Er, No!Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsujin1979
Just that I would like to see more of a spectacle.
And draws are of limited use re.qualification.
Nothing ventured, nothing gained.
And all that.
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Er, No!Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsujin1979
Just that I would like to see more of a spectacle.
And draws are of limited use re.qualification.
Nothing ventured, nothing gained.
And all that.
Seeing 3 points is a spectacle :)
There is only one result and that is to qualify out of the group for the finals.
The qualification games are always a mixed bag.
By our standards of perfection, we played less than the perfect game in Armenia. The perfect away game against a team like Armenia is score 2, kill the game and don't let them back in, like we did in Estonia under Mick.
...without Roy Keane! I think we shipped a couple of chances in Estonia, but you're right, Estonia away was one of the least heart-attack inducing away games of the last decade.
We were a lot better in Tallinn than on Friday night....
And the point is we are drawing games than we could win.
A win & loss is usually better than 2 draws!
I thought we won on Friday.
Not necessarily. Losing games hits momentum and confidence, going unbeaten provides self-belief - and the performances tend to follow. We would never have put in that performance in Paris if we had of, say, lost to Bulgaria and Italy instead of drawing against them.
I think that the last campaign highlighted that the tactics worked, just that the execution was sloppy - missed chances and silly defending. Even the disappointing home draw with Bulgaria should have resulted in a win. McGeady (in particular) and Doyle missing great late chances, at 1-1.
There were definitely more points left on the table than were fortunately gained. It wasn't the tactics that dropped those points in my opinion, it was the execution.
On Trap's straightjacket, he wants to inject discipline in the team and the straightjacket is his method. He has to be consistent. Each game is approached the same way, even the friendlies. If he does not approach Andorra with this seriousness of preparation as the away game, how can one expect the team to? He applies the straightjacket out of necessity. Amongst many things before Trap, we did not have the discipline in our game to achieve consistency with performance and results.
There were signs that at least we looked less panicky after scoring against Armenia.
Hence the need for more creativity and at least an element of risk, in certain games. A win and a loss v.Bulgaria would have been better, similarly Montenegro. And possibly even Italy, though there I'd have taken two draws for the kudos at the time....Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
But if we had of lost to Bulgaria or Montenegro, would we have achieved those two Italian draws? I'm not convinced - I think losing games only leads to losing more games and dropping more points.
I see Russia/Slovakia is at 4 tomorrow, doesnt appear to be Setanta or Eurosport.
Next up - Tuesday 7th September 2010
Russia v Slovakia
Macedonia v Armenia
Ireland v Andorra
Agreed, any point gained against more difficult opposition gives confidence against higher ranked oppositionQuote:
Originally Posted by SwanVsDalton
I dont think losing games ever helps. There was a major confidence rush for the team last campaign in that we were undefeated the whole way through. The last time that happened was when, Euro 92 qualifiers?
My point is that the tactics worked but the execution was flawed. If we're liable to defensive errors and not being ruthless in fron of goal, playing more creatively may not be the answer.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
Our disciplined approach is just the foundation. There's nothing to say Trap doesn't also want some icing at the top, maybe it's just that haven't got it.
Still, one of Robbie's chances, a justified penalty being awarded, one of Whelan's or St. Ledger's chance added to Fahey's goal and we'd be talking about this game in the same way as we viewed Estonia in 2001. If we were more clinical it could have been a romp.
For such a cautious team we certainly create, albeit from unorthodox passages of play.
Georgia away - scored twice
Monty away - created some good chances and had a penno appeal turned down
Cyprus - despite the hairy finish we could have scored 3
Georgia home - stupid defending, created chances, scored twice
Bulgaria home - awful performance yet still created enough to win
Bulgaria away - started well & scored. Dumb error and after that we played for a draw which we got comfortably enough
Italy away - scored, drew saves from Buffon and should have snatched it in injury time
Cyprus - scored twice and - like Armenia - got a goal when we needed one, a good sign
Italy home - didn't play great, scored twice
Monty home - dead rubber, awful game
France twice - created enough chances to win (and conceded enough to lose). Conceded a deflection and an illegal goal.
Algeria - scored 3
Paraguay - scored 2
Argentina - outclassed
Armenia - created 3 or 4 great chances, took one
I think it's a case of fine tuning and stepping it up a level, rather than fundamental change that's required. If we play the same way but get more ruthless at each end everyone will be happy, even the purists.
2002...Quote:
Originally Posted by rebelmusic
And a point gained against the more difficult opposition, means they drop 2 points, increasing their pressure.Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsujin1979
I know it sounds dumb but depriving your opponents of points counts too.
I suppose AB's point is that winning & losing against your rivals is better than drawing twice. You can't argue with the simple maths that 1.5 points per game is better than 1 point per game, but it's not that simple. Abandon our disclipline in favour of entertaining and we might be getting zero points per game.
I've always disagreeed with the win at home, draw away mantra. Home wins aren't a given these days, so away wins will make the difference. So far there's been no evidence that Trap has played for away draws, except maybe Bulgaria away after we had squandered our lead.
Either way, the 3 points from Friday are in the bag. Let's see if Russia and Slovakia can match it. So far we've left no points on the table that we should have collected. Let's take it game by game.
Brady stated on RTE on Friday that at no point did Trapattoni ever tell the players to hang back and defendQuote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
Italy had the bulk of the fortune last time around in the away games, grabbing the winner in Montenegro was a bummer, that bizzarre game against Georgia, did they not have a slice of luck against Cyprus? and then against us.