. An almost entirely free service like the NHS is abused and battered by many users and causes unnecessary waiting times. We introduced a 24hr GP service in a NHS ED that is paid for as a choice after being triaged as a non emergency - numbers and waiting times and associated cost dropped by nearly 30%. A hybrid system that is fair in means testing will always be more accessible to those who need it most, and free up resources for areas that get neglected like eldercare, which is dreadful in England/Wales, and Mental Health Services here. With the pandemic expansion being needed less, but needs also to remain on standby, and with some proper thinking on lowering the cost of living, there wont be a better opportunity to take a good swipe at resourcing the HSE fully and cull inefficiencies. The will to address a public health emergency shows how quickly thinks can be scaled up and payed for - so the problem being too big to fix is no longer an excuse!Quote:
Originally Posted by EatYerGreens
Agree with all of this, esp the big club/little club bit. For example, Robert Plant is a well-known Wolves fanatic, but he still nabbed a ticket for Kidderminster's FA Cup game yesterday.Quote:
Originally Posted by EatYerGreens
More generally, I remember Arsene Wenger pointing out that England had by far the strongest football culture in the world. And if you think about it, it supports over 100 f-t professional clubs - more than twice as many as comparable countries like Italy, Spain, Germany or France.
Clubs like Burnley, in a town of 100k and surrounded by giant clubs, can still support PL football and draw 20k crowds. Greater Birmingham is not especially big, but still supports 4 decent-sized teams. While if you compare the smaller clubs in eg London with those of Madrid, Paris or Munich/Berlin, Palace, WHU, Fulham, QPR, Millwall, Charlton or even little old Brentford are much bigger than their continental counterparts.
If the Championship was its own separate league in a separate country, it would the 5th or 6th best supported league in Europe. And going down below that, you have teams like Sunderland, Sheff Wed, Ipswich, Bolton and Bradford regularly drawing five figure gates, sonetimes 20k, 30k or more. Why even Stockport Couny are pulling in 5k every week in the NL, and were even in the early season i.e. before their current run took them to the top of the table.
While for all its own regular under-achievement, the England NT still draws in far bigger crowds for friendlies or qualifiers against San Marino etc, than comparable continental countries.
Though perhaps it is Engliand, with its obsession with the professional game, which is as much an outlier, as ROI is for its bandwagonning tendancy?
Anyhow, getting back on topic, Scotland can maintain a league of four divisions/42 clubs down to Highland/Lowland level below.
And even little NI can operate a pyramic which goes from a Senior League of 2 divisions/24 clubs, with Promotion and Relegation through to Intermediate level, and further through to Junior level (in theory at least!).
Therefore there can be no good reason why ROI couldn't have something similar, if the vision and the will were there (stress the "good").
There's playoffs from the Highland/Lowland down to the next tier now as well - so that's at least six levels.
Means an almost certain end to Fort William flailing about at the foot of the Highland League
Hiow do you know their not watching Spanish or German football?Quote:
Originally Posted by EatYerGreens
SKY etc don't just buy right to such games for the Irish market. And for all the cross over with bigger football clubs you mention in england, we have similar with the GAA here in Ireland
If only because the games are not on at the same time :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Neish
Seriously - how many English people do you meet or even hear about who's first club is Spanish or German ? You'd be into the realms of freakish exceptions.
The FAI is about to unveil their 3 year Strategy just now (on YouTube).
According to Dan McDonnell, this is to include a new 3rd tier LOI by 2023 (also a 2nd tier in WNL by 2025):
https://www.independent.ie/sport/soc...-41319960.html
Also part of the document:
"Commence consultation on the formation of an Irish football pyramid by Q4, 2022 with an agreed and transformed football pyramid structure in place by 2025"
That sounds very promising - albeit that it has to fall into the realm of "believe it when I see it" for now.