Potentially eligible players thread

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Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence

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"You can decorate absence however you want- but you're still gonna feel what’s missing.”

― Siobhan Vivian, Same Difference

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Originally Posted by Diggs246

Scott Hogan is doing a medical with Villa as we speak, staying in the championship will mean he is slightly more likely to declare for us

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A move to Villa has to be good for our chances. Steve Bruce has never stood in the way of players playing internationals that I'm aware of, including his own son when he was with us

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Originally Posted by backstothewall

A move to Villa has to be good for our chances. Steve Bruce has never stood in the way of players playing internationals that I'm aware of, including his own son when he was with us

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Did Dean Smith prevent Hogan from playing for Ireland?

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Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks

Did Dean Smith prevent Hogan from playing for Ireland?

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No. Not that we know of although I'm sure he would have wanted Hogan to prioritize his health and club career. It has always seemed that it is Hogan who is preventing Hogan from committing to Ireland.

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Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks

Did Dean Smith prevent Hogan from playing for Ireland?

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Maybe but not that I'm aware of. He probably didn't encourage it either though. It's just an impression i get but it seems like Bruce thinks being an international helps players develop.

Maybe that impression is completely wrong but it's an idea about Bruce that I've picked up from somewhere.

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Originally Posted by OwlsFan

I can't believe the fuss over Hogan and his value based upon a good run at Brentford. I am not talking from an Irish point of view where my motto is sign them up even if they only watched an episode of Father Ted but based upon a season at Rochdale and half a season at Brentford. Is he that special ? The standard in the Championship isn't that high. Look at Jordan Rhodes - can score for fun in that league but can't get in the Boro side in the EPL. The latter lacks pace - perhaps that is what Hogan has. Haven't been monitoring his goals so not so sure what is so special about him.

2010 Woodley Sports 27(21)
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2014– Brentford 33 (21)

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The only concern is from an Irish point of view, nothing else matters.
If it does turn out that Hogan is worth the faith shown in his ability and ends up playing for Ireland, then all is well with life.
If it doesn't work out, then we are not losing anything.

Bamford has joined Middlesbrough permanently in a deal worth £6 million after poor showings whilst on loan from Chelsea at Norwich, Crystal Palace and Burnley: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/foo...lesbrough.html

He seems to suggest his privileged background has held his footballing career back due to a sort of reverse-classist stereotyping from figures like Sean Dyche at Burnley.

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Originally Posted by Ian Ladyman

Bamford's last goal, however, was almost two years ago and it was for Middlesbrough. In truth, the 23-year-old's time away from the club has been disastrous. He has barely played for a season and a half.

He laughs about it but that's not because he doesn't care and admitted yesterday that his last loan spell, at Burnley, has left him particularly driven to make up for lost time.

'Me and the boys got on fine but me and Sean Dyche just clashed,' he said.

'I could sit down and talk to him now and be civil but we had different ideas of football. I didn't get a chance. His team has done great, mind. I can't argue with that.'

Bamford's back story is well known. Privately educated with a string of GCSEs, he is also a talented musician. Having turned down a Harvard scholarship, he wouldn't change any of it but wonders now if his upbringing has worked against him with some.

'There were a few comments at Burnley,' he said. 'Dyche said that because I had come through at Chelsea – and because of the way I had been brought up - I had never had to work for anything.

'My background is irrelevant and I didn't even come through at Chelsea. I started at Nottingham Forest cleaning toilets and scrubbing the shower floors.

'So saying I didn't want it enough was upsetting. I went home every night wondering how to get in the Burnley team.

It was: 'You've been brought up nicely, had everything handed to you'.

'Is that what people think just because I went to private school and played instruments?

'People don't know. My parents never let me have everything. If I started something I had to finish.

'Like with violin. I started when I was seven only because my best mate wanted to. I hated it and wanted to quit but dad made me continue and I got to grade seven.

'My parents said I had to know the value of stuff and work for stuff. But when you get dragged along in paper headlines about things outside the game, football people pick up on it.

'People think I don't mind that much but for me not playing is the hardest thing ever. Sitting in the stands has been a nightmare.'

The day he scored his last goal in April 2015 Karanka described Bamford as: 'The best young player in the league. He is amazing'.

It was strange, therefore, to read the Middlesbrough manager's comments this week as he talked about the club's failure to spend big in the January window.

'Patrick didn't play for 18 months so I don't think he is an amazing improvement,' said Karanka.

When this was put to Bamford yesterday he was unfazed.

'I totally didn't know about that and I'm not worried,' he smiled.

'He has spoken to me a few times already and we have a great relationship. Even after I left first time we were texting and in contact. He trusts me and that's important.

'He said last week: 'I know you will try and do everything at once. But remember that you haven't played for 18 months. I know you will become the player we know you can be but don't try and do it all in one go'.

'For me, that was perfect. I know I will get in to the team when I am ready and I think that will be in the near future but he is playing it his way.

'He has worked at Real Madrid with Mourinho. He has seen how to manage players. He will get me to where I need to be.'

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Gareth Southgate comes from a working class background. There's still hope!

Aye, we've all got the Rosary beads out...

Lukas Jutkiewicz scored a late winner for Birmingham against Fulham yesterday. It's his eleventh this season for them, which is only three behind Scott Hogan. Goal here:
https://youtu.be/4VXPwgrB3LI?t=258

Trevor Sinclair, whose mother is from Sligo, was on 'Off the Ball' yesterday evening and claimed he'd happily have played for us if only the FAI had approached him before the English FA did.

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Originally Posted by Trevor Sinclair

If Ireland had have come for me first, I definitely would have gone for Ireland. I definitely had an affiliation with Ireland. We were brought up that way although I lived all my life in England.

[Ireland] actually came in for me just after I'd made an under-21 appearance at competitive level [for England] and the rules at the time were that if you had played under-21 you couldn't change nationality. It's changed now.

There was an inquiry from Jack just before the 1994 World Cup. I'd had half a season at QPR and there was an inquiry came in from Ireland to see if I was available for the full-team. Unfortunately that ship had sailed.

But I'm sure if I had got that opportunity to play with the greats like Paul McGrath and Chrissy Hughton, I would have definitely jumped at it... You got McAteer instead!

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Link to the show here: https://www.newstalk.com/podcasts/Of...lair_interview

Adam Barton has scored for Partick this afternoon and I was reminded that he played for NI (senior friendly) and us (U-21), so I decided to look him up.

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/f...y-adam-8772617

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Barton was born in Clitheroe, but qualified for both Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland through his Belfast-born grandfather.

After being capped by Northern Ireland in a friendly against Morocco in November 2010 he then switched to playing for the Republic's Under-21 side and, although full caps have failed to materialise so far, he has no regrets.

The Partick Thistle signing said: "I was 19 at the time, doing really well at Preston and I got the call from Northern Ireland saying, 'We have a friendly against Morocco, are you interested?' and straight away I said, 'Of course'.

"I was eligible also through my granddad and if he had a say in it I don't think I would have made the step to the Republic, but I did and it was all good.

"I met some great friends there and it was great experience.

"Things didn't go as well as I thought they would, but that is fine, that was my decision and I am happy I did both because I have met some good friends through it."

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Originally Posted by DannyInvincible

Trevor Sinclair, whose mother is from Sligo, was on 'Off the Ball' yesterday evening and claimed he'd happily have played for us if only the FAI had approached him before the English FA did.



Link to the show here: https://www.newstalk.com/podcasts/Of...lair_interview

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Might be better in this thread. He can join the ranks of an impressive looking side at this stage http://foot.ie/threads/105089-The-ones-that-got-away

That Callum Robinson is looking great alongside McGeady and Horgan any time I see him. Wouldn't turn my nose up at him if he were really (gut test) interested.

How does Robinson qualify and has he ever expressed any indication of possible interest that we know of?

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Originally Posted by DannyInvincible

How does Robinson qualify and has he ever expressed any indication of possible interest that we know of?

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https://twitter.com/RobBrennan82/sta...36730520555521

Bit of talk over on YBIG culminated in his father retweeting the above.

EDIT: His father actually stated he doesn't qualify under that tweet. Case closed. Liked the look of him.

Doesn't his father tweet that he doesn't qualify for Scotland there? Only indication I can see about Ireland is that his father retreated the tweet about FAI investigating.

Who's Rob Brennan?

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Originally Posted by joe_denilson

Doesn't his father tweet that he doesn't qualify for Scotland there? Only indication I can see about Ireland is that his father retreated the tweet about FAI investigating.

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Aye, I'm pretty sure his father is saying he doesn't qualify for Scotland as his tweet is in direct reply to the tweet asking, "Can they check for a Scottish connection while they are at it?"

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Originally Posted by DeLorean

Who's Rob Brennan?

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A second-generation Irish (I think) London-based QPR fan who used to write for the Irish Post. He may have other media connections too.

There are five Irish players at Preston. I think if Robinson was eligible and interested, he would make his interest known.

And at the same time he hasn't come out and rubbished the idea either, until he does the speculation is valid.

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Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks

There are five Irish players at Preston. I think if Robinson was eligible and interested, he would make his interest known.

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This is going to sound absolutely ludicrous but I'm almost certain that at the time Grealish & Jordan Graham were called up from the Aston Villa youth sides to play for an Ireland U16 team Robinson was supposed to be called up too but couldn't get his paperwork done in time.

I'm struggling to corroborate this in fairness!

Nobody even knows if he is eligible, like Jutkiewicz.

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Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks

There are five Irish players at Preston. I think if Robinson was eligible and interested, he would make his interest known.

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You cannot say that, not to a certainty. Trevor Sinclair was never asked, had he been he says it would all have played out differently. Ciaran Clark was asked.

Neither can you say with any certainty that he isn't interested. As yet, these matters are unclear, unresolved, so saying what he would do were he eligible etc, well, how do you know he hasn't ?

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Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks

Nobody even knows if he is eligible, like Jutkiewicz.

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Jutkiewicz is eligible, that's not in doubt.

He said he wasn't sure if his Grandmother was born in Ireland or moved there at a young age.

He seemed unsure himself if he was eligible.

It's in an article I seen - pretty sure it was posted - I'd dig it out, but am on phone.

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Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks

He said he wasn't sure if his Grandmother was born in Ireland or moved there at a young age.

He seemed unsure himself if he was eligible.

It's in an article I seen - pretty sure it was posted - I'd dig it out, but am on phone.

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'I saw' TOWK. Can you explain why you haven't displayed the same antipathy to Tom Field that you display to many other potential Irish players?
And Wangball, I remember reading something similar to what you posted regarding Robinson and a call up which means it is probably somewhere on this site!

http://www.the42.ie/birmingham-strik...77090-Jan2017/

Here's an article on Jutkiewicz from Jan '17. He makes the comment about his grandmother either being born here or moving here at a young age, the article goes on to say he does qualify under FIFA regulations.

Danny Invincible would be the authority here but if his granny did move here as a child and stayed long enough to become a citizen would her children/grandchildren qualify??!

I see Villa lost again ending any slight chance of a play off. We should know very soon if Scott Hogan wants to play international football for us, as his England ambitions are now over for sure

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Originally Posted by Wangball

Danny Invincible would be the authority here but if his granny did move here as a child and stayed long enough to become a citizen would her children/grandchildren qualify??!

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Hmm, it'd be a more complicated scenario than your average case, but I'll give my (non-professional) reading of it. :)

If his granny moved to Ireland, she may have become a naturalised Irish citizen depending on her circumstances and whether or not she'd made a successful application in accordance with the criteria in effect at the time, but, if she did make a successful application and thus became a naturalised Irish citizen based on residing in the country for the requisite period of time and fulfilling the other conditions (being of "good character" and all that), there would be no automatic transference of citizenship to the next generation (Jutkiewicz's relevant parent) or the one after that (Jutkiewicz himself).

This is the old post-1935 law on naturalisation: http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1.../en/print#sec3

And the present post-1956 law on naturalisation, which had retroactive effect and replaced the provisions of the 1935 act: http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/INCA%...14.pdf#page=12

Under present legislation (the effect of which is outlined and explained here), in order for Irish citizenship to be passed on by descent from a naturalised citizen, I understand Jutkiewicz's relevant parent would have needed to register (or be registered by someone with the legal capacity to register them) in the Foreign Births Register.

For Jutkiewicz himself to be entitled to claim Irish citizenship, I understand his relevant parent would have needed to have been registered before Jutkiewicz was born. If his relevant parent was registered and thus was an Irish citizen before Jutkiewicz was born, Jutkiewicz would then and only then be entitled to register in the Foreign Births Register and acquire Irish citizenship by descent that way. Even then, it wouldn't be an automatic transference and it would be effective from the date of registration rather than the date of his birth. If his relevant parent hadn't acquired Irish citizenship by the time of Jutkiewicz's birth, Jutkiewicz would have no entitlement to claim Irish citizenship via descent.

Even if Jutkiewicz acquired Irish citizenship this way (by descent), there'd still be a problem and it wouldn't necessarily mean he qualifies to play for us. Mere possession of Irish citizenship is not sufficient, as we know. Article 7 of the Regulations Governing the Application of the Statutes (relating to players who acquire a new nationality) states:

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Originally Posted by Regulations Governing the Application of the Statutes

Any Player who refers to art. 5 par.1 to assume a new nationality and who has not played international football in accordance with art. 5 par. 2 shall be eligible to play for the new representative team only if he fulfils one of the following conditions:

a) He was born on the territory of the relevant Association;
b) His biological mother or biological father was born on the territory of the relevant Association;
c) His grandmother or grandfather was born on the territory of the relevant Association;
d) He has lived continuously for at least five years after reaching the age of 18 on the territory of the relevant Association.

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That means that is it has indeed been confirmed that he is eligible - tets asserts that it is - then it must be the case that his granny was actually born in Ireland.

It seems jordan mceneff has switched to us http://www.fai.ie/ireland/news/osam-...ary-friendlies . He looked the norths best player in the victory shield games before christmas as a playmaking number 10. He is at arsenal. His brother is mceneff at derry who switched to us last year ago but has never as far as I remember been involved in a squad for us. Our 16s looked quality going forward so he will hopefully add to the mix

If he's at Arsenal why is Coleraine listed as his club?

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Originally Posted by The Fly

If he's at Arsenal why is Coleraine listed as his club?

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For some reason they dont put the english clubs down for home grown irish lads at english clubs.For instance the knight lad is at derby and collins is at stoke.Maybe he has been let go but he was at arsenal during that victory shield in october so im not making it up

I came across a piece on the improved aura around Martin O'Neill's team and Irish supporters' resulting enhanced connection to it. A lot of the piece is relevant to this thread.

'An Appropriate Sense of Irishness': http://pogmogoal.com/republic-of-ire...ishness/24557/

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Originally Posted by Feargal Brennan

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It could be said that the greatest legacy that EURO 2016 gave to Irish football was a re-establishment of the relationship between the public and the national team, that had been somewhat fractured over the past 10 or so years. And that a sticky French summer would lead to the creation of new legions of Irish fans with great pride in the green jersey.

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The aura around the team is far different now, O’Neill’s pragmatic and affable nature, matched with an increase in squad experience and quality has lifted the mood.

Alongside this, much of the positivity around the Boys in Green both during the Euros and now in World Cup qualification is a rebirth, or at least a repackaging, of Irishness in the team.

Ireland have long been derided for a frivolous adoption of non-Irish born players into the fold, but the truth of the matter is that these assertions have been very unfair. Firstly, because most of Ireland’s key men over the past 10-15 years were born and raised in Ireland, Roy and Robbie Keane, Duff, Shay Given, Denis Irwin, Richard Dunne and John O’Shea to name a few.

And secondly the notion of an over exploitation of the ‘granny rule’ by the FAI, gobbling up the ‘unwanted’ scraps of larger nations, has been dispelled by the commitment shown by players such as Kevin Kilbane and Jonny Walters in a green shirt.

Kilbane has in fact been an advocate of players proving themselves to the national team manager before selection.

In an interview with the Irish Times in 2015, Kilbane, a player often more comfortable in his national team colours than those of the clubs who employed him, emphasised the need for passion.

“They’ve (new players) got to show desire to come in. They have to want to come and play for us. Once you’ve committed to us, there is no way further down the line that you would miss games in favour of playing for your club.”

As a perfect illustration of Kilbane’s point, he was very vocal in support of a call up for Harry Arter, a player keen to wear green. But expressed caution over the likes Mark Noble, who, alongside others, had only ever spoken about playing for Ireland in a theoretical sense and clearly using it for leverage.

However, the current squad can proudly boast a significant majority of Irish born players, with O’Neill selective of who he chooses for his squad. In fact, the EURO 2016 squad had the fewest non-Irish born players within it than at any other major tournament. O’Neill selected just six players born outside of Ireland, compared with 7 by Trapattoni in 2012, 12 by McCarthy in 2002 and 14 by Charlton in both 1990 and 1994, and 12 in 1988.

The primary issue has always been with identity, there is no issue with non-Irish-born players representing the national side, and most are as proud and patriotic to wear green as a man born within spitting distance of the Liffey.

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It could be argued that in the past Ireland have not been selective enough, when assessing their options, hurriedly rushing into snapping players up without a rigorous investigation into the player’s background and motivation.

Too often, when faced with a lack of options, random players were called up, with wildly differing degrees of success.

Clinton Morrison is a clear example, moderately effective for a time, but without the quality or consistency to be an Ireland regular.

Andy O’Brien, Paul Butler, Don Goodman and Jon Macken are just a handful that were parachuted into a green shirt, with little known of their commitment to the Irish cause.

Now whilst these players will divide opinion on their commitment, which in itself is virtually immeasurable, the issue that has irked modern Ireland fans is players turning the national team down.

This has been an unsavoury subject, with players such as Michael Keane, Patrick Bamford and Dan Crowley representing Ireland at an underage level, but declining further call-ups, to essentially keep their options open. The most famous example of this was the case of Jack Grealish, a promising talent, who had his head turned by nothing more than the suggestion of an England call up. The reality is that all three of these players are a million miles away from an England squad, with their club careers in no man’s land.

But in the case of Grealish, Ireland should credit themselves with the dignity with which they handled the situation. O’Neill remained stoic on the Aston Villa midfielder, whilst Roy Hodgson made the cooing noises at him.

The message was clear, show pride and ability in an Ireland shirt, then you have a chance. If you do not, then the Aviva is not the place for you.

Creating and managing that culture of commitment was something we explored here previously.

Ireland no longer need to, nor will they, pass a begging bowl around the English leagues again. This is seen in O’Neill’s handling of Scott Hogan of Brentford, giving the striker time to regain fitness, before making an approach.

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There is now a proving ground within the Ireland squad, and the non-Irish-born players have risen to the challenge. James McCarthy has risked the wrath of his club manager to play for Ireland, Jon Walters has become a fans’ favourite with his committed displays and Harry Arter has refused to let persistent injuries deny him a place in the Irish midfield.

International football can be used as a vehicle to further aspects in a player’s career, there is no place for that with Ireland, as a mentality change has seen Ireland genuinely have the best of both worlds.

There are no tears shed over the Grealishes and the Bamfords, instead a realism of maybe things happen for a reason, but if you have passion and talent, Ireland fans will love you whether you from Buncrana or Basildon.

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God thats well off the mark on Clinton. Very effective for us and anytime I see him on sky or hear him on talksport he is bursting with pride for ireland

Was it ever established if Connor Mahony is dual or not ? Very impressive off the bench V ManU today I thought on the right hand side.

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Originally Posted by liamoo11

God thats well off the mark on Clinton. Very effective for us and anytime I see him on sky or hear him on talksport he is bursting with pride for ireland

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Agree fully. Nine goals in thirty-six appearances over six years is a record to be proud of and he would have had more only for the emergence of Kevin Doyle and Shane Long, which is hardly cause to refer to him as being "without the quality or consistency to be an Ireland regular". He still had the quality to be an Ireland regular, only a player with a little bit more quality came along.

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Originally Posted by liamoo11

God thats well off the mark on Clinton. Very effective for us and anytime I see him on sky or hear him on talksport he is bursting with pride for ireland

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Yup, harsh to lump Clinton in with some of those other names alright. Clinton showed exemplary commitment and desire from day one and, as you say, he's still just as passionate about Ireland and clearly loved his experiences with the team. For that reason, the fans reciprocate such positive sentiment. Or I feel most do anyway. I certainly do; I'm a big fan of Clinton. I'm pretty sure he speaks of choosing Ireland (over Jamaica and England) as the best decision he ever made. I think he's a great example of a player who may not necessarily have grown up feeling massively Irish or who may not have been all that in tune with the Irish aspect of his heritage, but, in opting to represent Ireland, he grew into it and was able to explore and develop that dormant or latent element of his identity. And that's fine, as far as I'm concerned. He embraced the Irish aspect of his identity and gave his all. Can't ask for more than that.

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Originally Posted by CraftyToePoke

Was it ever established if Connor Mahony is dual or not ? Very impressive off the bench V ManU today I thought on the right hand side.

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His name did stand out, and particularly with the commentator butchering the pronunciation. He went with the more Americanised ma-HONE-ee rather than MA-hon-ee...

Can't see any sign that he's eligible, but you never know.

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Originally Posted by DannyInvincible

His name did stand out, and particularly with the commentator butchering the pronunciation. He went with the more Americanised ma-HONE-ee rather than MA-hon-ee...

Can't see any sign that he's eligible, but you never know.

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Rob Brennan tweeted about him but I'm not sure what it means.
https://twitter.com/RobBrennan82/sta...79077901914113

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Originally Posted by rob brennan

Connor Anthony Mahoney of #BRFC. Noel King definitely back enquiries into whether he is eligible for Ireland. Not sure on the outcome.

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