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also, two of the six third placed teams didn't make it through to the last 16 of the euros.Quote:
Originally Posted by DeLorean
a lot of sense in your post above. yes, the last 12 months have not been great but the darkest of the night is just before the dawn... as they say!
Yeah, I agree largely. Scotland were actually quite good for Strachan's first 18 months or so. But we were till lucky 3rd place qualified!Quote:
Originally Posted by DeLorean
O'Neill definitely had some great moments, more than most, but there's a lot I just don't like about him (anymore - I used to think he was the bees knees) and when results were good they compensated for that. They don't now and I think he is very lucky to be still in this job, particularly when it seemed he wasn't even that keen on it himself last year.
I hope you're right!Quote:
Originally Posted by jbyrne
Where I bide, the darkest of the night is just followed by more darkness.
If I was to draw a parallel with us now and some place in O'Neill's career it would be with his last job at Sunderland. He went from a good beginning to that losing streak, couldn't buy a win, manager O'Neill was having no impact, yet he was totally convinced that he could save Sunderland from relegation and still does to this day remain absolutely convinced of that. As everybody knows he was sacked, some nutcase manager was brought in and even he could bring about the highly improbable and save Sunderland from the drop.
I'd guess that many observers of Sunderland's plight at that time had little confidence in O'Neill's bravado.
If only you'd listened to me at the time when I told you Scotland always choke.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
It is bravado, and its also boll*x. When we won in Vienna to top the group, he couldn't talk us down enough, everyone should remember that. We consequently shrivelled and shrunk and that is still in process. All that ensuing campaign he talked us down, but now suddenly we are going to do the business in a group he doesn't even know his opponent yet ?? Balls. Self preservation and insulting peoples intelligence.Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
Totally. Hopefully it works though. :o
https://www.the42.ie/martin-oneill-r...urce=shortlink
Quote:
Ego and insecurity have followed Martin O'Neill around for his entire career.
For the Republic of Ireland boss, the smugness isn’t a good look when so much negativity currently surrounds the Irish side.
That article wont help his insecurity!
Could Mick McCarthy give some pointers to Roy Keane in his assistant coach role i.e. some actual coaching .
Put together the below table...the columns are the debuts of players between 17 and 21 per year...it's disturbing how few U22 players have debuted under Trap and Mon
Years is rounded off
Its really disturbing...arghr
Manager Career Matches Players Debuted Years as Manager Steve Staunton 2006–2007 17 11 2 Mick McCarthy 1996–2002 68 15 6 Brian Kerr 2003–2005 33 7 3 Martin O'Neill 2013– 51 3 6 Giovanni Trapattoni 2008–2013 64 6 5
https://foot.ie/attachment.php?attachmentid=2726&stc=1
https://foot.ie/attachment.php?attachmentid=2727&stc=1
https://foot.ie/attachment.php?attachmentid=2728&stc=1
Second Captains and Off The Ball both went heavy on the Stephen Kenny for Ireland theme yesterday. David Sneyd and Gary Breen were in favour of it. Very interesting view from Dan McDonnell who reckons that this Euro campaign might come too soon and that Kenny fancies a good run in Europe next season due to superior seeding so the long term approach could and perhaps should be Kenny.
Who's the other young player O'Neill debuted?
I find it interesting that there's been so much talk about "the next Ireland manager" lately; marks a clear public perception shift I think.Quote:
Originally Posted by Olé Olé
Possible Kenny could be best served coming in as U21 manager for a couple of years before moving up to the seniors, just to get used to the fold. Nothing against him particularly; but it's something that's worked at other countries - Southgate at England, Löw at Germany (who was assistant manager, not 21s manager, but same idea) - and it'd fit in with King seemingly not having his contract renewed while we can't afford to sack MON until after the upcoming qualifying campaign.
Not much demand for Roy Keane by any clubs . Could this gig be his last hurrah at coaching / managing ?
Given his reputation as a player, he will have opportunities, at least as an assistant. They may not be the sexiest, but there will be opportunities -- see the reports during the last campaign about Israel's interest.Quote:
Originally Posted by seanfhear
Your looking at the wrong column. He debuted 3Quote:
Originally Posted by Fixer82
Was looking at MON's Wikipedia page. He's on course to spending the most time he has in any managerial role in his career with Ireland. He did 5 years at Wycombe, Leicester and Celtic and is in his 5th year with us. Interesting.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rebelmusic
All I see is O’Dowda and Rice. Who’s the other one?
HendrickQuote:
Originally Posted by Fixer82
Trap gave Hendrick his debut.Quote:
Originally Posted by rebelmusic
Sure wasn't Marco Tardelli trying to flog him to half of Serie A!
no, that was Glenn Whelan i thinkQuote:
Originally Posted by Olé Olé
Not sure where to ask this question - but does anyone have MON's Ireland record?
Checked MON's wikipedia page and it says P53 W19 D18 L16.
My own records have P52 W19 D17 L16.
Wikipedia's would appear correct according to this - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matche..._football_team
Discount the Northern Ireland behind closed doors game and his record is as they've suggested above.
I was thinking that maybe you hadn't included the Belarus game in Turner's Cross but it's a drawn game you're missing.
I'm going full MON out. My patience / hope has expired.
A lot of people saying give it to Stephen Kenny. Could be a good shout. Although I’d fear it might go the same way as Kerr.
Neil Lennon could also be a good shout.
It seems to have just lost its momentum under MON and I don’t think there’s anything that can bring it back.
Lennon is just a mini-MON. I can't see much point in that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fixer82
Hibs playing nice football.Quote:
Originally Posted by zero
I do laugh at many ROI supporters rose tinted glasses. People calling for McCarthy to come back when he was roundly booed out of Lansdoen Road after Swiss game.
People lamenting Kerr not being involved any more when we played some dire defensive stuff under Kerr.
Chris Hughton i’m sure wouldn’t be tempted away from Brighton but would be nice to see get the gig as well.
McCarthy was 16 years ago. He has learnt a lot more about management in the meantime and has exceeded expectations with tight budgets and mediocre players at club level. Since then I think it's fair to say his personal stock has risen with the Irish public while Keane's has fallen quite a bit. The booing was largely Saipan related so I think that's totally irrelevant now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fixer82
Kerr should be involved in a senior capacity in Irish football administration but not a candidate for senior manager.
The worst thing about MON is that he didn't go or wasn't pushed 12 months ago. He wanted the Stoke job but wasn't offered the contract he wanted. Now, instead he has ruined a risk-free opportunity for a new manager to bed in and bed in his ideas. It's the worst of all worlds now.
I'd take Mick back in a heartbeat. Kenny would be a risk but I'd support it. We need to reinvigorate the U21 set up too and the next U21 manager should be someone being groomed for senior responsibility in a few years. There is a lot of talent and leadership among Mick-era ex-pros.
I'd like to see us go down the foreign manager route. Not Italian though...
A young German manager in the David Wagner, Daniel Farke mould.
What have we got to lose?
Ralph Hassenhutti is Austrian and available, he has strong Bundesliga experience , he considered an expert in counter attacking football, not a possession based tactician thoughQuote:
Originally Posted by IsMiseSean
I doubt we can get him in reality
Whenever Kerr's name is mentioned, I ask the same question - it's 7 years since his last job in charge of the Faroe Islands. Since then he's had a column in the Times, now he's writing for the Independent, and works as a studio pundit for Virgin Media (previously TV3) and co-commentator for Newstalk.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fixer82
Are we really to belive that no lower league English team with ambition (e.g. Peterborough, Salford, etc), no Scottish side battling relegation (take your pick), no League of Ireland side looking to build something (Limerick, Waterford, etc) have been interested in hiring him for the past seven years?
Why has nobody offered him a position, or to look at it a different way, why has he not pursued a position? Whatever the reason is, is it enough to stop him being linked with the Ireland job, or any position within the FAI?
Here is a question, if we get beaten 4-0 on Monday. doesnt anything change:? if its 6-0
What needs to happen to bring Delaney into this and of him to act. what's spurs him to sack them. a player Munity?
I thought that Kerr and the FAI are pretty much sworn enemies, no? And that they would never employ him again. (Whether Kerr would accept a job, I also think that he probably wouldn't...?)Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsujin1979
I could be wrong but I thought that that's how things are there.
As for club management, I'd say at his age, having regular media work to be financially secure, and with Noel O'Reilly gone, that it may not be very attractive to him...?
He's already achieved so much, wouldn't surprise me if he didn't have the desire to manage anymore (except maybe Ireland if somehow he was asked).
As was Roy Keane but they're now paying him €700,000pa for... am... something. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Yard of Pace
Kerr hasn't endeared himself with some bitter comments over the years, always happy to stick the knife in, but it is a shame he hasn't been involved at some level given his level of experience and success. He'd be far more suitable for the the role of 'Player Identification Manager' than Noel King, for example.
For the footballing reasons in your post, Tets, Kerr is absolutely a non-starter for me too. Add to that the acrimonious and bitter nature of his departure and it would be fuel on the fire. A complete non-starter.Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsujin1979
I would also like to stay away from the continental types to be honest - lack of knowledge of our pool and the potential of our domestic leagues would be a killer for us. The Trap experiment was just not really all that enjoyable when you look back on it objectively from the perspective of Irish football (there were some good days as a supporter, sure). He was a confidence killer. Similar to the last couple of years under MON.
As Stutts says, I would have Mick McCarthy back in a heartbeat. Every club that lets him go must regret it pretty soon after.
Ability to get teams playing decent football and to a level that is greater than the sum of its parts? Check.
Commitment to the hard work of international weeks? Check.
Passion for the job? Check.
Mick with Kenny in the assistant role from a succession perspective would be great too if they could work together. MON and Keane never did so its not beyond the realms of possibility. Kenny taking the U21 reins would be smart too.
I really want MON and Keane to go now but I am not convinced that it is going to happen this side of the qualifying campaign.
Kerr may have played defensive football but at least there was some kind of footballing plan, unlike now. Wouldn't have sacked him at the time. I also wouldn't appoint Kerr now though.
Stephen Kenny would be my choice. Modern manager, knows the players, decent football, not looking for a ridiculous salary. Don't understand why people keep associating Kenny with Kerr? Is it because they both managed in LOI? By that measure we should never hire anybody who managed in England, sure didn't MON manager over there...
I was completely against the idea of getting Kenny in as manager as I don't think he would get the respect off of senior players but surely anyone is better than Martin O'Neill at this stage. At least Kenny would have us trying to play a bit of football and attempt to score and not the puke Martin has us playing on a constant basis.Quote:
Originally Posted by brine3
I don't think Kenny would be a huge success with the players he'd have available - but he'd change the mindset of the team and get us playing again or at least attempting to play. Which could benefit us down the road with some of the decent youngsters knocking around our underage teams.
O'Neill has really just continued the Trap mindset (bar the Euros) of giving up possession and being happy defending for 90mins.