Poland V Republic of Ireland - Tuesday, 19th November 2013 - Friendly - Poznań

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Originally Posted by SwanVsDalton

Forde has issues with ball at feet, no doubt. Always has, always will - just isn't comfortable. That's partly why he's always so methodical when kicking or collecting the ball. His focus in possession is absolute. I like that he recognises and tries to combat it.

Westwood doesn't bring as much comfort to the backline or take pressure off defenders. On current evidence they're both decent shot stoppers. I think the likelihood of either making a clanger is about the same. Forde has the jersey, and I think that's fair.

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2 hours once a week and 3 weeks of the summer at 33 he should have eradicated this. Place out markers to him, roll the ball back fast and aim for the markers. I cannot understand for the life of me even if he played LOI very long that he can't master this. IT is not an innate ability, its a learned skill.

On the bright side, like many Irish, Forde may never fulfill his potential.

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Originally Posted by jbyrne

i keep hearing this but in 15 games how many goals were his fault?

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Not directly his fault but the 2nd sweden goal he should have done a lot lot better.

A draw in an away game. The Trap era continues.

No Robbie, no goals and the home keeper didn't have one save to make.

Rejuvination of McGeady - way too soon to say that as his crosses were still poor. One swallow does not make a Summer. Seems to be all the trend of the media comments.

Paul Dempsey was almost having an orgasm every time an Irish player closed down the opposition which apparently was unheard of under Trap despite Robbie putting pressure on a centre back and scoring against Slovakia from his weak back-pass.

Good news from that game was we didn't lose and Wilson did the business at centre-half. McCarthy continues to grow in the team.
Bad news - none really except we didn't look like scoring and Walters is not a winger.

Otherwise a game to filed away in the statistics locker.

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Originally Posted by paul_oshea

Not directly his fault but the 2nd sweden goal he should have done a lot lot better.

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really?
clutching at straws to prove your early prediction that he would be an accident waiting to happen.

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

I was a bit disappointed in the selection. I just don't like Walters RHM, even though I think he did well enough.

Forde looked as composed as ever. Kicking from the ground a bit suspect, but that was a dreadful pitch - which matters for a keeper.

I thought Wilson and SSL looked decent at CB. I genuinely think we have no worries in that department. I love how SSL, without any club action, just slots in well any time he is asked. Kelly did fine.

I thought ward had his best game for us, he looks reborn, just like McGeady. Green was better than his club status would suggest. I hope people finally give him credit.

McCarthy is maturing and taking charge more, but still has more in his locker.

Long was decent enough, not great but not bad.

Stokes struggled I thought and he sends the fear of God into me when he drops deep for the ball.

As a team I thought we were cohesive and "modern" for about 55 minutes. There was a passage of play on 28/29 minutes that was as accomplished a passing phase as I have ever seen in an Irish team. It was clear that sending it long was to be added to the mix, but was cleraly not the only tactic. They were allowed to mix it, and that's fine by me.

The last 30 mins or so was Trap era away football all over again though. Midfield stopped showing for it and when under pressure we kept sending it long again.

Set pieces were good.

So, overall: decent enough but work still to do. We need to create more chances from open play.

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Some good points there, I thought the back four were all over the place for the final 10 or so mins after St Ledger went off.

OShea was lucky to stay on the pitch after his Henry impression.

Early days, but it's looking like OShea at CB with any one of four for the other CB place.

Euro 2016 is the target so let's back whoever plays.

COYBIG

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Originally Posted by jbyrne

really?
clutching at straws to prove your early prediction that he would be an accident waiting to happen.

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No, infact looking back i think he probably could have done a bit better on a few other occassions as well.

Its like the Trap thing, ye all lay in the bunkers with helmets on as if nothing was wrong and waited for the inevitable. And because you still might not have registered that, that his approach was going to lead to us getting tonked and it happened.

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Paul Dempsey was almost having an orgasm every time an Irish player closed down the opposition which apparently was unheard of under Trap despite Robbie putting pressure on a centre back and scoring against Slovakia from his weak back-pass

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Don't you mean Macedonia?

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Originally Posted by paul_oshea

Its like the Trap thing, ye all lay in the bunkers with helmets on as if nothing was wrong and waited for the inevitable. And because you still might not have registered that, that his approach was going to lead to us getting tonked and it happened.

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We shall exalt the Oracle of All Wisdom! :p

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Originally Posted by paul_oshea

Its like the Trap thing, ye all lay in the bunkers with helmets on as if nothing was wrong and waited for the inevitable. And because you still might not have registered that, that his approach was going to lead to us getting tonked and it happened.

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In fairness Paul - i recall quite alot of posters on Foot been less than happy about trap and his tactical methods and player selection and this was before the euros and that the same posters were calling for a change in his style of play or otherwise it would ultimately lead to a unhappy ending for our team

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Originally Posted by back of the net

In fairness Paul - i recall quite alot of posters on Foot been less than happy about trap and his tactical methods and player selection

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They were only copying Paul.

It wasn't much of a game to watch fully the day after and knowing it was a scoreless affair. We had a very disjointed set up. At times it looked 4-3-3, other times I couldn't see who was the designated player to receive the ball in the Polish half, it was a free for all. Amongst the positives was a readiness amongst the players to support each other and when a mistake was made or a player getting boxed in, more often than not there was support available.
Apart from Hoolahan and Reid we don't have much on the football technique side. McCarthy can just about get on the front foot but is more direct with his distribution. Reid and Hoolahan are both in the twilight zone and will not always be injury free. That leaves us waiting for Gibson to return. Playing the ball out of our box, passing it on the ground is still a difficult concept when there is some pressing from the opposition.
When McClean sent that ball across the goalmouth, anybody think it was tailor made for Robbie who might have anticipated the whole move and tapped the ball in?

It won't take a brain surgeon of a coach to figure out that Forde's distribution of the ball under pressure is haphazard and every team we play will be under instructions to put him under maximum pressure. His distribution has been poor since his first cap at Lansdowne (against Poland?) where he had to show just how good of a goalie he was to save the situation.
If he's better than Westwood, then fair enough and I suppose the decision would depend a lot on McDonagh's advice who knows about these things.

Whilst Poland are almost as far down in the ranking as us, teams such as England Portugal Greece and Russia could only manage a draw there in the last two years and they beat Denmark.
So a decent result in that respect, OK we didn't look too great second half but then they never really looked like scoring.
A good exercise in looking at number of players to see what they can't do as well as what the can not do.

Latest blog on the first two games here is anyone's interested.

http://afalsefirstxi.blogspot.ie/201...evolution.html

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Originally Posted by DannyInvincible

We shall exalt the Oracle of All Wisdom! :p

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Yes ask geysir for your opinion from now on :P

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Originally Posted by OwlsFan

A draw in an away game. The Trap era continues.

No Robbie, no goals and the home keeper didn't have one save to make.

Rejuvination of McGeady - way too soon to say that as his crosses were still poor. One swallow does not make a Summer. Seems to be all the trend of the media comments.

Paul Dempsey was almost having an orgasm every time an Irish player closed down the opposition which apparently was unheard of under Trap despite Robbie putting pressure on a centre back and scoring against Slovakia from his weak back-pass.

Good news from that game was we didn't lose and Wilson did the business at centre-half. McCarthy continues to grow in the team.
Bad news - none really except we didn't look like scoring and Walters is not a winger.

Otherwise a game to filed away in the statistics locker.

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I'm not one that actually thinks a rejuvenation is required. McGeady has been good for us imo over the last 4 or 5 years. No doubt he has more in his locker but I am more of a supporter than knocker and think his performances and what he brings to the table have been under appreciated by some/most. Anyway, Ill take the bite - I watched on a fairly crappy stream but I actually thought McGeady put in some decent crosses last night. The Paul Green headed chance was a McG cross. The whipped in cross to Wilson on the edge of the box who flicked it inside and it went just beyond Robbie on the backpost are just two examples I can think of. I certainly cant think of (m)any under hit crosses or crosses that didnt beat the first man etc....

There were a couple of really poor free kicks alright but I completely agree with you overall. He's cool on the ball and makes defenders think, sounds basic enough but we don't have any other player who really does that. He's often doubled up on, making his own contribution limited at times but frees up space for others. I'm a big fan overall bar the obvious frustrations.

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Originally Posted by jbyrne

i keep hearing this but in 15 games how many goals were his fault?

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So because he has got away with his countless miscues from back passes, so far, we have no reason to worry? My point was that it can't do much to help create a confident defence. I like Forde by the way and I think he has done well for us for the most part but I'd feel safer with Westwood.

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

I think it was telling that Westwood was given the easier game though. Forde still has it for me.

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You could be right that Forde is No.1 but I'd dispute the logic... is it telling that Coleman or O'Shea started the easier game?

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Originally Posted by geysir

. Amongst the positives was a readiness amongst the players to support each other and when a mistake was made or a player getting boxed in, more often than not there was support available.
Playing the ball out of our box, passing it on the ground is still a difficult concept when there is some pressing from the opposition.

When McClean sent that ball across the goalmouth, anybody think it was tailor made for Robbie who might have anticipated the whole move and tapped the ball in?

It won't take a brain surgeon of a coach to figure out that Forde's distribution of the ball under pressure is haphazard and every team we play will be under instructions to put him under maximum pressure. His distribution has been poor since his first cap at Lansdowne (against Poland?) where he had to show just how good of a goalie he was to save the situation.
If he's better than Westwood, then fair enough and I suppose the decision would depend a lot on McDonagh's advice who knows about these things.

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I put in bold the only real things to take from the game, the core difference was that players supported eachother in tight spaces so the necessity to hoof it forward wasn't required - I still don't understand what Trap was playing at here, hoping to catch on the counter-attack with players not suited to that game or not able to play it. We also harried and pressurised rather than sitback which was another positive, obviously against certain opposition who can counter quickly we need to be wary of this, but they were the 2 main positives I took from the game.

I've seen Robbie get too far forward or fall too far behind for as many of those type crosses that he has scored.

I actually think Fordes kicking is awful, but that's not what worries me most about him. I think his positioning(not for high balls) and agility to get down low, fast and quick is quite poor.

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Originally Posted by paul_oshea

I

I actually think Fordes kicking is awful, but that's not what worries me most about him. I think his positioning(not for high balls) and agility to get down low, fast and quick is quite poor.

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Forde can get down but you say he can't get down fast enough, regardless of measuring the nanosecond involved, it would be very difficult for an opposition to exploit that one.
Whereas it's relatively straightforward for the opposition to keep pressurising him when he has the ball at his feet in the box, to force him into a mistake.

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Originally Posted by paul_oshea

2 hours once a week and 3 weeks of the summer at 33 he should have eradicated this. Place out markers to him, roll the ball back fast and aim for the markers. I cannot understand for the life of me even if he played LOI very long that he can't master this. IT is not an innate ability, its a learned skill.

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You don't think Forde - an international goalkeeper - isn't aware of that? Or hasn't had that coached into him? Of course not. He obviously has worked on aspects of this game, and he certainly isn't negligent or lazy as you've suggested. If he hasn't mastered it, it isn't for lack of work or coaching. And, besides, he has gained ability - he was a lot worse with ball at feet in his Derry days. Improved kicking is learned, but eradicating it completely is not.

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Originally Posted by paul_oshea

No, infact looking back i think he probably could have done a bit better on a few other occassions as well.

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So could every keeper when you hold a microscope over them. Every player in fact. Not to say you shouldn't get forensic but, in context, Forde's performances put him in credit for me.

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Originally Posted by geysir

His distribution has been poor since his first cap at Lansdowne (against Poland?) where he had to show just how good of a goalie he was to save the situation. If he's better than Westwood, then fair enough and I suppose the decision would depend a lot on McDonagh's advice who knows about these things.

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To combine a response to both POS and Geysir: I do think if he's to continue as first choice, management should look to work on this and spur him on. I'd particularly like him to quicken up. Away from home or under the cosh, it's fine to take your time over a kick.

But Forde's actually got a decent throw on him, and occasionally looks to use it - but almost always decides against it, as if it's too risky. Maybe this is a Trap hangover, maybe it's a lack of confidence. But ideally in future we'll look to build play from the back, with defenders/DM's dropping deep to pick up a short pass from the goalie.

This would suit Forde better - at Derry, Kenny looked to play short from the back all the time. But he has to be encouraged to step back from safe long option. And the team has to be dominant enough (most likely at home) to get plenty of time and space in the backline.

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Originally Posted by DeLorean

So because he has got away with his countless miscues from back passes, so far, we have no reason to worry? My point was that it can't do much to help create a confident defence.

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Swings and roundabouts? Forde dominates his area better, I'm sure the centre halves love that and are more confident defending balls into the box because of it.

I think everyone has reason to worry about it, but, likewise, Westwood has had his moments in the past and in context Forde's done well. However bets will be off if Westwood can continue his promising form into next March.