Lisbon Treaty

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Originally Posted by GavinZac

My mistake.:confused:

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The "franglais" humour that upset you so much, was to demonstrate how stupid it is that a foreign head of state would demand referendums here, after one has being held. Because, when you examine his statement, that's effectively what he said.

We've had the opportunity to give our opinion, and have done so. For the sake of democracy, it's very important that we uphold the outcome of refs in our and other countries, and protect those citizens in Europe who were prevented from having them at all.

There is no "getting around" the result. The treaty requires a referendum here, any attempt to ratify it through parliament without a Yes vote in a referendum would be illegal, be subject to a tonne of legal challenges, lead to anarchy, and a guaranteed election defeat. The treaty is therefore aborted. When those in power accept that reality, we can relax knowing the Nice Treaty remains in operation in the EU.

Hugely amused that the No camp (and Mypost) are referring to a blatantly partisan British commissioned poll to support their point.

Interestingly your purile and infantile anti-French "humour" is also beloved of the English.

I thought we'd become more European in the last 30 years and finally broken the dependency link with the UK but clearly old habits die hard in some areas.

If you wish to discuss Sarkozy there is already a separate thread about him.

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/le...d-1442581.html

Fortunately sir, you cannot overlook the simple fact:

"In legal terms, all member states are equal on the council."

It's the legal position, not the population size, that counts.

Todays Irish Times says it all for me

http://www.irishtimes.com/feeds/imag...7279097510.jpg

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Originally Posted by mypost

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/le...d-1442581.html

Fortunately sir, you cannot overlook the simple fact:

"In legal terms, all member states are equal on the council."

It's the legal position, not the population size, that counts.

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That will be a nice blanket to cling to when were sitting on the outside of a two speed Europe (with the Brits).

"I told you we were right".....:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by OneRedArmy

That will be a nice blanket to cling to when were sitting on the outside of a two speed Europe (with the Brits).

:rolleyes:

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What "two-speed Europe"? The Brits ratified it a couple of weeks back. Any benefits for them?? :confused: No.

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Originally Posted by mypost

What "two-speed Europe"? The Brits ratified it a couple of weeks back. Any benefits for them?? :confused: No.

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Schengen and EMU are the first two examples.

Also the British position is very different. They (as a nation) at least are honest about their Euro-skepticism. Lisbon is an irrelevance for them as Labour will be slung out on their ear and the Tory's will start rolling back the UK's commitment to Europe. With us as their lapdogs given whats gone on over the last few months.

If you want, the use of the Euro is another example. But for all the doomsday scenarios of "two-speed Europe", it hasn't affected the lives of citizens. So citing those as examples of "two-speed Europe" are far-fetched.

You can't unify this continent. The people, cultures, languages, and the politics/policies of the sovereign states are so different and diverse, that what's good for one country, is not automatically good for others, and so a one size fits all political policy, is simply not going to work in Europe.

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FIANNA FÁIL spent less than a quarter of what Fine Gael spent on commercial advertising in the Lisbon Treaty campaign, figures obtained by The Irish Times indicate.

Libertas, the anti-treaty entity run by businessman Declan Ganley, spent more on commercial advertisements than all the political parties put together, according to the figures.

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http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...368580622.html

And Cowen was surprised that they couldn't get the vote out! FF obviously took their eye of the ball completely, and took a Yes vote for granted. Never mind all the finger pointing at apparent lies from the No side, maybe the Cowen should be looking in a mirror..

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Originally Posted by Macy

And Cowen was surprised that they couldn't get the vote out! FF obviously took their eye of the ball completely, and took a Yes vote for granted. Never mind all the finger pointing at apparent lies from the No side, maybe the Cowen should be looking in a mirror..

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Hardly surprising they assumed people would vote for them no matter what given the result of the last general election though is it

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Originally Posted by Macy

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...368580622.html

And Cowen was surprised that they couldn't get the vote out! FF obviously took their eye of the ball completely, and took a Yes vote for granted. Never mind all the finger pointing at apparent lies from the No side, maybe the Cowen should be looking in a mirror..

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Those figures only relate to official advertising so doe snot include leaflets & posters so could be misleading.

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Originally Posted by jebus

Hardly surprising they assumed people would vote for them no matter what given the result of the last general election though is it

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While at least 40% of the electorate are obviously a bit dim, but even I wouldn't under estimate how effective FF campaigns are, when they bother to put their backs into it.

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Originally Posted by pete

Those figures only relate to official advertising so doe snot include leaflets & posters so could be misleading.

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Yeah, so said Micky Martin on Morning Ireland - of course they spent much more on leaflets :rolleyes: He's fast being shown up as the new Dick Roche when it comes to waffle.

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Originally Posted by Macy

FF obviously took their eye of the ball completely, and took a Yes vote for granted.

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The polls had indicated otherwise for the past week, but right up until the first box was opened on the morning of the count, they thought they had it. :rolleyes: Citing the % turnout as the reason, despite the analysis of it only taken on the back of the Nice 2 turnout. :confused:

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Originally Posted by mypost

If you want, the use of the Euro is another example. But for all the doomsday scenarios of "two-speed Europe", it hasn't affected the lives of citizens. So citing those as examples of "two-speed Europe" are far-fetched.

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These three examples, the euro, the interest rate on your mortgage and not needing your passport to travel have definitely affected the lives of people.

150th thread post: :)

http://europenews.dk/en/node/12250

Since was not having a referendum denying rights?

"Let's assume there was a referendum". I stopped reading there.

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"Let's assume there was a referendum". I stopped reading there.

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As did the other 26 heads of state

Meanwhile: http://www.herald.ie/opinion/letters...t-1443999.html

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...40.html?via=mr

Just as well he's a journo, because you wanted want to have him as a lawyer, seem as he doesn't understand this sovereign nation's constitution. :rolleyes:

As Charlton asked Dunphy: "You call yourself a proper journalist??"

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Originally Posted by OneRedArmy

Schengen and EMU are the first two examples.

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Dead right, and look what happened to Rod Hull!