Martin O'Neill and Roy Keane

He said that his reasons for declaring were a higher chance of first team football and less players ahead of him in the pecking order. That's straight from the horses mouth. And there is no rule bending here. He is eligible under the rules but let's please not try and justify it and act like there was anything else factoring in his reasoning other than professional reasons.

I'm not enamoured with it TBH. I would rather Irish players and players that feel Irish to play for Ireland and I'm not the only one. Indeed fans aren't the only ones (Cunningham, Harte, Kitson, Barton, Kerr) all have the same viewpoint as me and all, Barton aside, have spoken eloquently on the matter. Let's respect each others viewpoints, eh?

It's not up to me though, bottom line, so as long as the boy has talent and application - that's all you can ask for.

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Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks

He said that his reasons for declaring were a higher chance of first team football and less players ahead of him in the pecking order. That's straight from the horses mouth. And there is no rule bending here. He is eligible under the rules but let's please not try and justify it and act like there was anything else factoring in his reasoning other than professional reasons.

I'm not enamoured with it TBH. I would rather Irish players and players that feel Irish to play for Ireland and I'm not the only one. Indeed fans aren't the only ones (Cunningham, Harte, Kitson, Barton, Kerr) all have the same viewpoint as me and all, Barton aside, have spoken eloquently on the matter. Let's respect each others viewpoints, eh?

It's not up to me though, bottom line, so as long as the boy has talent and application - that's all you can ask for.

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The fact is he is eligible there are too players who are eligible who do not want to play for career reasons.

He said he was delighted to pull on the shirt.


Have you got a link to the relevant article?

I think there us a bit of wordsmithery going on. Afaik he was asked when the call came and he answered that when it did he had no hesitation because his chances of playing were good and this was a real incentive. So, yes, a high likelihood of playing made it attractive. That's not to say other factors don't make it attractive too. I think too much is read in to relatively inarticulate people having a mike stuffed in their face.

I see TOWK's point but I think it's exaggerated. Here is a good player, very happy to be involved, committed immediately and as eligible as many others. At first glance he looks better than Doherty but Doherty will still get his chance if he and Wolves continue to do well.

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Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks

I am a pragmatist and a realist.

I don't equate acquiring a passport to become eligible to play competitive Intl. football with embracing your heritage or having an affinity to the country you declare for.

I am sure Deco, Emmanuel Olisadebe and Eduardo had an affinity with Portugal, Poland and Croatia after they declared but it doesn't have much to do with what I'm saying TBCH.

Anyways, I appreciate Christie's honesty in a way. And on the basis of that one game, he has potential.

How times change! I remember Zat Knight saying virtually the same thing as Christie and people were firmly against his call up; this was ten odd years ago.

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How do you resolve the conflicts between the those two ideologies?

http://hereisthecity.com/en-gb/2014/...nterest-for-r/

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On the decision to snub England's advances for Ireland, the Coventry-born defender commented:
'I always knew about the Irish connection and it was one that I wanted to do.'

'England under-21s were in touch with me at the same time but Ireland was the best option for me.'

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I came over (to Dublin) when I was younger. I can't really remember much about it but I was over when I was younger. She lives in England now but some of my family are over here. They live not far from here (Malahide)."Yeah, I always knew about the Irish connection and it was one that I wanted to do.

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So that is quite clear, it is in the past tense, he don't say "it is the one I want to do now", he
said "that is the one I wanted to do".

Anyhow he is happy with his decision which he describes as a "no brainer", I am happy with it
too as is MON OK, maybe TOWK is not so happy, but as the saying goes:-

You can please some of the people some of the time, all of the people some of the time, some of the people all of the time but you can never please all of the people all of the time.

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Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks

He said that his reasons for declaring were a higher chance of first team football and less players ahead of him in the pecking order.

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He spoke of contributing factors. He didn't say those reasons were to the exclusion of all others. Stop being disingenuous by again attempting to suggest he said something he quite obviously didn't. The distinction can't be that difficult to grasp? Just because those were two factors in his decision, it doesn't mean there can't have been any other contributory factors and just because he didn't mention other reasons to your satisfaction doesn't mean you can fill in the significant gaps in your knowledge by jumping to rash conclusions. Thing is, as tricky highlights above, he did mention his Irish roots as being a contributing factor anyway.

Are you really a pragmatist? You struck me as more of an unforgiving purist.

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Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks

I am a pragmatist and a realist.

I don't equate acquiring a passport to become eligible to play competitive Intl. football with embracing your heritage or having an affinity to the country you declare for.

I am sure Deco, Emmanuel Olisadebe and Eduardo had an affinity with Portugal, Poland and Croatia after they declared but it doesn't have much to do with what I'm saying TBCH.

Anyways, I appreciate Christie's honesty in a way. And on the basis of that one game, he has potential.

How times change! I remember Zat Knight saying virtually the same thing as Christie and people were firmly against his call up; this was ten odd years ago.

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You are more delusional than anything else and YBIG might be a better forum for you. I now await the pained martyr reply of no one loves me or understands me!

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Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks

I am a pragmatist and a realist.

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Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks

I'm not enamoured with it TBH. I would rather Irish players and players that feel Irish to play for Ireland and I'm not the only one.

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So you're actually an idealist!

You call yourself a pragmatist and then say you're not enamoured with a decision that's the absolute definition of pragmatism.

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Originally Posted by OwlsFan

You remember that as a 9 year old? Fair dues.

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Is TOWK actually 19? I thought he was about 12! :p

Roberto responds...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eejsBC9x52s

Which comments of Keane's in relation to Martinez and the fitness of the players were actually serious? I've read that some (especially those about it being a miracle when James and Seamie turn up being able to walk) were made in humour, but does Roy really believe that sit-down talks are needed? If this is and has been a feeling within the camp generally, it's something that should already have been communicated to Everton in an official capacity/something that should have been acted upon before now.

The Guardian today says that the McCarthy injury was shown to be a grade one tear which has a typical 2 week recovery period, so if James was to play this weekend it'd be completely normal.

I haven't included the link because I read that in the print edition this morning whereas the online edition doesn't contain that quote.

It's hard to tell what's happening. Of course Martinez is going to protect his players' integrity and at the same time it's in his interests that they sit out an international break if they have an injury concern. Keane might be right to be suspicious but overall it means that the more excitable public start to question the players' commitment and the whole thing could probably be handled better by private conversation, not a game of media tennis.

In a way, this is hardly news. Club managers just aren't interested and are usually happier when their players don't play...

He was in Ireland when he was a prepubescent, he doesn't really remember it and he knew about the connection and it was one he wanted to do. OK that's me proven wrong so.

I said that he is fully entitled to declare for Ireland and MON is fully entitled to call him up. I even complimented his performance against USA and admitted that on first glance I may have been proven wrong about Doherty being a better option but I'm sorry his reasons for Ireland don't sit well with me and no amount of justifying it will change my mind.

There are people (Kilbane, McCarthy & McGeady) who do feel genuinely Irish and it trivialises things when you compare the likes of them to the likes of Christie.

Who cares? Half the Diaspora 20 years ago or so hadn't even set foot in the country!!!

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Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks

He was in Ireland when he was a prepubescent, he doesn't really remember it and he knew about the connection and it was one he wanted to do. OK that's me proven wrong so.

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What's wrong with you? If I point it out to you again, you'll no doubt accuse me of being patronising, but you really don't seem to get it (or you are being intentionally obtuse for dramatic effect).

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I said that he is fully entitled to declare for Ireland and MON is fully entitled to call him up. I even complimented his performance against USA and admitted that on first glance I may have been proven wrong about Doherty being a better option but I'm sorry his reasons for Ireland don't sit well with me and no amount of justifying it will change my mind.

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What's pragmatic about that? :confused:

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There are people (Kilbane, McCarthy & McGeady) who do feel genuinely Irish and it trivialises things when you compare the likes of them to the likes of Christie.

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So, what's the solution to your problem? It's easy to snipe from the sidelines, but you're all bluster when it really comes down to it.

I enjoy Keane for the most part but I think his comment about Martinez possibly not understanding Senior International Football, as he never played it, was silly and obviously meant as a dig. His comment regarding JG's father was potentially counter productive too, even if it was meant in good humour, which is debatable. I don't expect him to walk on eggshells but I do expect him to see the bigger picture and the potential damage his comments can cause.

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Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks

I said that he is fully entitled to declare for Ireland and MON is fully entitled to call him up. I even complimented his performance against USA and admitted that on first glance I may have been proven wrong about Doherty being a better option but I'm sorry his reasons for Ireland don't sit well with me and no amount of justifying it will change my mind.

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Why did you think Doherty was a better option in the first place? Had you really seen enough of either player to have an opinion?

Same with Keogh and Pearce... you said time and time again that Pearce should be ahead of Keogh in the pecking order, now after one friendly you're saying you're just as nervous with Pearce or Clark as you are with Keogh, a friendly Clark actually played well in. You're entitled to your opinion, of course, but your opinion is often based on very limited knowledge of what you've actually witnessed yourself. Nearly everybody on here admits they haven't seen enough of such and such a guy to comment, but you just pull the trigger regardless.

Can you explain how you're a pragmatist again please?

A pragmatist is someone who is pragmatic, that is to say, someone who is practical and focused on reaching a goal. A pragmatist usually has a straightforward, matter-of-fact approach and doesn't let emotion distract them.

Is this not the complete opposite to how you feel about Christie's inclusion?

I'm no fan of Keane but part of me thinks MON may be glad to have him as bad bad cop. Martinez has a history of discouraging players from playing for Ireland and the Grealishs are dicking us about at this point. MON can't come out and say it but Keane can and while it gets written off as more Keane rantings, i'm sure it will have given the recipients of the criticism something to think about. If Grealish doesnt do enough to warrant an England call up, this debate will go on for years like Stephen Ireland and Kevin Nolan. Somebody has the force the decision so everyone can move on. If he wants to play for us great, if not move on. Martinez is also likely to think carefully about persuding his players to drop out from now on knowing how it might be perceived.

Good points in fairness.