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that was Gibson's problem, he is a defensive midfielder, but was being brought on as an attacking player, behind the strikers. Far better playing where he is now, between defence and midfield, passing out from defence to the forward playersQuote:
Originally Posted by liamoo11
Nit-picking. I was just giving examples of games where stats don't tell the full story (yours or otherwise). The Blackpool one is still relevant to my point as they were losing 2-0 until he went off but counts in his unbeaten run.Quote:
Originally Posted by Irwin3
Wrong. I don't rate him on what I have seen and have felt his attitude could have been better at times.Quote:
Originally Posted by Irwin3
Guilty! That's not to say I haven't seen some attributes or glimpses of ability. Just disappointed more often than not. The best I have seen him play was when he came on in Bari, although strangely enough I never got to see the game back afterwards.Quote:
Originally Posted by Irwin3
Indeed. And believe it or not this pleases me. I'll be as happy as anybody if he turns into a quality player for Everton and Ireland. Being proven wrong or even silly on an internet forum isn't a phobia of mine.Quote:
Originally Posted by Irwin3
I could definitely see him being much more suited to this role. He just hasn't played well in the games I have seen Everton play in my opinion. I am more than open to the idea that I might have just seen the wrong games.Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsujin1979
Liverpool have only won 2 out of the 12 PL games that Steven Gerrard has started this season. See, I can be fun too!Quote:
Originally Posted by Irwin3
And there is the other side to that coin where he came on near the end of the game when the side was already losing. Such as his last PL defeat against Chelsea when he came on in the 86th minute and the team were already losing. Otherwise the unbeaten run would be extended further and Gibson would be lifting the Ballon d'Or and you would be crying into your cornflakes since you've been watching all the wrong games.
I'm not surprised by that stat at all. Steven Gerrard has been a pile of dog-poo for the last couple of years (occasionally still able to strike a ball, but hey so can David Beckham). If you think otherwise then good for you.
Irwin3, forgetting stats and everything else, who do you see Darron Gibson as on a level par with in World Football?
Do you see him as a top class midfielder?
Exactly, another stick to beat stats with. Thank you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Irwin3
No, I've only been watching the wrong games since he moved to Everton (seemingly). Saw the vast majority of his United no-shows.Quote:
Originally Posted by Irwin3
I don't really, just thought it was a 'fun stat'. To be fair, I'd say their record isn't too great without him either.Quote:
Originally Posted by Irwin3
He's the best CM in the Irish squad by a distance.Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
Stats are fun and you can take or leave them as I said earlier. However, the larger the sample the harder they are to simply ignore. You're "All stats must die" mantra is ridiculous and I would suggest you to seek medical assistance.Quote:
Originally Posted by DeLorean
It becomes clear that you haven't been to the wrong games, but you simply don't rate this player for whatever reasons. Others disagree.
You were clearly trying to show that "good player has bad stat run" otherwise, why would you bring it up?
Our positions are:
Me- Gibson is the best CM in the squad. Played some great stuff for Everton, blah blah blah
You- Never seen Gibson play well in 3 years, didn't/don't think he's a PL player, blah blah blah
I'd prefer if we don't keep going round in circles. My fingers are getting tired.
Thanks but thats not the question I asked.Quote:
Originally Posted by Irwin3
I don't have an all stats must die mantra and find some stats as interesting as the next guy. I just don't think the stats provided about Gibson mean anything, certainly not the ones dating back to his United days but I would take slightly more notice of the more recent Everton ones which involve a good few games I haven't seen.
You are completely 100% wrong in thinking that is why I put up the stat about Gerrard but I can see why you would think that. It was just a recent stat I had heard and wanted to be as 'fun' as you.
If its any consolation DeLorean, and I am the authority, I would side with you on this.
Unless of course the acturial side of things comes into play with pensions and insurances and then, well, No :D
I watch mostly english football and some european stuff so to try to answer your question would be absurd.Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
So what relevance does it have to this thread. Absolutely none. OK then.Quote:
Originally Posted by DeLorean
Your methods of deflection are truly laughable.
He is an average, or slightly above average, Premiership midfielder at best then.
I do feel though if he was given a good root up the hole he could be a serious midfielder.
The stats mean what they mean. They are a bunch of numbers describing events that have occurred. You can take from them what you like. Why do I feel as though I am repeating myself? Maybe you need to read through the thread?Quote:
Originally Posted by DeLorean
Apologies for that. I thought I was somewhere elseQuote:
Originally Posted by Irwin3
Ask a proper question if you want a proper answer. Accusing someone of deflection when they haven't is more of a sign of deflecting. No? If he's so average then why has he played in CL QF, SF and won LC's and played in FA Cup semi's and won a PL medal and played for the 7th best team in England.Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
If he's so average then what the hell does that make our other players?
Ok, you told me you dont watch much football, so you dont have much to compare to, ill take from that you dont really know what you are talking about then.
You're lack of comprehension is making you out to be a bit of an idiot and it is not worth bothering with you.Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
You: Where do you rank Gibson in world football.
Me: To answer that would be absurd since I mostly watch english and european football
YOU'RE CONCLUSION - That guy doesn't watch much football and doesn't know what he's talking about.
I'll leave you to you idiocy. Take care.
You're not half as fun as your stats
Well thats not lost on me anyway!! :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Irwin3
That is high praise indeed, because we only have Whelan as the other regular EPL midfielder and I'd regard him as an average EPL midfielder.Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
Therefore by your grade of appreciation, Gibson is the best available for our squad, seeing as Andrews is not good enough to be a regular and Fahey is stuck in the championship.
In other words, Gibson is the most talented Irish player at CM in the squad. It's unusual for you to give out such a portion of praise :)
I'm pretty sure Paul was summarising how much Irwin rates Gibson, going on the limited information Irwin provided (stats aside!). It wasn't necessarily Paul's own opinion on Gibson although it might be something similar.
Ha, if you read , i gave my opinion as the last sentence.Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
I was trying to surmise Irwin3's argument based on his stats and vague points, that playing at a club who are slighlty above average in terms of PL capabalities, then Gibson is deemed to be a slightly above average midfielder.
I believe he could be a very good midfielder, which can be best described -or I can best describe- by getting a "root up the backside", moyes and trap have put it differently mind you, that a lot more can come from him.
Stop trying to put words in my mouth. Go back to school and brush up on your comprehension skills.Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
Welcome back Irwin3, I thought you were gone.
I will defend myself against your blatant defamatory statements.Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
It was too good to be really true.Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
However it is quite astonishing that some people who regard themselves as 'knowledgeable' about all things that constitute a good player, still have a belief that a kick up the αrse is an effective coaching tactic to lift a footballer's game to a 'very good' level :)
I don't even remember what the argument is anymore...
All I'll say is that I (and a lot of other toffees) think Gibson has been very good for Everton since his move.
Edit: and I was not a fan of him at all before his move.
We will see next year skstu(possibly at the Euros) like all fans, they always look for the scapegoat and the next messiah, in jelavic they certainly got one in the january transfer window.
I saw 3 or 4 games that he played in, one where he got a wicked deflection and they won 1-0, I thought he was very solid, the other 1 that stuck out was the liverpool game where i thought he was poor to be honest, and the UTD game where he didnt stand out, but he didnt seem terrible either, but I'd expect more from him.
While I was fairly impressed with Gibson during the second half of the season, it must be kept in mind that this was his first extended run (or even run) of games for quite a while in his professional career (Antwerp or Wolves maybe). On the back of this, he's going to the Euro's, where there's a chance he'll get some game time (although this is very dependent on Whelan and Andrews getting injured or experiencing fatigue).
So, hopefully come August, we'll see more continuity again and an ability to assert his presence on games more effectively. Gibson's immediate indications were positive and Moyes stated in numerous interviews that he can improve and get some bite, I think this will occur next season. Hopefully then those who were so eager to brand him a championship footballer in this thread will finish off devouring their hats.
To add some napalm to the stats fire
from http://greenscene.me/2012/05/ireland...-stat-leaders/
Quote:
Passes per Game
46.4 James McCarthy (Wigan)
44.7 Stephen Ward (Wolves)
42.2 Darron Gibson (Everton)
40.8 Glenn Whelan (Stoke)
37.2 Wes Hoolahan (Norwich)
Quote:
Successful Passing Percentage
87.2 James McCarthy (Wigan)
86.5 Damien Duff (Fulham)
85.7 Samir Carruthers (Aston Villa)
85.7 Michael Harriman (QPR, played only one game)
84.1 Darron Gibson (Everton)
83.3 Anthony Forde (Wolves)
Quote:
Successful Long Passes per Game
7.2 Paddy Kenny (QPR)
6.4 Keiren Westwood (Sunderland)
5.8 Shay Given (Aston Villa)
4.9 Glenn Whelan (Stoke)
4.5 Darron Gibson (Everton)
Quote:
Interceptions per Game
2.6 Stephen Ireland (Aston Villa)
2.0 Richard Dunne (Aston Villa)
2.0 John OShea (Sunderland)
1.9 Ciaran Clark (Aston Villa)
1.9 Darron Gibson (Everton)
Whilst those stats are fairly reasonable there is no common denominator to gauge anything.
I think you see my point when you see samir carruthers above him in one of them.
I'm not sure if I ever referred to him as a Championship footballer, but I would admit to doubting his PL credentials based on his Man Utd and Ireland showings. I'm sure if he wasn't Irish, and the hope factor was put to one side, most people on here would have felt the same. Although I haven't been overly impressed in the few Everton games I have seen, it would be foolish of me to suggest that his career isn't going in the right direction. I hope this progress is dramatic and I get to "devour my hat" sooner rather than later :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Olι Olι
@DeLorean. Why aren't you trying to kill the latest stats?
Ok I admit it, it's not Darron I don't like...it's YOU!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Irwin3
I joke, I joke... I suppose Irwin3, it's because I'm not even sure what those stats are supposed to indicate. To me, all it shows it that generally players make roughly (oh-oh, have I said a bad word?) about 40 passes per game, successful passes are usually somewhere between 80-90%, goalkeepers kick ass at the long passes and about two interceptions per game seems to be the norm. I'm aware that these were only the top of the lists...the elite like Gibbo and Samir Carruthers if you will, but as you know I wouldn't be a dedicated enough statistician to dig any deeper.
That's really your problem then, isn't it? Why bother yourself with them if you don't even know what they indicate?Quote:
Originally Posted by DeLorean
Glenn Whelan thinks his 79.4% is grand.
Only played 19 minutes. Good prospect but let's see how he does after a run of games. Usually players are excluded from such lists unless they've played a certain amount of games. Good try at sarcasm though.
What's the common denominator of all the lists? Darron Gibson. Nooooooooooo! Lies I tell you. Lies. What do these stats even indicate? Down with stats!
Thanks I will add that to my stats sites, interesting how different stats can tell a different story.Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsujin1979
Michael Harriman? A successor to Paul Green at last! :DQuote:
Originally Posted by tetsujin1979
Am.... I wasn't bothered with them. So much so that you were curious as to why I wasn't bothered with them. Remember....Quote:
Originally Posted by Irwin3
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irwin3
Lack of comprehension strikes again. My question "@DeLorean. Why aren't you trying to kill the latest stats?" was more to do with the fact that you got yourself all worked up over my two stats that I posted (Gibson's Everton record and his unbeaten PL run) and then have paid no notice to the numerous stats posted subsequently by tricky and tets. Hmm. Why was that I wonder?Quote:
Originally Posted by DeLorean
And the "why bother" question is to do with you saying you don't understand what the stats indicate and then you proceed to try and belittle them. Why go to the effort?