General promotion/media discussion (split from the attendances thread)

A Shamrock Rovers fanatic friend of mine told me that we are more English than the English themselves, and I can't help but agree when the Irish media not alone apes the motherland, but also follows it's lead in so many ways. It's bad enough that our civil service is a poor imitation of the British one, and the way we deal with our policy changes ditto (from immigration to financial), we as a nation are never going to be mature enough to just get on with being independent and having pride in what's our own, it's the mindset of a heavily colonised and completely destroyed society that exists today, completely dependent and beholden on those above us, whether they be British or Irish.

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Originally Posted by Spudulika

A Shamrock Rovers fanatic friend of mine told me that we are more English than the English themselves, and I can't help but agree when the Irish media not alone apes the motherland, but also follows it's lead in so many ways. It's bad enough that our civil service is a poor imitation of the British one, and the way we deal with our policy changes ditto (from immigration to financial), we as a nation are never going to be mature enough to just get on with being independent and having pride in what's our own, it's the mindset of a heavily colonised and completely destroyed society that exists today, completely dependent and beholden on those above us, whether they be British or Irish.

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Being so close geographically to Britain and using the same language, we are always going to be in their proverbial tracter beam to be honest. It's more about relative size and language than colonialism - it's the same with other obvious places like Austria-Germany, Canada-US, Luxembourg-France, New Zeland-Australia etc, none of which had a colonial relationship (Austria 'agreed' to join Germany briefly in the last century).

Legally and in policy terms Ireland is slowly but surely diverging from Britain. We have an elected head of state, different tax rates, a different voting system, and Ireland has lead the way for other countries recently on policy issues like plastic bags tax and smoking ban. Also - Ireland moved very quickly on tackling its financial mess once it all came out of the wash - much faster than anywhere else (and rightly so).

Football and media are two big areas where Ireland does lean far too heavily upon Britain though, to the point of disgrace when it comes to football. But to say that Irel;and is just a nation of post-colonial lackeys who can't think for themselves is just too simplistic. Geography and language makes it inevitable, colonial relationship are not (again ref Canada-Us and NZ-Australia).

The league needs to look after itself first and get it's structures right. I don't think that is being done.

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Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

Being so close geographically to Britain and using the same language, we are always going to be in their proverbial tracter beam to be honest. It's more about relative size and language than colonialism - it's the same with other obvious places like Austria-Germany, Canada-US, Luxembourg-France, New Zeland-Australia etc, none of which had a colonial relationship (Austria 'agreed' to join Germany briefly in the last century).

Legally and in policy terms Ireland is slowly but surely diverging from Britain. We have an elected head of state, different tax rates, a different voting system, and Ireland has lead the way for other countries recently on policy issues like plastic bags tax and smoking ban. Also - Ireland moved very quickly on tackling its financial mess once it all came out of the wash - much faster than anywhere else (and rightly so).

Football and media are two big areas where Ireland does lean far too heavily upon Britain though, to the point of disgrace when it comes to football. But to say that Irel;and is just a nation of post-colonial lackeys who can't think for themselves is just too simplistic. Geography and language makes it inevitable, colonial relationship are not (again ref Canada-Us and NZ-Australia).

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What???
They may have tackled it quickly but hardly properly Steve. 20 odd billion being pumped into Anglo is hardly tackling the problem. It would cost around 4 million to build another cystic fibrosis unit. Enough said.
Sorry for going off topic.

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Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

Being so close geographically to Britain and using the same language, we are always going to be in their proverbial tracter beam to be honest. It's more about relative size and language than colonialism - it's the same with other obvious places like Austria-Germany, Canada-US, Luxembourg-France, New Zeland-Australia etc, none of which had a colonial relationship (Austria 'agreed' to join Germany briefly in the last century).

Legally and in policy terms Ireland is slowly but surely diverging from Britain. We have an elected head of state, different tax rates, a different voting system, and Ireland has lead the way for other countries recently on policy issues like plastic bags tax and smoking ban. Also - Ireland moved very quickly on tackling its financial mess once it all came out of the wash - much faster than anywhere else (and rightly so).

Football and media are two big areas where Ireland does lean far too heavily upon Britain though, to the point of disgrace when it comes to football. But to say that Irel;and is just a nation of post-colonial lackeys who can't think for themselves is just too simplistic. Geography and language makes it inevitable, colonial relationship are not (again ref Canada-Us and NZ-Australia).

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Point taken, I was being too simplistic there and really drawing on the dependence we have on our neighbours for guidance. Of course we'll always be overshadowed by events there (football I should say clearly) and the difficulty will be creating a viable product to be marketed in Ireland. However it won't happen with the clowns at the helm (I'd like to solely blame the FAI but we know up and down the country clubs and football people are just as guilty). There still is a colonial hangover and I feel that the greatest problem is that we were a very different type of colony - not just were our raw materials taken and finished products sold back to us, not to mention someone elses laws rubbing out our own, we were systematically displaced, disenfranchised and downtrodden, which means we're kind of messed up :-)

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It's more about relative size and language than colonialism - it's the same with other obvious places like Austria-Germany, Canada-US

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Canada is a lot bigger than the US, and has never been colonised by them, a large portion of the population doesnt even share a language with them

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Originally Posted by dong

What???
They may have tackled it quickly but hardly properly Steve. 20 odd billion being pumped into Anglo is hardly tackling the problem. It would cost around 4 million to build another cystic fibrosis unit. Enough said.
Sorry for going off topic.

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Enough said indeed, though interested readers can find more information in dong's paper:
I. M. Dong, "Cystic Fibrosis Units as Drivers of Economic Recovery: Enough Said", Quarterly Journal of Economics, 135(3), Aug 2010.

This thread is going way off topic on how the league can develop! Lets get every county represented at some level in the LoI and sort out the youth structures.

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Originally Posted by dong

What???
They may have tackled it quickly but hardly properly Steve. 20 odd billion being pumped into Anglo is hardly tackling the problem. It would cost around 4 million to build another cystic fibrosis unit. Enough said.
Sorry for going off topic.

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I wasn't passing judgement on what the Irish government did - just saying that they acted quicker than pretty much anywhere else in tackling their economic problems. Things would be even worse if they hadn't.

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Originally Posted by punkrocket

Canada is a lot bigger than the US, and has never been colonised by them, a large portion of the population doesnt even share a language with them

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The physical size of Canada's landmass is irrelvant, and I stated that it hadn't been colonised by the US. Most of Canada's landmass is empty, and they have a population of only one-tenth of that of the US. Plus only 20% of Canadians use French in their everyday lives, whilst 80% of all Canuks live within 100miles of the US border. Unsurprising therefore that their culture is heavily influenced by their much more populous neighbour.

Spend a bit of time in Canadia and you'll see how heavily influenced it is by the US.

Though I digress.... :D

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Originally Posted by Model Club

Local football in Scotland is the template that we should hope to achieve.ie That people support LOI teams first and EPL second but we are a long way from that goal!

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Bizarrely the Scots don't really support English teams full-stop. It's either their local side or, increasingly, one or other of the Old Firm.

It's hard to know how we got ourselves into such a crazy situation where we do the opposite.

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Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

As an aside - were ordinary adult tickets really €40-50 for tonight's game....?

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€50 minimum i think.

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Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

Bizarrely the Scots don't really support English teams full-stop. It's either their local side or, increasingly, one or other of the Old Firm.

It's hard to know how we got ourselves into such a crazy situation where we do the opposite.

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There aren't enough local derbies really and nor are there enough counties represented to get interest going in the game around the country.

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Originally Posted by legendz

There aren't enough local derbies really and nor are there enough counties represented to get interest going in the game around the country.

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I could name a few derbies if you feel that's the critical factor missing:

Cork v Waterford
Finn Harps v Derry
Sligo Rovers v Finn Harps
Sligo Rovers v Galway (possibly)
Bohs v Shamrock rovers
Shamrock Rovers v St. Pats
St. Pats v Bohs
Fingal v Bohs
Fingal v St Pats
Mervue v Salthill

I could have left some out. If anything there's too many. Don't see how the Fingal ones are derbies myself but they are mostly referred to as "Dublin Derbies" on MNS and in the media.
Also, I don't think having teams from every county is going to be an answer to the league's "woes".

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Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

Bizarrely the Scots don't really support English teams full-stop. It's either their local side or, increasingly, one or other of the Old Firm.

It's hard to know how we got ourselves into such a crazy situation where we do the opposite.

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I know-It was more a case of wishful-hoping tinged with a realisation that the EPL is here to stay and my vision is the best we can hope for but will probably never happen:(

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Originally Posted by dong

I could name a few derbies if you feel that's the critical factor missing:

Cork v Waterford
Finn Harps v Derry
Sligo Rovers v Finn Harps
Sligo Rovers v Galway (possibly)
Bohs v Shamrock rovers
Shamrock Rovers v St. Pats
St. Pats v Bohs
Fingal v Bohs
Fingal v St Pats
Mervue v Salthill

I could have left some out. If anything there's too many. Don't see how the Fingal ones are derbies myself but they are mostly referred to as "Dublin Derbies" on MNS and in the media.
Also, I don't think having teams from every county is going to be an answer to the league's "woes".

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Good derbies they are too but I think there should be more, though obviously there'd have to be more clubs
Maybe not the answer to the league woes but the only way to promote the league more nationwide is to have more regions represented. Hopefully with the A Championship it will head that way.

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The physical size of Canada's landmass is irrelvant, and I stated that it hadn't been colonised by the US. Most of Canada's landmass is empty, and they have a population of only one-tenth of that of the US. Plus only 20% of Canadians use French in their everyday lives, whilst 80% of all Canuks live within 100miles of the US border. Unsurprising therefore that their culture is heavily influenced by their much more populous neighbour.

Spend a bit of time in Canadia and you'll see how heavily influenced it is by the US.

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It's still bigger.

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Originally Posted by punkrocket

It's still bigger.

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And your point is.....?

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Originally Posted by Model Club

I know-It was more a case of wishful-hoping tinged with a realisation that the EPL is here to stay and my vision is the best we can hope for but will probably never happen:(

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My prediction, the EPL will crash and burn in the next few years. Players wages are unsustainable, many of the clubs are carrying serious debt and sugar daddys aren't going to stay for ever while their clubs are heomoraging cash. In fairness to Shams, their attendances prove that there is a potential appetite for domestic football in Ireland.

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Originally Posted by bingoballs

My prediction, the EPL will crash and burn in the next few years. Players wages are unsustainable, many of the clubs are carrying serious debt and sugar daddys aren't going to stay for ever while their clubs are heomoraging cash. In fairness to Shams, their attendances prove that there is a potential appetite for domestic football in Ireland.

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There is a potential appetite too but league structures need to be right first. Not to go on but U16/Youth level up is the way to work on it.

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Originally Posted by legendz

There is a potential appetite too but league structures need to be right first. Not to go on but U16/Youth level up is the way to work on it.

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Totally agree Legendz, the success of the GAA is their connection to the grassroot levels of their community. If clubs were to be told that they would be given 5 years to have a percentage of home grown players in their first team it would enforce them to start thinking about developing and implomenting decent youth structures. It would also generate a greater sence of connection between the team and the community. The only problem is financing it.