LoI Fixture 6-7 April

I am way too long in the tooth for blinkered "my club can do no wrong" bull5hit. I hate that kind of tribalism. It's childish and pretty pathetic.

It's pretty clear there was some knuckle-headed stuff going on from both clubs, but the following does not seem to be in dispute in any account so far:

- Héry is time-wasting.

- This infuriates Caulfield, who enters the field of play. This is presented by Cork fans as him just retrieving the ball, and by Waterford fans as more aggressive than this. There is photographic evidence on the web. I leave it to others to make their own mind up. The incursion is not in dispute though.

- Héry reacts by pushing Caulfield.

- Cork's team and bench reacts to the push.

- Waterford's team and bench reacts to the Cork reaction.

Now, if this is the accurate sequence of events, as it appears to be, whilst the behaviour of everyone should be under scrutiny and is not beyond criticism, the trigger is Caulfield's entry on to the field of play. Some will point to Héry's time-wasting, but this strikes me as a red herring, as players time waste at the end of every game, everywhere, now and always. It's a punishable offence, based on the referee's judgement. But as a manager, you can't react by coming on the pitch. People's behaviour from that point on was poor and I would not wish to excuse it, but the trigger is obvious.

I expect a touch line ban for Caulfield, and three game suspensions for those that received red cards. Harder to know the fate of Alan Reynolds, as his role is less clear.

Funny how two groups of people can see the same incident and see it completely differently. Football eh.

The 'brawl' incident started with the waterford bench, and Reynolds, refusing to give the ball back to Griffin. Hery kicked it away, Caulfield went on the pitch to get it for a quick throw, Hery pushed him over, everyone piled on. Reynolds, Caulfield, Hery, Aborah, Buckley and Beattie all sent off.

Caulfield was sent off for encroachment, which he shouldn't have done and he admits. The 'tackle' rubbish above is nonsense.

Not sure what Reynolds was off for, maybe refusing to give the ball back initially, or maybe he got involved later?
Players reacted idiotically, we're lucky with the 2 that ended up sent off. Beattie hasn't been playing and we're better when Buckley doesn't play.
Waterford will miss Hery for the couple of games, he was excellent.
Sounds like the antics continued down the tunnel too so who knows what will come of it

Apart from the idiotic handbags from man children, we dominated the first half and should have put it to bed. We can't keep missing the chances we're missing if we're to have any hope of winning anything.

At the other end, stupid goals to be giving away too.

We haven't clicked at all this season yet, players are being played out of position and we haven't yet put in a decent performance for a full 90. It's a bit mad that there's only 2 points in it given that.

Enjoyed the dundalk rovers game, good open game. Happy to see Dundalks clean sheet record gone anyway. Rovers have a lot of potential but they'll win nothing without a decent keeper. It's every game at this point.

Dundalk are in an excellent position now. Starting to click, playing well, and none of the rest seeming to play particularly well at the moment. Can't say I'm looking forward to the Dundalk Rovers Friday Monday games in a few weeks, the way we're currently playing.

Vigouroix was sent here on loan despite been Swindons player of the season in league one last year because he’d a falling out with the manager at Christmas and he then refused to pick him. Power is paying his wages and his the highest paid player in league in reportedly on £4,000 a week, Power turned down a bid for £450,000 in January as he rates him highly and has a bigger fee on him. Power sent him over here to get game time, I don’t think the management had much of a say. Regardless he’s better then what’s here and the best in the league in my opinion. He is the third player to come on loan from Swindon since Power took over. The previous two were for half a season and this is said to be that length also.

Personally I’ve only seen Colbert once this season didn’t really fancy him but he’s still young and has time on his side.

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

They've sent lots of players on loan over there (I don't know why exactly, but that's a different thread!)

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I'm open to correction, but I think there's only been three sent on loan. Tom Smith (who played very well in the first half of last season, but was then recalled); some other lad whose name I've forgotten, who made no impact; and Vigouroux.

Thought it was an excellent game last night at oriel park. Two sides getting stuck into each other and both having decent spells being on top, good MF battle too with Benson/Shields v Bolger/Finn. I thought Shields was excellent, he put in some amount of work, his only flaw is that odd poor pass but he fairly covers the ground to make up for that, his first league goal in 5 years too I heard.

I wouldn't blame the Rovers keeper for the first goal, that had a fair bit of power in the first shot, but he was dreadful for the second, nothing more than a probing cross by Shields and on the ground.

Rovers might consider themselves unlucky not have got anything out of the game, that was a good spell for them last 20 and they also hit the bar, but Dundalk hit the woodwork twice and managed the game out and deserved the win. I also have the feeling Dundalk haven't fully got into gear yet, but nice to get back on top of the table after 9 games, even on GD which shows how hard it has been.

Ps ridiculous comments earlier bout Rogers, he's still the only keeper in the country yet to concede a league goal who has played in every game up to last night. He'll also rack up one of the highest euro appearances this season, comparisons to other keepers is fine, but you have to take into account achievements also, 3 titles for Rogers for starters.

On the Waterford v Cork game, will be very interesting to see the highlights and bans handed out for that chaos at the end, any manager coming onto the pitch and to get involved in those type of incidents can expect to get a lengthy ban.

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Originally Posted by gormacha

I'm open to correction, but I think there's only been three sent on loan. Tom Smith (who played very well in the first half of last season, but was then recalled); some other lad whose name I've forgotten, who made no impact; and Vigouroux.

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Jake Evans?

Both Tom Smith and Jake Evans played in 3-0 defeat by Dundalk in the 2017 EA Sports Cup quarter final in Oriel Park. Smith was decent and Evans anonymous. Great travelling support that night from Waterford

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Originally Posted by gormacha

I'm open to correction, but I think there's only been three sent on loan. Tom Smith (who played very well in the first half of last season, but was then recalled); some other lad whose name I've forgotten, who made no impact; and Vigouroux.

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Fair enough. It feels like more. Smith was very good alright, albeit in the First Division. Vigoroux is definitely an unusually high-profile player for the LoI. (Played for Liverpool against UCD back in 2015 incidentally, and possibly against Waterford too, as ye played Liverpool a few days before we did)

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Originally Posted by Ezeikial

Jake Evans?

Both Tom Smith and Jake Evans played in 3-0 defeat by Dundalk in the 2017 EA Sports Cup quarter final in Oriel Park. Smith was decent and Evans anonymous. Great travelling support that night from Waterford

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Yes, that was his name. Nice spot. Seemed game enough, but made no impact. Got played a bit in pre-season (did ok v Limerick iirc) and in the League Cup, may even have made a couple of league appearances, but made little headway.

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Vigoroux is definitely an unusually high-profile player for the LoI.

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Indeed he is. The relative performance of the two keepers was the difference between the sides against Shamrock Rovers. We're obviously resigned to losing him in the English off season, but make hay whilst etc.

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Originally Posted by micls

Caulfield was sent off for encroachment, which he shouldn't have done and he admits. The 'tackle' rubbish above is nonsense.

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There's quite a number of videos and photos doing the rounds of Caulfields tackle on Hery.

https://foot.ie/attachment.php?attachmentid=2662&stc=1

? That's a photo of Hery pushing Caulfield over. He's falling backwards, hence the leg up. Would be great to see a decent video of you have a link though?

Edit : looking at a grainy video and looks like you're right, it is from the before the push.

A manager on the field of play, tackling, and fouling a player?

Caulfield has got away with disgraceful behaviour on the touchline for years. It is no wonder he thinks he can get away with this.

This is the clearest video Ive seen https://www.facebook.com/michael.moc...3690816664710/. Caulfield in for a long ban i think, as are a few others.

'Hostile' atmospheres away from home don't suit him, he complained of this in Dundalk last month too, good luck to him going away to a tough euro team if thinks Irish grounds are challenging.

Can't see specifically what Aborah, Beattie Buckley or Reynolds specifically did for the reds, but they were all riled up. Ref did the usual, send off the same amount from each side stuff.

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Originally Posted by micls

Can't see specifically what Aborah, Beattie Buckley or Reynolds specifically did for the reds, but they were all riled up. Ref did the usual, send off the same amount from each side stuff.

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Was that Mark McNulty in the thick of things a couple of seconds in? The lad has a quick pair of heels.

I suspect the FAI will throw the book at both Hery and Caulfield. That will hurt Waterford a lot more than Cork. Everything else looks like handbags, though the TV coverage might show up more details.

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Originally Posted by White Horse

Was that Mark McNulty in the thick of things a couple of seconds in? The lad has a quick pair of heels.

I suspect the FAI will throw the book at both Hery and Caulfield. That will hurt Waterford a lot more than Cork. Everything else looks like handbags, though the TV coverage might show up more details.

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Looked like everyone was in there, saw the Waterford keeper too.

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Originally Posted by White Horse

Caulfield has got away with disgraceful behaviour on the touchline for years. It is no wonder he thinks he can get away with this.

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I keep seeing this argument being made with no examples given. For what it's worth the most egregious sideline behaviour I've seen this season, last night aside, was Bradley at the Cross and nothing was done about it.

Saw another video of the incident, or the aftermath. As Buckley is walking to the tunnel after he gets his red, a Waterford player comes up to him and starts on him unprovoked. Don't know who the Waterford player is.

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I suspect the FAI will throw the book at both Hery and Caulfield. That will hurt Waterford a lot more than Cork.

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Agree. Buckley seeing red might force Caulfield to drop this notion of playing McNamee wide right to accommodate him too.

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Originally Posted by micls

Looked like everyone was in there, saw the Waterford keeper too.

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That's clearly not the case. As the brawl starts, McNulty is immediately in the fray - running from his goal, straight into the action, when he has to be pulled away. In contrast, the camera shows Vigeroux walking slowly towards the crowd of players without ever actually getting to where the brawl is going on. He then says something to Caulfield, and then runs back to his goal, where he remains.

I say this not in a "my club did nothing wrong" sense (I think Héry was wrong to push Caulfield, for example), but to point out that your comment is totally inaccurate.

Is it not possible to look at events and accurately call out poor behaviour, even when it comes from your own club? And to avoid inaccurately calling out a blameless player?

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Originally Posted by gormacha

That's clearly not the case. As the brawl starts, McNulty is immediately in the fray - running from his goal, straight into the action, when he has to be pulled away. In contrast, the camera shows Vigeroux walking slowly towards the crowd of players without ever actually getting to where the brawl is going on. He then says something to Caulfield, and then runs back to his goal, where he remains.

I say this not in a "my club did nothing wrong" sense (I think Héry was wrong to push Caulfield, for example), but to point out that your comment is totally inaccurate.

Is it not possible to look at events and accurately call out poor behaviour, even when it comes from your own club? And to avoid inaccurately calling out a blameless player?

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Bizarre. I said I saw the Waterford keeper involved too,he did come up to get involved, for whatever reason. You said yourself he said something to caulfield. What do you think he was doing? Asking him how he was feeling?

There was also more than just Hery with blame on your side. Both sides acted like a gang of schoolchildren. They didn't even let it go as players were trying to walk down the tunnel. Aborah tried to get started on Buckley as he tried to walk off, and was pulled away by ye're staff. There were idiots on both sides.

Nults saw his manager get pushed and ran in, along with every other one of our players. Hardly a surprise, although I wish the lot of them had a bit more sense.

I have no issue calling put poor behaviour from our side, I think they were all absolute morons.

I imagine Caulfield and Hery are in for serious bans. The others sent off it will depend on what video is around, didn't see what they did really