Its absolutely not pointless as it provides an interesting background to your anti-Lisbon Treaty views.Quote:
Originally Posted by mypost
Why are you afraid of answering the question?
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Its absolutely not pointless as it provides an interesting background to your anti-Lisbon Treaty views.Quote:
Originally Posted by mypost
Why are you afraid of answering the question?
As opposed to you discussing the EU staying out of the Russia/Georgia thingQuote:
Originally Posted by mypost
Ireland will not withdraw from the EU, the EU will not break up, and it won't revert pre-Maastricht either, i.e., pointless.Quote:
Originally Posted by OneRedArmy
Ireland is a pro-EU nation, that doesn't mean you must obey what your government demands on a whim. We have a constitutional democracy. There has been a referendum which has produced a verdict. The government is therefore obliged to respect the outcome of it, whether they approve it or not.
Avoided the question again.Quote:
Originally Posted by mypost
This is the reason you avoided it. You, and Libertas too, are inherently anti-EU, but you cleverly realised that would never sell in the referendum as we like to see ourselves, by and large, as a pro-European nation. So you, in your posts earlier in the thread (and Libertas in their literature) sold the No vote primarily on the basis that Nice was working effectively.Quote:
Originally Posted by mypost
You don't believe this for a second (nor do Libertas), you actually don't agree with the post-Maastricht situation (maybe you don't even agree with a free trade area, but you won't say so who knows?). See your posts on the Georgian situation for an example.
Its this deception that Libertas have engaged in and this will become clear over the next 12 months as they roll out their campaign for the Euro elections. Ganley, the proud Irishman that he is, used Ireland as a pawn to launch his anti-EU platform and we lapped it up with a compliant media and a bumbling Government.
This has nothing to do with the benefits of Lisbon, its a thinly veiled attempt to dismantle or otherwise begin the process to materially change the existing European structures.
Once again, no I'm not. :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by OneRedArmy
No I didn't, but yes it is.Quote:
you sold the No vote primarily on the basis that Nice was working effectively.
You don't believe this for a second
Most people, including the Euro-sceptics agree with it.Quote:
(maybe you don't even agree with a free trade area, but you won't say so who knows?).
Nothing to do with it.Quote:
See your posts on the Georgian situation for an example.
Ganley isn't anti-EU.Quote:
Ganley, used Ireland as a pawn to launch his anti-EU platform
The broadsheet media, and the state broadcaster are pro-Lisbon, as with every EU treaty.Quote:
we lapped it up with a compliant media and a bumbling Government.
:o
:D:rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by mypost
What do you base this on? Because he says so? :DQuote:
Originally Posted by mypost
He might be pro EC though (i.e. economic free trade area)
He's a businessman. 90% of them are pro-EU, and like the Dail, automatically vote in favour of EU Treaties. The few who don't, have actually read the treaty, realise what is at stake, and what we stand to lose under this one.
I wonder will this wonderful survey that the Government are currently drip feeding to the Press, which will be released in 2 weeks time, tell us why people vote Yes
I am sure that
"I want Ireland to stay in the EU"
"It must be right because nearly all the main stream Partys supported it"
would feature large.
I am sure that for every stupid reason people had for voting No, there is an equally ridiculous reason why people voted Yes.
Still waiting for your response to my question on the previous page.Quote:
Originally Posted by SMorgan
PS In reference to the above, I haven't heard any non-aligned Yes supporter claim the main parties ran a good campaign, ergo people will have voted Yes and No for ridiculous reasons as they didn't understand the Treaty.
Of course thats a compelling reason that it should never have gone to referendum...
Our constitution demands that it has to. Whether it should or shouldn't, is irrelevant.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OneRedArmy
Sorry ORA i missed your question on the previous page.
My point is that its silly to try to draw a distinction between the constitution and the supreme court. The Supreme Court is the gaurdian of the constitution and its preposterous to say that the constitution doesn't say but the supreme court does. That's to attack the very legislative foundation of the state.
In relation to the other matter, if a referendum is required then there is no way around that regardless of how compelling the case is. That's the problem with a written constitution. The alternative is making it up as we go along. (The Law Lords, The House of Lords). I know which system i'd prefer.
I think the point being made is that neither the constitution nor the supreme court says that european treaties must go to referendum.Quote:
Originally Posted by SMorgan
If they didn't we wouldn't have them. There's no way the government of the day would allow EU treaties to go to referendums, if at all possible. If they could, they would do away with elections too. Sure the voters are stupid, don't know what they're voting for, and don't understand the consequences. Don't they?? :confused: Better to form a government themselves, as in 1994. :rolleyes:
No that wasn't the point previously made. If it was, then I wouldn't have responded. He made the point that an "unelected supreme court" may have considered it necessary but that didn't necessarily mean the constitution requires it. That's what I took issue with.Quote:
Originally Posted by Student Mullet
Results of survey on my people voted
Can we take the vote off these people as unable to inform themselves?Quote:
An opinion poll commissioned by the Government found that 42 per cent of people cited a lack of knowledge, information or understanding of the treaty as the reason for voting No. It was by far the most significant reason given for voting against the treaty.
By the same token, can we take the vote off the TD's and MP's around Europe, who read the party lines, rather than the Treaty before "voting"?
Assuming we can't, then No.
Should have a general election, because the Government TD's incapable of explaining it.Quote:
Originally Posted by pete
I'd like to see the questions asked, because I know no one who thought conscription or abortion was an issue, yet these continue to be the focus of the Government when discussing the result. Was it a bit like Mock The Week's this is the answer what was the question...
My mother gave out to me for voting yes because I could have been conscripted and sent off to some war.Quote:
Originally Posted by Macy