France V Republic of Ireland - Monday 28th May 2018 - Friendly

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Originally Posted by OwlsFan

On the positive side some new players were blooded which is what people have been calling for in friendlies. I was a bit embarrassed though by our performance in the first half though where we couldn't keep the ball, O'Dowda in particular being guilty in this respect. For me though the highlight was seeing both Coleman (Seamus to Stutts) and Judge back on the field after horrific leg breaks. Delighted for them both. We can build on the 2nd half performance and might have even nicked one in the end. For all their possession Doyle was called on to make only 3 saves (ignoring the one that wasn't a save). We have to work on our set pieces since we're going to get too many chances in open play.

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Glad you used the word 'embarrassed' because I have now reached the point where I don't mind saying in public (and particularly to non-Irish people) that I'm embarassed by my country's football team. In fact saying we have a national 'football' team is quite a contradiction at this point as we don't play anything even approaching the game of football as the rest of the world knows it. Hoofing the ball is the only way we know how and we can blame Martin O'Neill all we want but he is not responsible for the breeding these players 20 years ago. Nothing good will happen in Irish football during the next long while, thanks to the careful and meticulous planning we put into our coaching system (yeah right) two decades ago.

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Originally Posted by mark12345

Glad you used the word 'embarrassed' because I have now reached the point where I don't mind saying in public (and particularly to non-Irish people) that I'm embarassed by my country's football team. In fact saying we have a national 'football' team is quite a contradiction at this point as we don't play anything even approaching the game of football as the rest of the world knows it. Hoofing the ball is the only way we know how and we can blame Martin O'Neill all we want but he is not responsible for the breeding these players 20 years ago. Nothing good will happen in Irish football during the next long while, thanks to the careful and meticulous planning we put into our coaching system (yeah right) two decades ago.

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Martin O’Neill is to blame, all these players would be dropped if they did any of the **** they do for Ireland for their clubs.

Attend Ireland training sessions and all the players do is try pot shots at the keeper and do random and go for run maybe the odd 11 v 11 random game I.e stuff you’d see at under 9s. Then throw in the fact that the players don’t even know the players they are playing with until an hour before kick off and what do people expect, literally all a team has to do is prepare for us like Denmark did and we are screwed. Martin can’t control the players he has but what he can control is the organisation, tactics, moral of the team and that is all completely non exsistent, and looking at the friendlies nothing has changed in the slightest. People are deluded think he isn’t responsible for this.

I was a "bit embarrassed" by the first half performance not by the team. We have some reasonable players in the side and I thought we could have done a lot better. Not long ago an Irish side under MON gave the French a game in the Euros on their home soil. The performance wasn't all down to the long ball. I remember a number of times when for simple throw ins the ball was misplaced for the return pass. The French have some of the best players in the world so I wasn't expecting a huge amount but I thought we could have done better in some of the basics. Basics which I have seen those players easily do in the English league.

Shaun Williams is 31, the last player to make his international debut at 31 was David Forde.

Good point - these players cant do what they do every week in the English league

Take Burnley as an example they have relied on a largely British and Irish squad who are well disciplined and well drilled - round pegs in round holes.
Players know what’s expected they support each other and press as a team when the opposition has the ball , when they regain it they are all available to receive the ball , they are all comfortable on the ball and they break as a team.
They are no longer grinding out results and fighting for survival, they are beating teams on their own terms and deserve their place at the top of the table ..
So how is it that the Burnley team can field 4 Irish players that fit into this system and flourish yet when they pull on a green shirt they can only manage to play hoof ball and the ball becomes a hot potato that everyone needs to get rid of or avoid.

Leadership has to be taken into consideration the team need a strategy to follow and a plan to execute on the pitch and each and every one of the players need to know whats expected , what the role is what they need to do when with / without the ball. Its not exactly rocket science is it ?

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Originally Posted by Cathalsmart

Martin O’Neill is to blame, all these players would be dropped if they did any of the **** they do for Ireland for their clubs.

Attend Ireland training sessions and all the players do is try pot shots at the keeper and do random and go for run maybe the odd 11 v 11 random game I.e stuff you’d see at under 9s. Then throw in the fact that the players don’t even know the players they are playing with until an hour before kick off and what do people expect, literally all a team has to do is prepare for us like Denmark did and we are screwed. Martin can’t control the players he has but what he can control is the organisation, tactics, moral of the team and that is all completely non exsistent, and looking at the friendlies nothing has changed in the slightest. People are deluded think he isn’t responsible for this.

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All of that may be true about Martin O'Neill (in fact if it is it is quite revealing) but none of that changes the fact that our players do not have the basic skills needed for the international game. Place yourself on the pitch for Ireland the other night. If you lashed the ball long the first eight or nine times, and there was no reward, would you continue to do it? I don't think so. I mean we live in a time where you only need to reach for the remote to see 'proper' football being played. Surely the Irish players have 'reached for the remote control' in their own living rooms, once or twice in the past few years? They know how the game is supposed to be played (ie keep possession of the ball as much as you can because giving it away to the other team means you have to go chasing for it for long periods, and the team with the ball is more likely to create chances than the team without it) and yet they are powerless to play a proper game of football.

Does Martin O'Neill say to his players - I want all of you lads to bury any skills and technique you might have and just play the most basic caveman game imaginable? We are assuming then that O'Neill doesn't want to win any of these games his team is involved in, if indeed he takes this approach? O'Neill can in no way be blamed for the lack of intelligence of his players (admittedly we could do with a decent striker or two, but even then would we ever get them the ball?)

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Originally Posted by OwlsFan

I was a "bit embarrassed" by the first half performance not by the team. We have some reasonable players in the side and I thought we could have done a lot better. Not long ago an Irish side under MON gave the French a game in the Euros on their home soil. The performance wasn't all down to the long ball. I remember a number of times when for simple throw ins the ball was misplaced for the return pass. The French have some of the best players in the world so I wasn't expecting a huge amount but I thought we could have done better in some of the basics. Basics which I have seen those players easily do in the English league.

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Basics which we have all seen our players do week in week out in England. Bottom line we are being left behind, way behind. I watched Wales play Mexico the other night. The Welsh played Mexico off the pitch at different points of this game and all through smart movement and well placed passes. They are even able to do it at a high tempo now, probably because they have been doing it for the last couple of years.

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Originally Posted by mark12345

All of that may be true about Martin O'Neill (in fact if it is it is quite revealing) but none of that changes the fact that our players do not have the basic skills needed for the international game. Place yourself on the pitch for Ireland the other night. If you lashed the ball long the first eight or nine times, and there was no reward, would you continue to do it? I don't think so. I mean we live in a time where you only need to reach for the remote to see 'proper' football being played. Surely the Irish players have 'reached for the remote control' in their own living rooms, once or twice in the past few years? They know how the game is supposed to be played (ie keep possession of the ball as much as you can because giving it away to the other team means you have to go chasing for it for long periods, and the team with the ball is more likely to create chances than the team without it) and yet they are powerless to play a proper game of football.

Does Martin O'Neill say to his players - I want all of you lads to bury any skills and technique you might have and just play the most basic caveman game imaginable? We are assuming then that O'Neill doesn't want to win any of these games his team is involved in, if indeed he takes this approach? O'Neill can in no way be blamed for the lack of intelligence of his players (admittedly we could do with a decent striker or two, but even then would we ever get them the ball?)

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I’m sorry but that’s just rubbish, the players are literally thrown together last minute and are expected to challenge against a WC contender, i Just find it quite interesting how people say Irish players don’t have the basic skill for international football yet the North for example do, what’s the common denominator in all this??? One manager prepares his team the other doesn’t, one is young and progressive and understands modern football, the other doesn’t.

Can’t believe people are actually trying to defend O’Neill here, these players regularly can do things most other NT our level do for their clubs yet when they play for this manager it’s all gone. It’s Martins JOB to get make these players play better and if anything they play even worse.

I don't think we can read too much into a friendly away to France in which we tried to blood some new players.

It was ugly alright, but games like that don't bother me too much.

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Originally Posted by osarusan

I don't think we can read too much into a friendly away to France in which we tried to blood some new players.

It was ugly alright, but games like that don't bother me too much.

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Away to Turkey wasn’t much better, was pretty much a standard Ireland match, losing 1-0 + without really putting up much of a fight.

Seriously think teams should consider putting a cardboard cut out of a goalkeeper and place it on the goal line, then they could field an extra player, I mean it took 200+ mins for us to have a shot on target and considering almost 180 of that was a friendly that is quite tragic. Really hope Irish fans stop going to games, it’s the only possible way we can send a message to the FAI, (I know the in reality won’t care but attending matches will just encourage them to keep MON hired).

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Originally Posted by Cathalsmart

I’m sorry but that’s just rubbish, the players are literally thrown together last minute and are expected to challenge against a WC contender, i Just find it quite interesting how people say Irish players don’t have the basic skill for international football yet the North for example do, what’s the common denominator in all this??? One manager prepares his team the other doesn’t, one is young and progressive and understands modern football, the other doesn’t.

Can’t believe people are actually trying to defend O’Neill here, these players regularly can do things most other NT our level do for their clubs yet when they play for this manager it’s all gone. It’s Martins JOB to get make these players play better and if anything they play even worse.

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Just watch tomorrow night as basically an academy team along with maybe 2 or 3 others play us off the park, maybe that will send you the message.

So... we continue to be no worse than Italy: https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/44061100.

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Originally Posted by samhaydenjr

So... we continue to be no worse than Italy: https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/44061100.

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Well, apart from their 43% possession, the fifteen efforts at goal and six on target.

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Originally Posted by samhaydenjr

So... we continue to be no worse than Italy: https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/44061100.

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Italy had more shots on goal than we will probably have for the remainder of this calander year...

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Originally Posted by Cathalsmart

I’m sorry but that’s just rubbish, the players are literally thrown together last minute and are expected to challenge against a WC contender, i Just find it quite interesting how people say Irish players don’t have the basic skill for international football yet the North for example do, what’s the common denominator in all this??? One manager prepares his team the other doesn’t, one is young and progressive and understands modern football, the other doesn’t.

Can’t believe people are actually trying to defend O’Neill here, these players regularly can do things most other NT our level do for their clubs yet when they play for this manager it’s all gone. It’s Martins JOB to get make these players play better and if anything they play even worse.

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Not defending O'Neill for one second. You are missing the point. You can have the worst manager in the world or the best, but it eventually comes down to basic skills and technique, intelligence, and pride in your performance. And I'm not saying for one second that the North are better than us. They aren't, they're worse. Between the two teams we had one creative player over the past few years - Wes H. And look how much game time he got

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Originally Posted by Cathalsmart

Just watch tomorrow night as basically an academy team along with maybe 2 or 3 others play us off the park, maybe that will send you the message.

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Well they didn't.

The results under O'Neill by and large haven't been bad and some have been excellent. Many (not all) of the performances have been poor but I will always go for results over performances. The question of course is can the performances be better if we change our style AND also get the results. MON obviously thinks not. I don't know because it's like looking in to a cloudy crystal ball. However, to hope that MON is going to change his style of play is probably futile as a leopard never changes his spots. He's hasn't had a bad career as a manager by and large (not always) humping the ball forward. Of course it's more enjoyable watching the ball being passed forward (I don't mean keeper to Duffy to Clarke to Coleman to Duffy back to keeper wham up the field) but I'd only enjoy it if we were successful doing it. Of course, nothing ventured, nothing gained.

I'd accept primitive football all day long too if it brought results. However, I think there's broad correlation between being able to play a more competent passing and pressing game and results at this level though. I think results have been a mixed bag and the more disappointing results - notably failure to win home games against our peers and a really poor away performance in Tbilisi - have been directly down to having no finesse to our play.

We were a bit lucky to beat Georgia at home with a really crap performance and even though we won, we were blessed that Austria missed an injury time sitter to equalise. We were just about worth 2-2 in Belgrade but for 50-60 mins we were abject muck after scoring early and then failing to test a rookie keeper full of nerves.

In the last campaign I think Moldova x2 were ok, Serbia for half a game out of 2 was OK, Wales away was OK, Austria away was generally very good and our best away win for 30 years, Wales and Austria at home were awful.

Denmark away can maybe be justified by a result-justifies-the-means rationale (though I think we should aim for an away goal in a KO tie) and home was catastrophically bad.

The previous campaign was also good in parts, but only in parts. In this campaign we left a lot of points on the table with some pretty poor performances. This is particularly galling given O'Neill's reputation as a big game motivator. We looked sedated for the first half against Austria.

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Originally Posted by Mark12345

And I'm not saying for one second that the North are better than us. They aren't, they're worse

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Our overall records over quite a long period (4 years, 26 competitive games each) are almost identical.

Going back a bit further, we haven't been beaten by three in such a game since 2011.

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Originally Posted by Gather round

Our overall records over quite a long period (4 years, 26 competitive games each) are almost identical.

Going back a bit further, we haven't been beaten by three in such a game since 2011.

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This is our forum. Around these parts we're better than you. Evidence doesn't even come into it.

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

This is our forum. Around these parts we're better than you. Evidence doesn't even come into it.

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I'd be more concerned how he must have some algorithm on his browser which notifies him when there's a critical comment made against the North in any thread on this forum.