Discussion on a United or re-partitioned Ireland

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Owls Fan

What's with the SDLP and the Unionist Party now going in to opposition? A vote winning tactic or the long spoon isn't long enough anymore to sup with the respective devils.

Gather-Round, surely it was the Civil Rights movement which was the primary catalyst in the 70s, not the IRA, which influenced the closure of Stormont, won One Man One Vote, housing reform et alia

I don't believe that this is a religious issue. A lot of people with no religious leanings whatsoever would not be in favour of abortion. Moral issues don't have to be religious issues

---

I think the SDLP and UUP were right (from their own POV) to leave the Politburo. They had no real influence over its decisions but still got blamed for them. Whether it stops or reverses their decline is up in the air.

The problem particularly for the UUP is that they can't credibly claim to oppose the DUP when still prepared for a no-contest deal with Arlene against their supposed opposition partner ;)

In the last Assembly, there was an Opposition of two: Allister on purely procedural issues, Agnew on social nd economic policy. Widening that out even to four or five people must help. Alliance's attitude will be interesting.

I mentioned SF as one influence on change, among others (including the Civil Rights Movement). But by 1972 I think it was clear that Provo violence was the main factor.

I respect your personal opinion on abortion, but is it really than widely held? In broad terms, people with strong religious faith tend to oppose abortion; supporters of the right to choose, or legal reform etc. tend to be atheist or agnostic.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin

The fact PBP is an all-Ireland party should be proof enough it's a nationalist organisation

---

Like the Green Party, you mean? Your proof is about as strong as ahalf of shandy ;)

You might as well claim that Wolfman living basically his entire life in Britain makes him a UKIP activist.

More nonsense. Plus despise Ukip and don't live in Britain!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gather round

I think TOWK's reference to "the Country" above means just NI, not all Ireland.

---

I see your manager has the same natural instincts as I, although he immediately remembered which side his bread is buttered on and recalibrated: https://twitter.com/RTEsoccer/status/735403536763129856

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DannyInvincible

I see your manager has the same natural instincts as I, although he immediately remembered which side his bread is buttered on and recalibrated: https://twitter.com/RTEsoccer/status/735403536763129856

---

Football manager gives (yet another) bland interview, UI inevitable ;)

I like the idea of a training camp in the South, helps to restore good relations.

The Ballyrosses were rather poor, it should be said.

South Korea?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gather round

The Ballyrosses were rather poor, it should be said.

---

So were the Dutch strangely enough. And I don't mean poor for a Dutch side. I just mean poor

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gather round

I respect your personal opinion on abortion, but is it really than widely held? In broad terms, people with strong religious faith tend to oppose abortion; supporters of the right to choose, or legal reform etc. tend to be atheist or agnostic.

---

I don't happen to agree with these pieces, but they're interesting all the same, on being leftist and opposing abortion rights: http://www.counterpunch.org/2003/01/...-and-the-left/ and http://www.newstatesman.com/lifestyl...any-less-lefty

Bump!

Cretins vote for Brexit. Who knew?

Still increases the likelihood of a UI albeit not straight away.

Expect a vote in the North in the next year or two anyway. I'd imagine there'll be a vote in the south much sooner.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by nigel-harps1954

Expect a vote in the North in the next year or two anyway. I'd imagine there'll be a vote in the south much sooner.

---

A vote on what?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wolfman

Cretins vote for Brexit. Who knew?

Still increases the likelihood of a UI albeit not straight away.

---

The prospect of a united Ireland may seem more tangible this morning but it's still some way off. It would be wiser to wait and see what the SNP do next.

The vote in the south and the north would happen in tandem anyway. First things first, Scotland have to have another go.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wolfman

Still increases the likelihood of a UI albeit not straight away.

---

Does it though? If they vote for independence in the North, couldn't it just as easily create a stronger sense of independence, and decrease the likelihood?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dahamsta

Does it though? If they vote for independence in the North, couldn't it just as easily create a stronger sense of independence, and decrease the likelihood?

---

The North voting for independence?...Ha, no chance.

Not wanting to be controversial, but definitely what Fly said. No way the North could ever be fully independent from either Britain or Ireland.

The "Independent Ulster [sic]" movement was always a fringe element within loyalism, if it still has any serious adherents at all. Nobody considers it a credible option.

Anecdotally, I've seen quite a number of "soft" or "default" unionists declare their serious interest in Irish re-unification on social media and around the web. That's incredible. A seismic shift in outlook overnight.

Really?

I think being locked out of the EU surrounded by loyalist pro-Brexit butters is a sobering thought.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BonnieShels

Really?

I think being locked out of the EU surrounded by loyalist pro-Brexit butters is a sobering thought.

---

butters?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BonnieShels

Really?

I think being locked out of the EU surrounded by loyalist pro-Brexit butters is a sobering thought.

---

Quite a few on Twitter, NI Reddit and Slugger O'Toole. When Scotland goes, that'll be it. A Protestant from unionist community in Belfast told me (paraphrasing) that the referendum was the last straw for him. He suggested England was now "officially a racist country" and that he didn't want to be part of that. If there was a border poll tomorrow, he said he was 80 per cent sure he would vote for Irish unity. If and when Scotland goes, he said he'd support unity 100 per cent, although he did say it's difficult to be too vocal about it for obvious reasons. I'd imagine many "neutrals" and "soft" unionists feel the same sense of alienation.

Cultural nationalists or Catholics who might have been economic unionists or content with 'status quo' are traumatised and livid. This article relates to an example of the latter who refers to herself as part of the "Rory McIlroy generation": http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/nat...ivid-1-7449338

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by News Letter

A professional Catholic woman in her 30s who wants to remain anonymous tells the News Letter of her alarm at the vote in favour of Brexit:

I suspect there’s about to be quite an awakening among young people of a nationalists background who would never have voted for a united Ireland before!

It is mind boggling – they have fired to starting gun on something that would otherwise never have happened.

Nationalists were content and now they are livid.

Scotland will go first and Northern Ireland will attempt to follow and there will be a new war here no matter what way the vote goes.

Maybe I’m in a dramatic mood this morning, but this will be disastrous!

One of your journalists referred to the Rory McIlroy generation recently – I thought it was the perfect way to describe content folk and sum up how I feel: Catholic, Irish passport holder but also proud UK citizen, not remotely bothered about a border and would vote against a united Ireland.

I can’t think of anything worse than a united Ireland, except perhaps leaving the EU and the break up of the Union.

---

I'm a bit shell-shocked by it all myself and think it'll bring hardship and difficulty in the short-term, but it also presents a real incentive and opportunity to build a progressive, inclusive united Ireland for all. I sense that people in the south would be much more interested in the idea of unity if they knew if wouldn't be hassle or cause significant tension with unionists.