From that list I think i'd prefer Sagnol or Hughton.
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From that list I think i'd prefer Sagnol or Hughton.
Out of interest, do the people who oppose Robbie Keane getting the job also oppose Bilic and Hudson?
Yes.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
It's difficult because there are shades of grey and where does one stop? For example would I object to a Newcastle United player turning out for us? Probably not.
But to go there and live alongside the subjugation of people due to their religion or nationality or gender, and allow the sorts of regimes who engage in that kind of behaviour to rent your reputation is a line in the sand for me.
I'd go for Hughton out of those five - he's Irish and has always had a bit of class about him. Too soon for O'Shea even if we hockey Portugal 0-0 in the next game.
On a non football related note, I can’t express strongly enough how much I detest corporate garbage speech like this. Gets my gag reflexes going.Quote:
Originally Posted by John83
What i'm hearing is you have a sub-optimal pharyngeal-laryngeal harmonisation. There's a pill for it but, ah ... that punchline writes itself.
Of that shortlist, it would be Hughton for me. O'Shea could be a good manager some day, but he needs to grow from success and failure with a few clubs first.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
So basically three options that have already said no, one that couldn't hack it in the MLS or the English non leagues and an FAI lapdog with no senior management experience other than a few friendlies with Ireland which we have played dreadfully in.
Great.
I was a Chelsea fan as a kid before they were good, hated how Ranieri was treated, kind of gave up on the whole premier league thing years ago. I still love Claudio, just seems like such a gent. Damien Duff was also his mam's favourite footballer which is a random anecdote I don't even know why I remember. I doubt there's any chance he'd ever be interested in a country at our current level, but he could do the Trap thing, and swan in a couple times a month, definitely not what Irish football as a whole needs, but also, would I absolutely say no if he was interested? :D
I love John O' Shea, but I also don't think he should get the job yet, I desperately don't want it to become another Staunton situation. Maybe John really does know what he's doing, but honestly that Hungary performance was crap, and we only won because they really did not care. We need way more evidence than good vibes and 4 friendlies.
It was lovely to win, great to see Idah and Troy score, all that good stuff, is… good, but I'm also not sure we learned much, or that we will learn much from playing Portugal either, especially given they played 2 games in a week already, and this is their 3rd and final one right before the tournament starts. We'll know more after the game obviously, and I'd love to feel positive about the whole thing, but there's a big air of desperation about the place and we must not just jump at John because we don't know what we're doing :D
I also feel incredibly strongly that we can't appoint Keane. He actually has a better CV than John now after what he did, but between where he choose to manage, what he had to say about it, and even sitting on a massive contract while the FAI was insolvent, has massively damaged how I think about him as a person. I hate that I feel that way, but I do. Maybe I'd feel differently if he made a statement, or after some time passes…
Legality is not equal to morality and all that.
A lot of these people probably don't actually care that much about the national team. To them it's secondary to a club team or the domestic league or whatever. They're probably just sick of hearing about it and want the position filled so just give the lazy answer. It doesn't matter to them really if it doesn't work out. Also a lot of people aren't that bright, the "give it to xxxxxx to the end of the season" types that always come out of the woodwork whenever manager roles come up etc.
Again it's the " just give it" mantraQuote:
Originally Posted by Razors left peg
Jesus it's more important than any junior ministry
" Just give it" no thanks
Can we please have a qualified candidate please
Quote:
Originally Posted by Razors left peg
I suspect behind the scenes the FAI have been pushing RTE to get their pundits to back O'Shea for the gig just so they have an excuse to hire him and claim it's a man they are happy with and not because they know as well as we do that they have no-one. I mean come on, how can you be slamming Kenny for months/years and then be 100% behind O'Shea based on what we've seen over the last 4 games? It's so obvious these pundits are being given scripts to read off and I just feel embarrassed for these pundits as its clear even they don't believe the guff they are saying.
We all know O'Shea is going to be appointed the manager, its just worth keeping in mind that this is because they never had anyone to begin with and not the BS excuse the FAI will conveniently come up with, my money is on "We ArE iMpReSsEd WiTh ThE pRoGrEsS" or something along those lines, its all nonsense.
Just look at the performances, do the players honestly look like they are playing for him....just look at the injury list for this window, like I've said previously do you think these players would be "injured" if we had a Euros coming up? They just dont want to show up to camp which sums everything up.
That's my issue with RTE's punditry. They put their mates first and the interests of Irish football 2nd.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eirambler
Since right after the Hungary win, from Didi Hamman losing the run of himself, I've seen a whole bunch of ex pro's jump for O' Shea to get it, a bit too easily and uncritically, and you would worry they're setting their pal up for a fall.
Im not worried about what they are doing to their pal, Im worried about the rest of us having to suffer through it for the next 2 years.Quote:
Originally Posted by Acornvilla
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diggs246
It's not really a great argument, is it?Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Cawley
The players want him - but the players will back whoever's in charge at any given time. The players wanted Stephen Kenny.
"No matter who comes in it's going to be a struggle" - probably true, but all the more reason to try find someone who can maximise results/performances.
"He's well liked" - I mean, good for him, but that doesn't necessarily have anything to do with it.
Haha, for sure. I know people who reach levels of achievement like he has, must have incredible self belief, but this is one hell of a big swing to take for yourself as a real first time job, say he got it and goes badly, he is done before he's even begun.Quote:
Originally Posted by Razors left peg
I mean do the players really want him, the body language of players in each of the 4 games and overall performances suggest otherwise...Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
Do clowns like Cawley not realise that hiring O'Shea and Kenny, managers clearly not ready for this level, are a big reason why we are struggling? This whole "give it to O'Shea because we'll struggle regardless" is the attitude of someone who clearly doesn't care about the team going forward. If he cared he'd want the best man for the job not essentially a "just get it over with" attitude.
Correct, O'Shea is well liked by the players he used to play with...like I said previously the performances on the field tell a different tale.
And like I said in a previous post this all feels like a set up for O'Shea to get the job using RTE as a tool of influence. It's bordering on propaganda at this point lacking in any sort of logic or reason.
But the point is that he's already done badly. It's rare you get a chance to trial a manager before hiring him full time. He's had 4 games and he's shown an incredible lack of ability to learn from one game to the next. We been tactically inflexible and tactically naive, especially against Portugal. He's shown no ability to adjust anything, expect sub one similar player for another. Never once tried to get the top goalscorer in the Championship playing through the middle instead of out wide. I could go on and on.Quote:
Originally Posted by Acornvilla
I was open minded with him after the Belgium game, but I don't know how anyone could now have watched all 4 games and think he should even be discussed for the role full time
Why get rid of Kenny if the next option is O'Shea? Because is there any material difference in our approach to games with O'Shea compared to Kenny's last year in charge. The writing was on the wall for Kenny after Greece away and the team progressively lost shape in the games that followed. We have regained a more compact shape with O'Shea and he has brought back in some older heads, but otherwise we are playing as we did under Kenny's last year in charge when O'Shea was an assistant coach and having direct involvement in how the team plays. Giving O'Shea the job after Kenny is akin to how O'Shea game manages. We change personnel but keep doing the same thing that isn't working.
What makes Cawley's comment even more bizarre is, according to someone on twitter, Cawley claim not too long ago that in his opinion assistant managers shouldn't be hired as they "have the same ideas/methodology" and should leave with the manager.
What changed for Cawley, his theory about assistant managers leaving seems to have some sort of logic but his theory for O'Shea to stay doesnt have any logic and is (in blunt terms) complete garbage. Like I said earlier just reading from a script.
Is anyone in Irish punditry holding out and saying O'Shea doesn't look a good fit? A completely homogenous set of opinions - when those opinions seem optimistic at best to so many here - suggests arms being twisted for sure.
Thinking back to Jack Charlton... he put the fear of God into players. And he wasn't liked.. he was loved. Being likeable isn't enough. Whether it's as easy to put the fear of God into Irish international players as it used to be is another question as the status of international football has changed IMO over the years with so much money in the club game.
Bad and all as Kenny was - at least he had experience.Quote:
Originally Posted by ifk101
The team really needs someone to steady the ship - we are not going to get close to qualifying for anything with O'Shea in charge and it would be a waste of two years growth for the younger players.
I'll go back to my original suggestion - a highly regarded coach, with a good managerial record in the PL and has experience of international management - Chris Hughton.
And so we are clear - John O'Shea's record as a coach is - an uneventful 2 year stint as a coach at Reading - 10 months at Stoke - and then an utterly disasterous 3 months with Wayne Rooney at Birmingham (one of four coaches hired and fired with Rooney).
There is zero reason to believe that he is any good as a coach - and his judgement seems far from stellar as well.
I'm not too hard on the FAI over the O'Shea interim appointment. It was a free hit, and if it had worked it would have looked inspired.
But it hasn't worked. Nothing vetured, nothing gained, but it's time to move on to serious candidates.
A manager / boss has to be respected ~ ~ Liking / loving you is for your Mammy and Daddy and maybe your Wife / Husband ! ! youQuote:
Originally Posted by texidub
I've said it from the start. Give it Gitsy!Quote:
Originally Posted by Jolly Red Giant
Would be nice also for him on a personal level to have managed both countries of his ancestry
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fixer82
His time is long gone, yes he'd better better than what we have now but that isn't saying much.
Chris Hugthon and John O'Shea = = The Dream Team.
Hughton has serious knowledge of the game and I've no doubt he would set us up to be a well drilled team that is hard to beat. I was never against him, but as it stands I would bite my own hand off for him. He cares about Irish football and his knowledge of professional underage structures could be exactly what the FAI need in the coming years - Rovers and Bohs etc are doing great work but I mean a national co-ordinated structure. He's not as exotic as Sagnol, but he knows the score here and has an emotional attachment to us - with Sagnol if he was successful in the next two years (having us compete and maybe beat Greece/Finland etc) would he stay for 2028, which is a big campaign for the country. I'm not sure.
Right now, we are a mediocre team with potential to be a good one. We have very good goalkeepers, very talented centre halves and a very decent selection of strikers. Btw, I'm comparing us to lower 2nd seeds to higher 4th seeds in my comparison of quality. However, you look at what countries like Scotland and Hungary have and that's good midfielders. We just have to hope some of the u21s or younger age groups produce something. Mad when you think we produced players like Giles, Brady, Whelan and Keane in the past, but hopefully we produce even a good pl quality midfielder. Until we have that, having any kind of cohesion to our play is very hard. I had hoped Knight or Smallbone might be those players, but I'm not sure they'll be anything more than decent championship players.
You're assuming they won't hire him.Quote:
Originally Posted by backstothewall
Again, we are relying on people we can't rely on( the FAI)
I absolutely do not what Houghton but what I will say, if we had to take Houghton if it meant we avoided O'Shea I would offer him the contract in the morning. It's so evidently clear that this team needs someone with knowledge and experience as you can just see the confidence is shot and the players dislike playing for Ireland.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bungle
The issue I have is with the comparison of Hungary and Scotland is we certainly are better at the back man for man than both when it comes to defence and GK but in practice both sides look much better defensively than we do. My big issue is if we cant even get the defence right (an area we actually look pretty strong in, Kelleher in goal and a CB duo of O'Brien & Collins is probably as good if not better than most teams outside of the major nations can come up with at the Euros this summer and with potential for growth given their ages) what hope do we have of getting the areas of the field we are less good in? We can talk about the midfield until the cows come home but ultimately our 2016/2018 sides were constantly getting outplayed in midfield as well by pretty much everyone yet we were able to stay in games due to us being strong at the back and being compact as a collective and if anything we should be even better now than then as what we have now that those sides didn't have is a goalscorer in Evan Ferguson. Whatever we say about the midfield there is absolutely no excuse for this side to be poor defensively so if we cant fix that area of the field then the whole team is a write off.
Like I said previously this is all theatre, they are absolutely going to hire him and right now they are just trying to create a narrative that they can hire him and not get ridiculed for it...that's what RTE is being used for now by providing them with scripts and twisting their arm to say nice things about O'Shea.Quote:
Originally Posted by Diggs246
We are like battered wife'sQuote:
Originally Posted by CSAD
We put up with this cr*ap and they keep on sh*ting on our heads.
Btw the FAI have saved circa 300k because we've no manager in half a year. Why isn't that extra lolly being allocated to the new managers salary. That would be over 1m
I think this could actually be what transpires, with Paddy McCarthy.Quote:
Originally Posted by seanfhear
In football you need the right man taking on the right job at the right time. We're so soft at the momnent I think a bit of Hughton leadership might be what we need. (Edit: kind of what Bungle said above. I've been away and am catching up on activity here).
It's completely true, I don't want Houghton as a manager but I feel what he might bring, leadership etc, is exactly what the doctor ordered. What bothers me watching Ireland more than anything is how easy we are to play against, you feel disaster is almost inevitable when the opposition has the ball and that's the most annoying part.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
Good post CSAD.Quote:
Originally Posted by CSAD
As you say, if we can't get our strengths right, it really is concerning. That's where a good manager can enhance your strengths and likewise negate our weakness (midfield - central midfield really).
I do think that Hungary and Scotland (and others) benefit from having one or two good/very good players in midfield. Top midfielders can do it all - neither McGinn or McTominay are anywhere near world class but put them in a well coached Irish team and we would instantly be 100% better - a bit of nous around the pitch, protecting the defence and chipping in with goals. Imagine players like them feeding Ferguson and our other strikers.
Hughton definitely brings that bit of nous and experience.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
I don't have a clue who else is realistic for us anymore - Anthony Barry made such a difference under Kenny so he would be interesting, but again he's so well thought of in the club game, I don't really get why he would take a chance with us.
Especially when you don't have the money to tempt some-one like Barry to take a chance !Quote:
Originally Posted by Bungle