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I think the association of Kenny and Kerr comes from their obvious connection to the league of Ireland (although Kerr only played two league of Ireland players during his tenure) and their reputation of playing good, creative, attacking football. I'd ask anyone who anyone who still thinks Kerr did that at international level to go back and watch his last two games.
Not sure Kenny would get the respect of the players in the same way Kerr only got the respect of the players he had underage. I could be wrong but that’s the impression I got at the time.
Still, I’d support whoever got the job.
O’Neill needs a miracle in Denmark to keep his job. Or, you know...a goalless draw
I would tend to agree which is why I suggested that he would develop the relationships, trust & respect better with a wider pool of players as U21 Manager or Senior Team Assistant Manager that would allow him to step into the Senior Team Manager role at some point in the future.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fixer82
What is the general view here on the 3-5-2 or whatever formation we have been playing? I know it's the vogue formation in the Premier League now and perhaps if we had Declan Rice or a similar calibre defensive midfielder we could make it work, but I actually believe it is a key part in our team's dysfunction.
While some players may play in that system at club level I would say they are still the exception rather than the rule. If the preparation is as basic as we've been led to believe, I think 3-5-2 is not a formation conducive to players figuring out on their own like a 4-4-2/4-5-1/4-4-1-1 that is more self evident.
There are many ways to play with a 3-5-2 but the worst way is when your wingbacks play with fear and sit as fullbacks, and you end up with a 5-3-2 against inferior opposition, which we did last night.
In order for it to work, we need two pillaging wing backs.Quote:
Originally Posted by irishfan86
We need dynamic midfielders also.
Unfortunately, the team don’t seem to understand the tactics fully. And that’s mainly the manager’s fault
Mick McCarthy with Damien Duff as assistant manager.
First job is to actually communicate with players in the weeks and months between games. Including finding out whether eligible players are actually interested
Second, when they do communicate it should be for more than just telling them that they are all crap in the media.
Third, have the manager actually turn up to training and set out a plan for games and not just roll in 2 hours before kick off to tell players who is picked.
Not exactly high standards we should be looking for here.
The team are not coached to play the manager's game, it just appears that O'Neill assigns roles and tactics written on the back of a sweet afton pack, 30 minutes before the game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fixer82
I think our best option is 4231 but with another coach. 4231 suits teams who are deficient in skills, but allows for other strengths, teamwork, counterattack and pressure upfront on the opposition. Good full backs should be able to get forward when it's practical, two midfielders in front of the back 4 give good protection against (for the most part) better ball playing teams. We have plenty of players who can play in the three midfield positions and An Other up front.
The idea of the players not respecting Kenny, were he given the job, makes me really laugh.
These lads fail to do the basics of the game, simple cross-field passes going out for an opposition throw, mistakes galore, no idea what to do with the ball, no movement, etc etc.... hammered by Wales and blessed not to be last night, they hardly try a leg in front of the fans who journey to see them....pathetic stuff.
If they're too big-headed not to listen to a fella like Kenny then I wouldn't have them in the squad. They don't have a leg to stand on, this is a nadir.
Martin O'Neill is even worse than Trapattoni and I really disliked Trap's attempt at football. O'Neill has a 35% win record as manager of Ireland, which is joint worse wins record of any manager we have from the Charlton days until now. A loss against Denmark will mean he has the worse record of any recent Irish manager. We don't even have a go anymore, we are almost happy if we just see a shot on target. He is doing countless damage to Irish football and how he can still be left in charge after the horrendous style of football we play, the performances we have produced and all the stories off the pitch is beyond a joke at this stage. The FAI need to find the money and sack him.Quote:
Originally Posted by IsMiseSean
I think Stephen Kenny could do for us what mon has done with NI. Id maybe take Lennon but id stay away from the dinosaur types MON mccarthy kerr trap allardyce etc. Although i could probably accept Strachan. Chris Wilder would be my first choice although i dont think wed get him. Either way mon has to go.
Turn over to the Rugby until the terrible two get the Heave Ho .
Delaney won’t act until it hits the bottom line .
If only we had a Joe Schmidt managing the soccer team .
O’ Neill is like a Rugby manager from the 70s....Away ye go lads !
Did you mean Gene Wilder?Quote:
Originally Posted by Jovial Rambler
I agree we don't seem to understand the tactics part of it, but we need eleven players (that includes the keeper) who can keep possession of the ball. Any time I ever coached kids I always told them there are three fundamentals which will determine whether you make it or not in the game. They are (a) ball control / first touch (b) shielding the ball (c) change of direction. Watch any Champions League game and you'll see every player can do all of the above. Unfortunately the Irish lads need to go back to those fundementals (if they ever had it to begin with) in order to be successful.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fixer82
If we go with him then we’ll be in a world of pure imagination. What we’d see would defy expectationnnn.Quote:
Originally Posted by mark12345
I heard that comment that some players might not listen to a fella like Kenny on one of the radio sports shows, it's just a random comment from someone on the radio, it doesn't have any merit, never mind reflect views of the players. I suspect the players would be basking in a freedom from tyranny honeymoon period should Kenny be offered and take the job.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yard of Pace
What we need is TO'D to stand up tall, stick the mike up into Mon's face and with a manic grin ask would he not admit to the reality and resign like a real sporting gent, that even Clough knew when he was past it.
The notion that the players wouldn't listen to Kenny is laughable. Most of the current squad haven't played a game in Europe whilst Kenny has managed a team there. Also he's an impressive and intelligent man when he speak. First impressions would be strong there. Lads that don't listen to him might be the same lads that allowed former Shams manager and his League One strikeforce press them to the hilt against NI.
The ultimate failing with Kerr was he wanted to do the job. And by that I mean he didn't want to leave any stone underturned, a Joe Schmidt mindset you can say. For the players, the international games are a break from "work".
Think Kenny would face the same culture Kerr encountered.
I think he wanted to do it too much, players didn't want to watch DVDs of Cyprus IIRC
The senior players at the time included Robbie Keane and Shay Given, who were partial to a bit of partying. They have retired now, and I think the new generation of Irish players are much more professional. Seamus Coleman being the shining example.Quote:
Originally Posted by ifk101
I don't think the players would deliberately snub Kenny, but maybe subconsciously he wouldn't command the instant respect of a bigger name. Whether our players have played European football or not isn't likely to matter too much, they play at a consistently higher level than the LOI, both in terms of publicity and actual standard, be it the PL or the Championship. I don't think it's unreasonable to fear the job would be too big for him, but it would be intriguing to find out.Quote:
Originally Posted by Olé Olé
Yes this is precisely what I meant.Quote:
Originally Posted by DeLorean
In the same way some players may have subconsciously thought Kerr is used to managing kids, not senior internationals.
And where is the proof that Kerr wasn't able to command respect in the dressing room?
Kerr got a rough run of it. First campaign, inherited a team that had lost their first two matches and their best player. Managed to turn things around but had some bad luck in the final match.
Second campaign, missed out on playoffs by one point. In qualifier group with eventual World Cup finalists.
In one of the away qualifiers Kerr was shouting instructions to one of our players ( I actually think it might have been Kilbane believe it or not, but I'm not 100% sure tbh) and said player turned around and saidQuote:
Originally Posted by brine3
" we know what were doing Brian" that's not professional respect
Our performances with the players we had might suggest it.
Throwing away two leads against Israel.
Not performing against Switzerland when we really needed to.
He didn’t have us motivated the way he was able to get the absolute best out of his youth teams.
We didn't have bad luck in the final game, we were garbage away to the Swiss and lost 2-0 iirc. He had turned things around by winning the games he'd have been expected to win and got us into a position where two wins from our last two games would have qualified us. We got one draw.Quote:
Originally Posted by brine3
Second campaign if we'd won both games v Israel we'd have topped the group and we would have were it not for his tactical calls, particularly in the home game when he replaced Robbie Keane with Kavanagh after Keane picked up a first half knock instead of going like for like.
When push came to shove and we needed results he couldn't deliver them. Bringing Roy Keane nack into the fold didn't pay off either, it p1ssed off a chunk of the squad and he wasn't the same player at that stage anyway plus was injured regularly.
The time was right for him to go, the problem was who the FAI brought in to replace him.
And I say all that as a Kerr fan.
But is it Kerr's fault that he inherited a poisoned chalice? Keane did very good away to France where he played their midfield off the park.Quote:
Bringing Roy Keane nack into the fold didn't pay off either, it p1ssed off a chunk of the squad and he wasn't the same player at that stage anyway plus was injured regularly.
I am a fan of Kerr. I do think he could have done better. He made some strange tactical decisions such as playing Zinedine in central midfield, which smacks of not wanting to take a risk so much that you actually end up taking a risk by doing something silly like that.
But people are saying he didn't have the respect of the players. When I saw Kerr's teams I didn't see a team where the manager had lost the dressing room.
go back and watch the 0-0 game against Switzerland. I still remember Andy Reid walking off the pitch when he was substituted, like he just didn't want to be there any more
I was at that game. The fans had to roar at the players to get into the box for a last minute set piece we had. Its was horrendous to be there and see thatQuote:
Originally Posted by tetsujin1979
So was I, South terrace behind the goal.
Total myth, absolute bull.Quote:
Originally Posted by Diggs246
The game was v Israel away, Kerr was actually roaring at Kilbane to get forward.
Kerr had no problem to gain the respect of star players like Roy Keane and others. I doubt if Kenny would have any hassle with feeling he had to earn the respect of current 'star' players with the likes of Burnley. But there is a question how well Kenny would adapt, not everything he has touched has turned to gold. Certainly I'd welcome another season at Dundalk :)Quote:
Originally Posted by brine3
Personally Id like to see Kenny have another go "Across the Water". Id have no doubt he would be sucessful, especially when you see what Paul Cook has done.
Is that not pretty much what he said?Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
Keane had made a forward surge, Kilbane did not follow up to give support, Keane lost the ball, Kerr gestured and shouted to Kilbane that he should have supported Keane. I'm pretty sure Kilbane did not turn around and say "we know what we are doing Brian". Other wild interpretations of Kerr's instruction to Kilbane was that he was exhorting him not to go forward, as in don't take risks. I'm sure Chris took notes and recorded the incident on his clipboard.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fixer82
Routine is biting hard and ambitions are low. Resentment is riding high and emotions won't grow.
Time for us to change our ways and for Martin and us to take different roads.
Before we get torn apart.Quote:
Originally Posted by brine3
Again.
I see now what you were saying. ApologiesQuote:
Originally Posted by geysir
Therefore Andy was disgruntled with Kerr? That’s one hell of a stretch. The team put in a spirited performance that night, the Swiss matched our vigour and we lacked guile. The image of Kerr from that night was the frustratingly conservative Kerr, going like for like with poor subs, sticking with 2 upfront going into the last 15 mins.Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsujin1979
To this day I think Israel away and that late equaliser was a Sliding Doors moment in Irish football.Quote:
Originally Posted by Drumcondra 69er
I thought we were unlucky at home to Israel and their cnut of a goalkeeper.
I don't think we were remotely unlucky at home to the Swiss. Harte missed an early sitter but that was it from then on. The Swiss players' body language said it all. Despite it being a perfect result for them they were disappointed. And Kerr took off Keane in that game when we needed a goal.
I love Kerr but despite any hard evidence all the talk was that he wasn't working well with the dressing room.