Budget: April 2009

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by pete

The minimum wage should have been cut as it is ridiculously high compared to other EU countries. High minimum wage level feeds into the cost of everything in this country. Any one above the new minimum wage would then pay income tax.

---

Can't cut minimum wage. If employee is part-time on say, a 3-day week, he needs it to be at current levels.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bennocelt

IMHO the social welfare is way to much - as I said before compared to what people get in the UK (about 60 pounds or so) and in other countries its a joke.

---

I think that's just the basic dole there, there would be additions. But you are not comparing like with like. The cost of living is much cheaper (hence the exodus to Newry and Enniskillen for the shopping), and the NHS/ Prescription charges are much lower. The comparison with a country that's had the guts of 3 decades of Governments attacking social welfare isn't the example I'm comfortable to use.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bennocelt

The government should be trying to encourage people to work and should cut the social welfare and a good few of the other benefits

---

What jobs? The only encouragement would be towards re-training and education. The training is being hit by budget cuts and recruitment embargos and they're just about to introduce fees for 3rd level.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by pete

The minimum wage should have been cut as it is ridiculously high compared to other EU countries. High minimum wage level feeds into the cost of everything in this country. Any one above the new minimum wage would then pay income tax.

---

It was inflation that drove up the minimum wage, not the other way around. Funny how it's people who have no prospect of ever having to survive on the minimum wage that are always the ones that want it cut...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Block G Raptor

I'm single but have 2 children. I have to give my ex(who works as does her husband) 60 euro a week in maintanance for my daughter but am not entitled to claim social welfare for her nor do I get children's allowance so thats 60 out of my Dole gone to someone who is in a 2 job household. when I was working I was only too happy to pay my way but now that I'm unemployed i'm still expected to keep up the payments how is this fair

---

your maintenance is another issue and nothing got to do with the social, and no its not fair at all

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mypost

You read, hear, and see the news I take it. If so, you will hear of every day where factories, shops and restaurants closing down, along with several other businesses in all sectors. Then there's businesses upping sticks and going to Eastern Europe and India. It's at a rate of 6k a week. If the government can't find work for them, (and it can't), they're entitled to claim social welfare.

There's no bigger leveller than the dole. Whether you're a 20-year old apprentice, or a 55-year old qualified physician, whether you're a single man or have 5 kids, you're entitled to the same €200 payment as everyone else. And try to support yourself on that amount. €200 doesn't get you very far on the dole if you have commitments, you need other benefits to merely survive. And you have to endure sitting for months on end having other companies doors shut in your face. There are thousands of applicants for every job going.

How many other Eurozone countries have the IMF bailed out yet?? None, and won't be in the foreseeable future. .
.

---

You obviously haven't read my posts - I am maintaining that the social welfare is far too high! It is costing the country far too much. Of course people are entitled to it if they dont have a job.
20 billion social welfare budget!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !:mad:
The EU or the IMF will have to bail is out - thats a given - watch this space
and there has already been grumblings from the Germans about our social welfare system (and about the expenses our politicians ratch up) - considering it will be them that will be footing the bill (as always)

Again its all back to the greed of this country - we want the government to hold our hands and wipe our............. and then we criticize them all the time!!!
I don't expect anything from this government and hence am never disappointed!

Please can you answer me this question - how would one spend more than 200 every week
I work and my wife works and we wouldn't spend that nearly between us!

[QUOTE=bennocelt;1140426]
Please can you answer me this question - how would one spend more than 200 every week


Living

[QUOTE=First;1140429]

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bennocelt

Please can you answer me this question - how would one spend more than 200 every week


Living

---

well yeah:)
but you know all this poverty and stuff

and LOI tickets are "only" 15 quid but if your on the social you get in for free!!!:)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bennocelt

Please can you answer me this question - how would one spend more than 200 every week
I work and my wife works and we wouldn't spend that nearly between us!

---

Well by the time you have got 2 slabs of carling paid for your smack and fags done a few bets there is very little left out of 200 euro.

I actually agree with you i think the jobseekers allowance ( stamps ) is ok left at 204 as your after paying your PRSI for long enough for just that reason. But for the basic Dole to be 200 euro is a bit high. If you have no mortage or rent worth talking about then 200 is loads.

The dole is a safety net so you can pay for food and bills if you want to go for a drink or smoke they are luxuries so you need to get a job.

[QUOTE=bennocelt;1140444

and LOI tickets are "only" 15 quid but if your on the social you get in for free!!!:)[/QUOTE]


If only the standard was anyway good , then this would be incentive enough to quit my job. :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bennocelt

and LOI tickets are "only" 15 quid but if your on the social you get in for free!!!:)

---

Only a tenner in Athlone ;)
Combat The Recession ... Support Athlone Town

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ash

Only a tenner in Athlone ;)
Combat The Recession ... Support Athlone Town

---

Comeback when its officially a depression:p

I can only assume those talking about €200 being loads mustn't be in the position of having a family, mortgage, car loan etc.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bennocelt

your maintenance is another issue and nothing got to do with the social, and no its not fair at all

---

The point I was making is that a single mother who's never worked is entitled to whatever extra's on the social for having kids plus childrens allowance, but because my daughter does not live with me I'm entitled to nothing but the basic plus I still have to hand over 60 out of that
so it is to do with the social welfare system. IMO the system favours single mothers not single fathers

Nobody yet has managed to demonstrate how €200 a week isn't enough without bringing in kids, rent etc. which all entitle you to separate additional benefits which SIGNIFICANTLY increase what you get from the state.

Macy's point about commitments like loans which can't be changed in the short-term is a valid one, but income protection insurance is specifically aimed at this.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Macy

I can only assume those talking about €200 being loads mustn't be in the position of having a family, mortgage, car loan etc.

---

Think they are on about the long term unemployed getting the dole rather than someone who has just lost their job. Some one that has just lost there job that has a mortgage car loans family etc then no 200 euro isnt enough but its better than nothing.
But if some one that hasnt worked for 4 or 5 years goes and gets a car loan and mortage while all ready trying to support a family then that person is an idiot.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Block G Raptor

The point I was making is that a single mother who's never worked is entitled to whatever extra's on the social for having kids plus childrens allowance, but because my daughter does not live with me I'm entitled to nothing but the basic plus I still have to hand over 60 out of that
so it is to do with the social welfare system. IMO the system favours single mothers not single fathers

---

Thing is BGR if you were working and the child stays with you at least once in any 12 month period you are entitled to the same tax relief as a married man.
This is the equivalent of the mother receiving the single family supplement.

I agree with you on the allowances and such, you are not entitled to these if the main residence of the child is the mothers home. By definition a single parent allowance is because the child is being raised by one parent from a monetary aspect.

I myself am in the same position as you . I pay alot a month to my child's mother . Agreed when we split up without court involvement.This is off set by my tax relief . Though it is difficult when having a mortgage, running a car, paying my bills and insurances. Her mother is entitled to Single family allowance , chid welfare allowance , social housing and is allowed to work for 20 hours a week without any of her allowances being affected.

Thankfully I have a good job but I do worry that if anything happens to it , where I'll stand . You are correct the system is more favoured to the mother in these situations but it does reward and recognise those fathers that are are working and paying towards their childs upkeep. It is all relative to your income. I recently heard of a bloke who brought a girl to court because he beleived he was paying too much child maintainace for his daughter, €30 a week , the judged laughed at him and ordered him to pay €50 a week.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Macy

I can only assume those talking about €200 being loads mustn't be in the position of having a family, mortgage, car loan etc.

---

sorry but having a mortgage shouldn't come into it at all - thats not the responsibility of the state

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Macy

They weren't my figures, they were CSO figures, but I'm sure you know best. :rolleyes:

I wouldn't say food prices have gone up, however, I see little evidence they have gone down. We have been shopping around for several years, long before the Lidl and Aldi bargain bandwagon was rolling. The family shop for our family hasn't come down. Tesco and Dunnes are only price matching Lidl and Aldi, which is probably what accounts for the small fall with the CSO, so if you were already shopping there you wouldn't see much difference.

---

http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0409/inflation.html
funny that:)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bennocelt

sorry but having a mortgage shouldn't come into it at all - thats not the responsibility of the state

---

It should, especially if the state is paying rent allowance (but makes gives no allowance for mortgage).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bennocelt

http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0409/inflation.html
funny that:)

---

Pity you didn't read the link to the CSO. Year on Year, Food and Non-alcoholic beverages down only 0.5% (same month on month), general goods and services up 9.1%, Beer and smokes up 5.9%, Education up 5.5%, Health up 4.7%. Most of the decrease is down to mortgage rates which doesn't effect everyone (either no mortgage or on a fixed rate), and reductions in home heating oil (little use now as we come into summer).

If you look deeper at some of the year on year decreases, like clothing & shoes and transport, they're actually starting to go back up again in the month on month figures.

I aint going back to look, but I think I said looking at the headline rate can be misleading, didn't I?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Macy

It should, especially if the state is paying rent allowance (but makes gives no allowance for mortgage).


Pity you didn't read the link to the CSO. Year on Year, Food and Non-alcoholic beverages down only 0.5% (same month on month), general goods and services up 9.1%, Beer and smokes up 5.9%, Education up 5.5%, Health up 4.7%. Most of the decrease is down to mortgage rates which doesn't effect everyone (either no mortgage or on a fixed rate), and reductions in home heating oil (little use now as we come into summer).

If you look deeper at some of the year on year decreases, like clothing & shoes and transport, they're actually starting to go back up again in the month on month figures.

I aint going back to look, but I think I said looking at the headline rate can be misleading, didn't I?

---

:)
i suppose the government should help me with my credit card loan, and my student loan?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Macy

It should, especially if the state is paying rent allowance (but makes gives no allowance for mortgage).

---

It does if you are on the dole you can claim a mortgage payment too it helps pay the interest only part of your loan but its a help.

If your working you can claim TRS

The bottom line is that all other thing being equal (note to everyone trying to compare apples and oranges), you shouldn't be better off on social welfare than in fulltime employment.

Yet that's exactly what this budget will do. And that's wrong, morally financially and any other way you want to look at it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bennocelt

You obviously haven't read my posts - I am maintaining that the social welfare is far too high! It is costing the country far too much. Of course people are entitled to it if they dont have a job.
20 billion social welfare budget!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !:mad:
The EU or the IMF will have to bail is out - thats a given - watch this space
and there has already been grumblings from the Germans about our social welfare system (and about the expenses our politicians ratch up) - considering it will be them that will be footing the bill (as always)

---

The social welfare bill, is comprised of all levels of social welfare, not limited to JA/JB.

I can't see any bailouts from outsiders for at least 5 years. We have our EU membership, we have the Eurozone, so it's like standing in a bus shelter in a thunderstorm. There is a degree of protection for EU states in the current crisis, including Ireland.

I'd have no problem paying income levies, as I'd have a job. JA/JB is the lowest possible rung of the economic ladder though, and should be the very very last area to take a hit, instead of the first.