Slovakia V Republic of Ireland - Tuesday, 12th October 2010 - Euro 2012 Qualifier

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11/10/2010, 1:12 PM
AlaskaFox

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noelys Guitar

Trap posted team sheet with Westwood in/Given out. The old Glasgow Kiss came into play. Shay back in goal.

Hart could get away with it, but not Keiren.
11/10/2010, 1:13 PM
Emmet7

Keith Andrews is a big loss in the center of midfield, and really matured as an international in the World Cup qualifiers.

It's unfortunate for Green to be thrown in at the deep end, and Andrews and Whelan struggled in their first games too.

We don't have the players to play the ball around in midfield or even defence. There were a few times when we tried to play it across the back against Russia and were dispossessed and could have conceded goals. Technically we were a lot inferior to Russia. There's probably no alternative to the long ball game since we don't have technically gifted players in defence or midfield to work the ball out slowly.
11/10/2010, 1:18 PM
paul_oshea

Quote:

Originally Posted by SwanVsDalton

Indeed, but we do press when the midfielders approach our banks of four, and when we do were usually fairly effective at it (in particular Andrews). Green didn't help matters on Friday by being caught continually on the turn after charging ten yards off the half-way line. In fairness his timing was better in the first half, I seem to recall it being mostly the second when he was caught adrift too far forward.

Only in Paris did we really look like a decent passing side. Italian teams always give opposition time on the ball, but generally it's in their own half and so it proved against us as Dunne et al had plenty of time to play incisive long balls on to Doyle's head. It's not exactly pass and move stuff. But regardless is it really about being given time or how poor the opposition are....?

Oh. Well in that case it's a hopelessly negative view that ignores the fact Ireland took the game to two sides far superior in quality and gained credible results. These results wern't some lucky gift, we deserved them due to very good performances. Don't you at least partly accept if the opposition played poorly on the night we deserve credit for limiting them?

Or, I guess, how Russia have been over the last year? Guess we should've beat them off the park so since their form hasn't exactly been world class...

I'm not saying we were brilliant or France and Italy were top of their game or even that we shouldn't have beat them - but credit where credit is due. It's is unduly negative, and lazy, to say Ireland are poor when we get beat, but are lucky/the opposition are rubbish when we do well.

I am saying, that italy and france were shown up to be poor teams at the world cup. Had they performed like russia did against us on friday it wouldn't matter what results had gone before, that would still have been a good performance, but they didn't. Whatever went before for Russia, didn't matter the last day because they proved they can play football brilliantly at least on occasion, i dont think the italians or french did against us, or in the world cup. I do also think we made russia look better than they are. I would agree if Germany, brazil, argentina played poorly on the night some of it must be down to how we (would have) made them look poor.

And im not being lazy, i said and ill say it again, perhaps i wrote too close to the game that people didnt see my posts due to travelling whatever else on the day but people were being blindly optimistic and others were being scapegoated as mad men for questioning traps tactic and how he set us out. I worried that we might not have a plan b and if we ever had an off day due to how deep we play we could get a rollicking, and it happened. It has nothing to do with being lazy and saying we are poor, we have proved we are decent, again another word i used previouslly, but that these 2 games would show how far trap has really brought us? So far i think its 1 step back. If we beat slovakia 2 - 0 away from home, will I be wrong? I certainly wont be right, but I will still believe that changes are required.
11/10/2010, 1:32 PM
Stuttgart88

I don't know who specifically I was referring to, just generically towards anyone who belittles our good showing against France and Italy because of their own poor showings in the WC. They were good performances regardless.
11/10/2010, 1:33 PM
TrapAPony

Quote:

Originally Posted by ifk101

Green hasn't shown in his three competitive internationals that he is good enough to play international football. Criticism of Green is qualified by his performances against Armenia and Andorra. He needed a "big" performance against Russia to prove his critcs wrong. That performance wasn't forthcoming. Running after Arshavin looking for his jersey at the end is despicable. He's a tourist.

Well said. However, Trap is probably going to persist with him though rather than admit that he is wrong to select him.
11/10/2010, 1:33 PM
paul_oshea

ya so was the 3 -1 win against andorra.

I wasn't belittling but it was not as good as people think, again we get exaggerate at both ends of the scale, with tunnel vision.
11/10/2010, 1:33 PM
shakermaker1982

Anybody see the Whelan interview on SSN today?
11/10/2010, 1:37 PM
paul_oshea

No Go on, i might go down stairs they have SSN on, is it main headlines interview?
11/10/2010, 1:41 PM
SwanVsDalton

Quote:

Originally Posted by paul_oshea

Whatever went before for Russia, didn't matter the last day because they proved they can play football brilliantly at least on occasion, i dont think the italians or french did against us, or in the world cup.

I know Italy and France were not brilliant against us, but are you really saying they arn't capable of good performances at least 'on occasion' like Russia?

Quote:

Originally Posted by paul_oshea

I do also think we made russia look better than they are. I would agree if Germany, brazil, argentina played poorly on the night some of it must be down to how we (would have) made them look poor.

Didn't we make Italy and France look more ordinary than they are? Italy and France, poor form or no, are hardly a bunch of cloggers. They had more than enough quality to turn us other, again we deserve at least some credit that this didn't happen.

Quote:

Originally Posted by paul_oshea

And im not being lazy, i said and ill say it again, perhaps i wrote too close to the game that people didnt see my posts due to travelling whatever else on the day but people were being blindly optimistic and others were being scapegoated as mad men for questioning traps tactic

I'm seen this from a couple of poster's and it's really irritating - there's a fairly high level of debate around here (generally ;)) and I rarely read anyone being 'blindly optimistic' or others 'being scapegoated as mad men' for having the temerity to question Trap. In fact the opposite - rampant negativity and naysayery about the Ireland team and Trap's tactics - occurs far more.

Quote:

Originally Posted by paul_oshea

I worried that we might not have a plan b and if we ever had an off day due to how deep we play we could get a rollicking, and it happened. It has nothing to do with being lazy and saying we are poor, we have proved we are decent, again another word i used previouslly, but that these 2 games would show how far trap has really brought us? So far i think its 1 step back. If we beat slovakia 2 - 0 away from home, will I be wrong? I certainly wont be right, but I will still believe that changes are required.

Loads of poster's would agree with a lot of this, myself included. Certainly even if we win tomorrow night there will plenty for manager and players to do. Long term I'm actually hoping the Russia game is something of a wake up call regarding personnel and tactics. Perfect timing as it's not come too late for us to do something about it.
11/10/2010, 1:45 PM
shakermaker1982

Russia are the best international side he has faced.

The interviewer asks him whether they'll be looking to play a bit more football over in Slovakia and Whelan states it's up to the manager. The guy tries to get him to say he'd prefer playing football (instead of hoofball) but to be fair to Whelan he tries to be as diplomatic as possible. If he doesn't do what the manager says then he could be replaced.....
11/10/2010, 1:55 PM
Stuttgart88

I think Trap is far more comfortable with the concept of us playing without the ball than most of us here would want, but I'm still not convinced he wants us to play a hoofball game. OK, so Shay was instructed to go long in the last 10 minutes, but why not? It was actually causing them trouble.

One of the very first things Trap had us doing was to get the CBs to carry the ball further forward than we did under Stan. I'm tending to side with Dunne's version of events which is that the players lacked the courage to trust their ability and do things the right way.

Slovakia away is certainly one of the most interesting games we've had in ages. Do we change, and if so, how? Do we just try and play better? Does Trap have the nous to do what's required? Are we just a third rate football country (at best - because I'd actually fear playing Macedonia away more than Slovakia right now)?
11/10/2010, 2:05 PM
paul_oshea

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

I think Trap is far more comfortable with the concept of us playing without the ball than most of us here would want, but I'm still not convinced he wants us to play a hoofball game. OK, so Shay was instructed to go long in the last 10 minutes, but why not? It was actually causing them trouble.

One of the very first things Trap had us doing was to get the CBs to carry the ball further forward than we did under Stan. I'm tending to side with Dunne's version of events which is that the players lacked the courage to trust their ability and do things the right way.

Slovakia away is certainly one of the most interesting games we've had in ages. Do we change, and if so, how? Do we just try and play better? Does Trap have the nous to do what's required? Are we just a third rate football country (at best - because I'd actually fear playing Macedonia away more than Slovakia right now)?

stutts seriously it was for about 17 mins, from around 87 mins till the end, every single ball was hoofball, that is more than enough time to vary it.
11/10/2010, 2:05 PM
Condex

Quote:

Originally Posted by geysir

"Despicable", get over yourself.

Green's attitude throughout is to give 100% and he gives 100%.
His contribution is not a lot compared to what we need, but it's still 100%.

If it was only about 100% we'd all be playing, Green eas crap I'd do better myself..
11/10/2010, 2:09 PM
shakermaker1982

It is interesting how Dunne and Whelan do not come to the same conclusions on what is triggering this kick and rush type football.

If Dunne is right i.e. it's the defenders who panic and take the easy option by lumping it long then surely the Trap should and would be going mental at them if it's not what he wants? It happens too often to be solely down to the players in my view. Don't get me wrong there is nothing wrong with launching it now and again, but teams study videos and every man and his dog knew we'd hit it long to Doyle. Too predictable.

The funny thing about Doyle not being fit for tomorrow is that Slovakia haven't got a clue about what kind of approach we'll take tomorrow!!! I like it.
11/10/2010, 2:14 PM
paul_oshea

Quote:

Originally Posted by shakermaker1982

It is interesting how Dunne and Whelan do not come to the same conclusions on what is triggering this kick and rush type football.

If Dunne is right i.e. it's the defenders who panic and take the easy option by lumping it long then surely the Trap should and would be going mental at them if it's not what he wants? It happens too often to be solely down to the players in my view. Don't get me wrong there is nothing wrong with launching it now and again, but teams study videos and every man and his dog knew we'd hit it long to Doyle. Too predictable.

The funny thing about Doyle not being fit for tomorrow is that Slovakia haven't got a clue about what kind of approach we'll take tomorrow!!! I like it.

Ya the even funnier thing is neither does Trap!!!
11/10/2010, 2:15 PM
Stuttgart88

Quote:

Originally Posted by paul_oshea

stutts seriously it was for about 17 mins, from around 87 mins till the end, every single ball was hoofball, that is more than enough time to vary it.

My point was abit more nuanced than that! It was clear that the instruction late in the game was to hoof it, but it wasn't clear if hoofing it earlier in the game was an instruction or just they way it panned out. I thought that much of our play was directed wide in the early parts.

Did anyone else notice the moment in the first half when KK released McGeady along the wing, he passed Trap on the touchline and actually looked at him for permission to go further forward?
11/10/2010, 2:22 PM
Closed Account 2

Anyone know a pub in central / north / west London that will be showing it? Ideally one that won't be showing the England game (which is on at the same time).
11/10/2010, 2:23 PM
paul_oshea

No Id say kilbane just got a bit confused and was asking trap where was he, was he in the middle of the park or the left full slot or where was he at all at all.

Well, i was trying, as bad as my eyesight would let me see, trap wasn't gesticulating or shouting that much from the sideline in this period. Which to me suggests he was happy with the hoofball approach.....otherwise surely he would have been advising differently on the sideline?!

I know your point was but i cant be seen to be browsing continually on foot.ie even if i do so i have to nip in and out and raise certain things first, and i think 17/18 mins is quite a significant time compared to the last 10 etc....
11/10/2010, 2:24 PM
paul_oshea

Quote:

Originally Posted by cfdh_edmundo

Anyone know a pub in central / north / west London that will be showing it? Ideally one that won't be showing the England game (which is on at the same time).

cfdh, im planning on mornington crescent nice irish pub in mornington crescent but he has a few tellies so he might show the england game too.
11/10/2010, 2:40 PM
Closed Account 2

is that the sheephaven ?

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