Stephen Kenny

Was this it kingdom? https://www.facebook.com/34186762857...8682647803579/

He sounded very desperate and defensive I thought mostly. First minute sounding very much like he's always sounded. We haven't played that great at all on the whole. It's the sound of a man under an awful lot of pressure brought upon by himself. I'd be worried for him there he didn't explode and end up with heart problems . :D I feel sorry for him now cos he generally comes across as a really nice guy. But when you start to feel sorry for someone it's usually not a good sign.

Listened again.you really can't come out saying things like we've had the best performance in ten years and lose 3 games , the 3 he keeps going on about. It just sounds so desperate. Great performances provide great nights and great results. He can't come out disregarding the ten years before him when he can't even get a win!

If we fail to win against Serbia we're mathematically out of the running having failed to win a single match.

I think it would then be an appropriate juncture to accept the inevitable - the experiment simply isn't working - we need to admit our mistakes, cut our losses and move on.

The warning signs were there very early on with Kenny, and things haven't really improved since then. We look uncertain from a defensive point of view, powderpuff in attack and, most damning of all, lacking in any discernable playing style and personality as a team. Fifteen matches in and I'm still at a complete loss as to quite what Kenny is setting his team out to do. And his lack of progression and improvement is exactly why Kenny needs to be given his cards, it's as if he's simply incapable of learning from his mistakes and the poor performances and terrible results his management has yielded thus far.

We've gone from being a very competitive side under the previous incumbent, one that lost only one match in the last qualifying campaign, our only defeat in the ten matches McCarthy presided over, to looking like desperate Pot 5/6 no-hopers.

Setting aside the scrappy friendly win over the part-timers of Andorra we're winless in the other 14, scoring only 6 goals. We're enormously frustrating to watch, the Kenny apologists are wont to claim we're a more enjoyable proposition to watch under his tenure, well it's an objective thing I suppose, but I just don't see it.

Ian Barraclough took charge of the north more recently than Kenny took up his position with us, and, with arguably lesser resources, they've won 3 of their last 4. And yes, COVID affects everyone including the north (pathetic to use that as an excuse as if we're at a disadvantage to other nations - we're not) and he's had to incorporate a lot of younger, more inexperienced players, too, in Ballard, Lewis, Thompson, McCann, McAlmont, Lavery, etc. He's simply got on with it and the slow but steady improvement in both performance and results is evident.

Enough's enough for many of us, I think.

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Originally Posted by Strongbow10

But I digress, in terms of Stephen Kenny, its neither here nor there as to whether he stays or goes. Makes very little difference unless we are tackling the bigger issues facing Irish football, things like contact hours the best young players get in this country (which is a disgrace by the way).

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I wouldn't really agree with this part of your post.

Certainly, there are issues with domestic football and underage football and and you've mentioned those, but it's always important that the senior manager is getting the best they can out of the players at their disposal.

Kenny's performance isn't the only important challenge to be faced, it may not even be the most important one, but it's still important.

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Originally Posted by brine3

It was not. I was at that match. We were all over them. They were lucky we only scored the two.

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agree. was at that match too. just after their 1st goal kilbane should have put us 3 - 1 up. quinn hit the post and side netting. probably the best away performance ever for me. certainly up there with paris 09.
i think peoples memories of the match are coloured by the last 15 mins or so when holland were on top but for most of the match we were superb

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Originally Posted by BOOMSHAKALAKA

I am addressing it. Some players got older and dropped to the bench, some players improved and got into starting positions, some players remained at the same level. When you weigh all of that up, Kenny has a slightly stronger squad than McCarthy. A big example of that is McCarthy had an over the hill Whelan while Kenny has a youthful Cullen who stepped up the levels.

Like, it's clear you're a big defender of Kenny but the squad strength argument fails because of the record of his predecessor with a squad of similar strength.

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I'm clearly not a bit defender of Kenny; I've been criticising him here. Don't be bringing stuff up I haven't been saying please.

I simply don't agree with you that Kenny has a stronger squad, particularly in the attacking positions which is where our problems are. They're appalling, we're struggling to score, and you can't win games if you can't score.

But you've made your mind up, so I think it's best to let it go there.

Kenny has more options than McCarthy did, whether or not they're better options is open to debate

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

I'm clearly not a bit defender of Kenny; I've been criticising him here. Don't be bringing stuff up I haven't been saying please.

I simply don't agree with you that Kenny has a stronger squad, particularly in the attacking positions which is where our problems are. They're appalling, we're struggling to score, and you can't win games if you can't score.

But you've made your mind up, so I think it's best to let it go there.

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I've made my mind up in terms of squad similarity. I've backed that up pretty comprehensively at this stage. McCarthy had the same issues as Kenny. That's the failure in this excuse for Kenny. His record compared with he predecessor is appalling.

If he stays until end of the euro campaign I think he would have to qualify for that tournament to keep the job given all the leeway he has been given in this camp

I think it worth a mention in terms of replacing SK the paucity of options among former players. It would be less of a conversation had we guys doing well in management IMO, but as it stands its very much

A stick with him
B get some busted flush from the UK merry go round where the likes of Paul Cook are being mentioned, which is incredible to me, but there we are.
C some career mercenary short term guy from the worldwide merry go round
D Jim Goodwin

Is it not unreasonable to think some of, lets just say the 2002 WC era squad, now be at a stage in their managerial careers to be suitable for the national job ? None are. Keane tried and Staunton was never a manager pre / post or indeed during his time as manager. Kinsella had a rattle at it too, but I think that's about it.

England has a gem in Southgate, NI have McCann, O'Neill & a handful more. Wales particularly from that time saw Giggs / Speed / Coleman & now Page do well. I am sure the Scots have a few around too, they usually do anyway. We have coaches, some respected ones too, and some not in our system anymore & you can say Hughton O'Driscoll & McDermott but I am on particularly about lads who grew up & lived here & that's where the trail goes dead.

The topic of player development is everywhere at the moment, but the lack of capable managers who's aspiration it would be to manage their country is just as pronounced.

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Originally Posted by CraftyToePoke

Is it not unreasonable to think some of, lets just say the 2002 WC era squad, now be at a stage in their managerial careers to be suitable for the national job ? None are.

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Well - Lee Carsley and Stephen Reid were in that squad...

But yeah, it's a good point in fairness. I don't know why that is. You can't even blame the lack of a properly-supported domestic league for it too much given the likes of Hughes and Giggs went straight in at the national team and did reasonably well. (I mean, it'd help if there was a proper domestic football industry for guys to come back to and cut their teeth in club management, including European level, if they wanted. But it's not the be-all-and-end-all)

I'm not really sure what the correlation is? Is it somehow suggesting we can't replace Kenny because Irish managers would be cheaper? Or are we being nationalistic and only looking for an Irish manager to develop the players ? It's not really that big of an issue if our national team manager isn't (or is) Irish. All that matters is they do a good job with what they have available

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Well - Lee Carsley and Stephen Reid were in that squad...

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Yes, the were also who I meant by respected coaches now sadly outside our system. And coaches, not managers.

I notice we have no shortage of ex player talking heads on the various broadcast outlets happy to throw rocks / shout encouragement from a safe distance though :)

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Originally Posted by paul_oshea

I'm not really sure what the correlation is? Is it somehow suggesting we can't replace Kenny because Irish managers would be cheaper? Or are we being nationalistic and only looking for an Irish manager to develop the players ? It's not really that big of an issue if our national team manager isn't (or is) Irish. All that matters is they do a good job with what they have available

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It's asking the question as to whether there's a structural deficiency within Irish football around developing our own coaches.

We can hire foreign coaches if we want (there was a lad called Charlton did well for us), but our structure would unquestionably be better if we were producing our own coaches to give us extra options. And it's not.

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Originally Posted by CraftyToePoke

Yes, the were also who I meant by respected coaches now sadly outside our system. And coaches, not managers.

I notice we have no shortage of ex player talking heads on the various broadcast outlets happy to throw rocks / shout encouragement from a safe distance though :)

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Indeed. it's almost like this is a safer option ! You cant be wrong commenting from the sidelines. "Hurlers on the ditch" I believe is the phrase from our GAA brethern.

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

It's asking the question as to whether there's a structural deficiency within Irish football around developing our own coaches.

We can hire foreign coaches if we want (there was a lad called Charlton did well for us), but our structure would unquestionably be better if we were producing our own coaches to give us extra options. And it's not.

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Exactly, yes. They head to the UK young, they play there, the often stay there post retirement also. This key resource is no more in our grasp than elite player development is.

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Originally Posted by TonyD

Indeed. it's almost like this is a safer option ! You cant be wrong commenting from the sidelines. "Hurlers on the ditch" I believe is the phrase from our GAA brethern.

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It's not that it's safer. There's money in it. There's very little money in coaching/managing here, so lads who move back here after their playing careers have fewer options.

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Originally Posted by CraftyToePoke

B get some busted flush from the UK merry go round where the likes of Paul Cook are being mentioned, which is incredible to me, but there we are.

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I wouldn't describe Cook as a busted flush at all. 2 League Two Titles and a League One title, its only at Ipswich he has struggled.

I don't see what Kenny has done that compares favourably to Cook or some other League One managers.

If anybody (outside Irish football at least) was looking for a new manager right now and compared Cook and Kenny, they'd take Cook in an instant.

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

It's asking the question as to whether there's a structural deficiency within Irish football around developing our own coaches.

We can hire foreign coaches if we want (there was a lad called Charlton did well for us), but our structure would unquestionably be better if we were producing our own coaches to give us extra options. And it's not.

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Ya i get that but has there been any deficiency in say Rugby? Most of the coaches that have managed successful provinces and successful Irish teams have come from outside the country. I see now you mean it as a more broad issue in the game in Ireland rather than related to stephen kenny or a new manager. There is definitely an issue, supply/demand, money, intelligence, brain drain pretty much like any other industry, and its worth considering as a general broader topic of football in Ireland.

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Originally Posted by osarusan

I wouldn't describe Cook as a busted flush at all. 2 League Two Titles and a League One title, its only at Ipswich he has struggled.

I don't see what Kenny has done that compares favourably to Cook or some other League One managers.

If anybody (outside Irish football at least) was looking for a new manager right now and compared Cook and Kenny, they'd take Cook in an instant.

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Paul cook doesn't roll off the tongue in China.

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Originally Posted by paul_oshea

Paul cook doesn't roll off the tongue in China.

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Great drummer though