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FWIW I think we've a better midfield and defence, they've better goalkeepers and the strikers are about even, apart from Robbie KeaneQuote:
Originally Posted by Olé Olé
Incidentally, McGregor was on loan at Notts County last season and had a similar record to Grealish while he was there
I think credit where it's due, Scotland have got some very good results in the last year and as AB rightly says, they are further in their evolution as a team under Strachan than we are under MON. But if they can get results like they have with a squad like that - albeit missing Brown, Snodgrass and maybe some others - there really is no reason to think that we can't string a run of results together. Yer man Robertson looked particularly vulnerable for Hull yesterday.
Yeah, but they can only play one of them :)Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
Ok, who'd get in a combined Ireland / Scotland team?
Their keeper(s)...
hmmm, good questionQuote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
Code:Scotland Ireland Combined Omitted
Rob Elliott(Newcastle FC)
Goalkeepers Name Stephen Kelly(Reading FC)
Craig Gordon (Celtic) David Forde(Millwall FC) Craig Gordon (Celtic) Shane Duffy(Everton FC)
David Marshall (Cardiff City) Keiren Westwood(Sheffield Wednesday)David Marshall (Cardiff City) Alex Pearce(Reading FC)
Alan McGregor (Hull City) Darren Randolph(Birmingham City FC) David Forde(Millwall FC) Darron Gibson(Everton FC)
James McClean(Wigan FC)
Defenders
Christophe Berra (Ipswich Town) Richard Keogh(Derby County FC) Seamus Coleman(Everton FC)
Craig Forsyth (Derby County) Marc Wilson(Stoke City FC) John O’Shea(Sunderland AFC)
Gordon Greer (Brighton and Hove Albion) Seamus Coleman(Everton FC) Marc Wilson(Stoke City FC)
Grant Hanley (Blackburn Rovers) John O’Shea(Sunderland AFC) Joey O’Brien(West Ham FC)
Alan Hutton (Aston Villa) Stephen Ward(Burnley FC) Christophe Berra (Ipswich Town)
Russell Martin (Norwich City) Paul McShane(Hull City) Paul McShane(Hull City)
Andrew Robertson (Hull City) Damien Delaney(Crystal Palace FC) Richard Keogh(Derby County FC)
Steven Whittaker (Norwich City) Joey O’Brien(West Ham FC) Damien Delaney(Crystal Palace FC)
Midfielders
Ikechi Anya (Watford) James McCarthy(Everton FC) James McCarthy(Everton FC)
Barry Bannan (Crystal Palace) Jeff Hendrick(Derby County FC) Jeff Hendrick(Derby County FC)
Craig Bryson (Derby County) Ciaran Clark(Aston Villa FC) Glenn Whelan(Stoke City FC)
Chris Burke (Nottingham Forest) Glenn Whelan(Stoke City FC) Aiden McGeady(Everton FC)
Graham Dorrans (West Bromwich Albion) Andy Reid(Nottingham Forest FC) David Meyler(Hull City FC)
Darren Fletcher (Manchester United) Aiden McGeady(Everton FC) Wes Hoolahan(Norwich City FC)
Shaun Maloney (Wigan Athletic) Anthony Pilkington(Cardiff City) Darren Fletcher (Manchester United)
James McArthur (Wigan Athletic) Robbie Brady(Hull City FC) Graham Dorrans (West Bromwich Albion)
Kevin McDonald (Wolverhampton Wanderers) Stephen Quinn(Hull City FC) Charlie Mulgrew (Celtic)
Callum McGregor (Celtic) David Meyler(Hull City FC) Shaun Maloney (Wigan Athletic)
James Morrison (West Bromwich Albion) Wes Hoolahan(Norwich City FC) James McArthur (Wigan Athletic)
Charlie Mulgrew (Celtic) Andy Reid(Nottingham Forest FC)
Forwards
Steven Fletcher (Sunderland) Robbie Keane(LA Galaxy FC) Robbie Keane(LA Galaxy FC)
Chris Martin (Derby County) Shane Long(Southampton FC) Shane Long(Southampton FC)
Steven Naismith (Everton) Daryl Murphy(Ipswich Town FC) Steven Fletcher (Sunderland)
Jon Walters(Stoke City FC) Steven Naismith (Everton)
Kevin Doyle(Wolves) Anthony Stokes(Celtic FC)
Anthony Stokes(Celtic FC)
Simon Cox(Reading FC)
That's true. Marshall was impressive last season and has been over-looked by Scotland quite frequently during his career. I remember him and Rab Douglas on those great Champions League nights under Martin O'Neill.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
Still though, Forde doesn't make too many c*ck-ups and pulls off a decent share of good saves. Difficult to quantify how much better off we'd be if we had Marshall between the sticks instead of Forde.
Is it fair to say that Coleman is the best player out of the two squads? James McCarthy is next, in my opinion. I'd be hard-pressed to pick the third. Robbie Keane has had a career that everyone on the two squads could be enviable of (no jokes about money and childhood dreams now, please and thanks).
Sorry Tets, I'm not sure I can read that extract properly. Is there a selection in there or just a long list of names?!
Marshall was one of the best keepers in the EPL last season, amazed he's still at Cardiff. Plus Gordon/McGregor are probably both better than Forde et al.
Elsewhere it looks a lot more equal.
Strangely enough, no McCormack/Rhodes who're comparable to what we have...Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsujin1979
:(
Eh? We have lots of Championship strikers. We have also have a few strikers who are a lot better.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
Really? McCormack just went for 11 million, nearly as daft a price as Long and Rhodes is one of the hottest properties outside the EPL...
No-one says that about Cox, Doyle or Murphy.
Yes, McCormack just moved for £11 million to a club dead last in the Championship, who have scored two goals all season, neither of which came from him. Rhodes isn't one of the hottest properties at all, he has one team that are interested in him and are only looking at him because they stupidly sold their best striker and are now panicking and likely to pay well over the odds. The player he's replacing, mind you... We have lots of players who will score goals in the Championship, it's not something we need to be jealous of Scotland for having.
McCormack for 11 million was an exponentially dafter price than Long, IMO.
More Scottish players scored in the last round of matches than Irish players did combined since the start of the season. Craig Bryson scored more than any Irish striker last season. Jordan Rhodes, Ross McCormack and Chris Martin all score goals for fun at that level. Only Murphy comes close for us.
Last season may turn out to be an anomaly for McCormack but he has been playing out of position under Magath.
I think McCormack is a good player and I like Maloney. Both have a bit of class, like Reid and Hoolahan. We also have Brady and McGeady. I like James MacArthur too. Apart from their keepers I don't really see anyone who's a cut above what we have but I think a few of ours have something over and above what they have. For example, I reckon Stokes would a certainty for their squad. His position in ours is precarious.
I think McCormack was bought by a club that genuinely thought they'd be in the mix for a quick promotion and was bought as a proven upper end championship performer. Was 11m that daft in that context? Fulham have some nice EPL parachute instalments due.
Bryson is 27 and last season was the first time he's scored more than 6 goals in his career. McCormack is 28 and has had three exceptional, non-consecutive seasons but again apart from those years he hasn't broken 5 goals in a season. Martin, again, one exceptional season and never broke 7 outside that. Rhodes has a very good record and is the only one who can say he's consistently done it at that level. They're good players but the amount of respect they get from some people you'd expect them to be world-beaters.
I don't think anybody is calling them world beaters.
Scottish fans probably look at some of our players and think we overhype them. Most Derby fans would probably have Craig Bryson in the team ahead of Jeff Hendrick. Kris Commons, a midfielder, is a more proficient scorer than Anthony Stokes at SPL level. Wes Hoolahan and Andy Reid are 32 and not judged good enough to play at PL level. Steven Fletcher and Steven Naismith score more frequently than Shane Long in the PL. We don't have any LB's coming through. They have several. The young talent in the SPL (Gauld) are more exciting prospects than what's coming through in the Irish league (Forrester, Towell); even Brian Lenihan is 20 years old already and on the verge of a move to the Championship. Ironically, if Scotland had McCarthy and McGeady, that would probably be enough to make them stronger than us.
Seamus Coleman is probably our highest rated player but he had problems fitness and form wise before he exploded last season, and even then he was patchy towards the end of the season.
IMO we are neck and neck with Scotland. The one part of their team that is noticeably weaker than ours is their defence but we are a couple of injuries away from having Ward, Keogh and McShane in the team. The injury to Snodgrass is a very positive development but this is balanced by the return to action of Darren Fletcher. We cannot rest on our laurels in that regard anyway as we have several injury prone players/playing with injections.
I believe our inability/Scotland's ability to beat big teams could cost us. Fair enough Scotland drop points against the smaller nations, but I think that they will be more clinical under Strachan, as the memories of the Levein era slowly dissipate in the murky highland fog.
Our performances against smaller nations have been steadily decreasing in quality, in any event.
I said the way they're talked about you'd expect them to be brilliant when the reality is they have a few players who all happened to have very good seasons at the same time.
Most Derby fans would have Bryson in instead of Hendrick? Maybe that's why they're not the coach. Commons ahead of Stokes, so what? How many caps does Stokes have? From what I've heard from Celtic fans nobody would be too upset if Commons was sold (but that might be why they're not the coach). Hoolahan had firm offers from several Premier League teams six months ago, he's easily judged good enough for the Premier League. Gauld and Robertson are absolutely huge talents, but if we had full time football here we'd be the match of them. Lenihan will need 6 months to a year to reach the physical level required of a professional player, something Scottish players don't have to worry about.
I think we're roughly at the same level as Scotland too, but my problem is with the idea they have better options than us anywhere outside of between the sticks.
Derby fans opinions about Craig Bryson carry as much weight as our/Villa fans opinions about Jack Grealish and you have used their opinions to defend Richard Keogh in the past. Personally I would rate Hendrick above the likes of players like Bryson and McArthur - and he is younger - but there has been concrete interest in Bryson and McArthur from the PL while interest in Hendrick has never went beyond paper talk. Important, too, to note that Hendrick's form and fitness suffered before he won his place in the team back at the tail end of last season.Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
Commons hasn't made a splash for Scotland since declaring but you could say the same about Stokes.... Meyler... Hendrick really. Even Hoolahan's International career has only got going.