Bosun Lawal M Stoke b.2003

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Originally Posted by CSAD

I know people have been excited about Lawal and I see why but I struggle to get excited by any player that chooses to remain at Celtic as I fail to believe they can do so and be serious about their development as a player.

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If you're good enough you'll get games at Celtic.
Dembele, Ajer, Christie, Frimpong, Wanyama, Tierney - all joined Celtic at a young age, improved their game and got big moves.
Matt O'Riley will join that list soon.

The perception that Celtic ruined careers of young Irish talent in recent times is nonsense. They simply weren't good enough.
Lee O'Connor, Connell, Afolabi, Okoflex look at their careers now - that's not Celtic's fault.

If Lawal is good enough, it shouldn't be hard for him to break into the Celtic midfield especially with O'Riley on the verge of leaving.

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Originally Posted by MylesNotMiley

If you're good enough you'll get games at Celtic.
Dembele, Ajer, Christie, Frimpong, Wanyama, Tierney - all joined Celtic at a young age, improved their game and got big moves.
Matt O'Riley will join that list soon.

The perception that Celtic ruined careers of young Irish talent in recent times is nonsense. They simply weren't good enough.
Lee O'Connor, Connell, Afolabi, Okoflex look at their careers now - that's not Celtic's fault.

If Lawal is good enough, it shouldn't be hard for him to break into the Celtic midfield especially with O'Riley on the verge of leaving.

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Yeah I wonder why they have had only 1 academy graduate in their starting 11 (McGregor) and he's been at the club for over 10 years...yeah that's not Celtic's fault at all.

I also wonder why all of Scotland's U21 talent avoids Celtic like the plague...yeah nothing wrong with Celtic at all, it's all their fault.

...Let's ignore all the red flags as like you said, Celtic are completely innocent in everything they do.


What's noticeable from that list, only 1 came from the Celtic academy...which is f-ing tragic. Celtic can be a good place to go if you were developed at another club, which is why for Scales & Idah it can be useful.

The issue I have is with the likes of O'Connor, Connell, Afolabi etc is they left Celtic much worse players than when they joined...if Celtic is such a good club for young players how can this happen? I think these players were doomed by the simple fact they signed for Celtic as it showed they had A. No sense and B. were badly advised which today is half the battle and it showed they were doomed to fail before ability came into the equation due to the advise they got from their representatives as if they were well advised they would have stayed a million miles away from Celtic.

Lol Celtic thought he was a centre back...you really think they are going to use Lawal properly? Not a chance, they'll probably think he's a goalkeeper next...

The reality is if Lawal is serious about his future as a player he'll get out of Celtic as soon as a concrete offer from any of the rumoured teams come in.

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Originally Posted by MylesNotMiley

If you're good enough you'll get games at Celtic.
Dembele, Ajer, Christie, Frimpong, Wanyama, Tierney - all joined Celtic at a young age, improved their game and got big moves.
Matt O'Riley will join that list soon.

The perception that Celtic ruined careers of young Irish talent in recent times is nonsense. They simply weren't good enough.
Lee O'Connor, Connell, Afolabi, Okoflex look at their careers now - that's not Celtic's fault.

If Lawal is good enough, it shouldn't be hard for him to break into the Celtic midfield especially with O'Riley on the verge of leaving.

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Connell's doing well enough to make it worth asking the question as to where he'd be now if he hadn't wasted three years of development at a crucial age at Celtic.

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Originally Posted by Eirambler

Connell's doing well enough to make it worth asking the question as to where he'd be now if he hadn't wasted three years of development at a crucial age at Celtic.

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Although to give Celtic some defence, the SPL is one of the worst leagues in Europe for giving u21 players game time. I was reading an article on transfermarkt which highlighted the concern for Scotland's future and statistically this fact was mentioned and it was pretty damning.

For me this window is a huge one in the career of Lawal. If he is serious about developing as a player & he is well advised by his representatives he'll leave Celtic as soon as possible. He's going to go nowhere at Celtic and the sooner he realises that the better.

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Originally Posted by Eirambler

Connell's doing well enough to make it worth asking the question as to where he'd be now if he hadn't wasted three years of development at a crucial age at Celtic.

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I would actually like to see luca called up for a friendly
I know he's league one, but he is one of Barnsley best players and he is in a position that we are crying out for.

Also no-one would be surprised if Barnsley got promoted to the championship

Whether you want to blame Celtic for it or not, the lack of options for a player once they age out of U18s but aren't ready for the first team are shocking. At English clubs you have PL2, as well as lots of loan options with feeder clubs and a solid pyramid to get players a move.

At Celtic, once you hit 18, it's off to Celtic B to play on astroturf in the Lowland League. Playing against grown men with limited to no football ability, in terrible conditions.

Luca Connell went from playing in the Championship at 16 to the Scottish 4th tier in less than 3 years. That's not a good reflection on anyone involved but the structure at Celtic is a problem. They also have enough relative financial backing to dip into the transfer market at home and abroad to get first team players whenever they need them.

Celtic are a massive club but heading to them or to Scotland in general would be the last thing I'd recommend to a young, talented footballer.

Celtic are at the deep centre of a Fenian plot to destroy the British game of association football from the inside = = Genius.

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Originally Posted by ColourfulPeanut

Whether you want to blame Celtic for it or not, the lack of options for a player once they age out of U18s but aren't ready for the first team are shocking. At English clubs you have PL2, as well as lots of loan options with feeder clubs and a solid pyramid to get players a move.

At Celtic, once you hit 18, it's off to Celtic B to play on astroturf in the Lowland League. Playing against grown men with limited to no football ability, in terrible conditions.

Luca Connell went from playing in the Championship at 16 to the Scottish 4th tier in less than 3 years. That's not a good reflection on anyone involved but the structure at Celtic is a problem. They also have enough relative financial backing to dip into the transfer market at home and abroad to get first team players whenever they need them.

Celtic are a massive club but heading to them or to Scotland in general would be the last thing I'd recommend to a young, talented footballer.

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That's exactly it, it's probably the reason so few Scotland u21 players remain at Celtic once they hit 18/19 as they recognise this shortcoming and move on.

The issue I have with Celtic is they have no plan to address this shortcoming, they are happy to throw their youngsters to the wolves. I mean you look at Johnny Kenny for instance, he goes from playing regularly for Sligo to Celtic and is then playing week in, week out in the 4th/5th tier of Scottish football until he eventually gets a loan to the 2nd tier, surely it doesn't take a genius to see that this was only going to be a detriment to his development....and he was again another player who went backwards after signing on loan for Rovers, literally a shadow of the player he was when he broke through at Sligo until this season when he got his mojo back. If Celtic were any good at developing young players in this instance if he wasnt seen as ready for Celtic he should have been on loan at a SPL side of a LG1 side in England, the ideal next step in his development...the way they treated him showed they had no plan in developing him and Kenny/his representatives should have known that before signing.

I think for players like Scales or Idah it's a good place to go because they've played plenty of experience behind them and Celtic provides an opportunity for potential develop as players but for players like Lawal they should be staying well clear.

The article highlighted that the SPL is just not a good league for developing u21 players and I think you see that now in the English premiership as less and less teams are loaning their players there than before and instead favour loaning them to the Championship/Lg1/Lg2.

Looking at the article they suggested some of the best leagues for u21 players was the Austrian and Czech leagues, and looking at nordic countries that has fast become a popular place for their players to go.

Bosun Lawal is just the latest player to make a poor career decision by signing for Celtic but he's still young and there's still time for him to make the correct decision, hopefully he does that and leaves this window.

Was an unused sub in Celtics second game in the US where they made 11 changes in the second half. Along with being subbed on and off last week in the second half maybe it's safe to assume that Lawal's future this season is away from Celtic.

With his contract situation wouldn't be surprised if it's a permanent move either. Only two years left on his contract and would except Celtic to want him to sign a new deal before going on loan.

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Originally Posted by MylesNotMiley

Dembele, Ajer, Christie, Frimpong, Wanyama, Tierney - all joined Celtic at a young age, improved their game and got big moves.
Matt O'Riley will join that list soon.

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How many of those players did Celtic develop?

Jury is out on Dembele being a success yet. He had to have a loan at Blackpool at League One last season to get him up to speed at senior football.

Ajer had over 60 apps for IK Start before joining Celtic, still needed a year at Kilmarnock before he got any games there.

Christie was already an established SPFL player before joining Celtic. Still needed two years on loan at Aberdeen before getting anywhere near a chance.

Fimpong came out of Man City academy, 19 years old, almost 20, and went straight into the first team squad.

Wanyama was already an established senior player in Belgium before joining Celtic.

Kieran Tierney is the only real success from Celtic academy in your list of players, which ranges from young lads through to players in their mid-30s.

It's not a very exhaustive list, and Celtic continues to sign promising young players who end up playing lowland league football, which is not beneficial to their development. It's like sending lads on loan to the Leinster Senior League and expecting them to come back ready for the first team.

Probably also worth noting that Tierney, their only youth development "success" in recent times, left Celtic a physically broken player, likely as a result of being overplayed and rushed back from various injuries during his time there.

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Originally Posted by Eirambler

Probably also worth noting that Tierney, their only youth development "success" in recent times, left Celtic a physically broken player, likely as a result of being overplayed and rushed back from various injuries during his time there.

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So we've gone from Celtic not giving young players a enough playing time to Celtic overplaying them....

Also, is Callum McGregor not considered a youth development "success"?
50+ caps and two Euro tournaments for Scotland, 90+ appearances in the Champions & Europa Leagues, numerous trophies, never lost a cup final in his career to date (Yes, it's in Scottish football but still impressive).

We haven't got a central midfielder even close to McGregor's ability or leadership.

How good are you if you can't get in to the Celtic team ~ Celtic midfield in this case ?

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Originally Posted by MylesNotMiley

So we've gone from Celtic not giving young players a enough playing time to Celtic overplaying them....

Also, is Callum McGregor not considered a youth development "success"?
50+ caps and two Euro tournaments for Scotland, 90+ appearances in the Champions & Europa Leagues, numerous trophies, never lost a cup final in his career to date (Yes, it's in Scottish football but still impressive).

We haven't got a central midfielder even close to McGregor's ability or leadership.

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So, two players in the last 15 years or so constitutes a success?

And the point was Celtics development of young players is at fault, so yes, overplaying Tierney is an issue there too.

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Originally Posted by seanfhear

How good are you if you can't get in to the Celtic team ~ Celtic midfield in this case ?

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You'd want to be international class since all 3 starting center mids that start for celtic are full international for Scotland, Denmark and Japan.

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Originally Posted by Rayzor

You'd want to be international class since all 3 starting center mids that start for celtic are full international for Scotland, Denmark and Japan.

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I am sure Celtic have requirements for more than 3 midfielders.

They also have a Norwegian u21, another full Japanese international and look like they are resigning bernardo who is a Portuguese u21 international.

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Originally Posted by nigel-harps1954

So, two players in the last 15 years or so constitutes a success?

And the point was Celtics development of young players is at fault, so yes, overplaying Tierney is an issue there too.

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I'm not saying Celtic's youth system is first class on a par with Ajax.
My argument is Irish players joining Celtic and not making the grade isn't the clubs fault - the players just weren't good enough.

The Irish lads I mentioned aren't exactly tearing up trees since they left the club.
If anything Celtic's scouting system needs improving if they thought Afolabi, O'Connor & Kenny etc were ever going to be top level players.

If Lawal is good enough he'll get gametime at Celtic just like O'Riley, Ajer and all the others I mentioned.

One of the issues Celtic face now is a lot of their top academy players are being offfered more money in England and Celtic can't afford to pay that level of wages to lads that may or may not be a success.

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Originally Posted by nigel-harps1954

Fimpong came out of Man City academy, 19 years old, almost 20, and went straight into the first team squad.

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Signed almost to the day Frimpong joined Celtic - Lee O'Connor came out of the Man Utd academy 19 years old and wasn't good enough.

Frimpong now plays for the Champions of Germany and O'Connor is in and out of the Tranmere Rovers first team.

That's not Celtic's fault.

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Originally Posted by MylesNotMiley

So we've gone from Celtic not giving young players a enough playing time to Celtic overplaying them....

Also, is Callum McGregor not considered a youth development "success"?
50+ caps and two Euro tournaments for Scotland, 90+ appearances in the Champions & Europa Leagues, numerous trophies, never lost a cup final in his career to date (Yes, it's in Scottish football but still impressive).

We haven't got a central midfielder even close to McGregor's ability or leadership.

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In fairness, if you're having to resort to using a player who is now 31 years old as an example of youth development success, then you've already pretty much lost the argument.

It's now 15 years since McGregor made his Celtic debut.