How come the milan fans had no trouble getting in ?? :rolleyes:
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How come the milan fans had no trouble getting in ?? :rolleyes:
Brilliant! :D
I got back from Athens very late on Friday night. Back to work on Saturday, and that night I just crashed and burned with tiredness. So today is my first opportunity to post on the whole fiasco.
First of all there are four parties to all this - UEFA, The Greek Authorities, Liverpool 'fans', and Liverpool FC. So in a chronological order, and backed up by videos, here's what I think:
LIVERPOOL FC
The first problem was the vibe coming from the club in the build up to the game. Forget the 17,000 allocation. The allocation had nothing to do with what happened in Athens, which I'll explain later. The problem was the likes of Rick Parry coming out with statement after statement saying 'we're going to have 40,000 in the stadium anyway, they should just give us the tickets'. He was subconsciously egging-on fans to travel ticketless. Thus creating the market for the huge and previously unseen level of ticket forgeries. What Parry should have been saying was 'Do not travel to Athens without a ticket'. And this message should have been hammered in to fans via the websites etc every day. Milan did this, Liverpool didn't
LIVERPOOL 'FANS'
First and foremost let it be quite clear that the people who mugged, beat up, stole and bullied other fans were not regular supporters of Liverpool FC. They were however, scumbag scousers from Liverpool, career criminals who for the most part wore no club colours, behaved like animals, sang racist songs, were off their heads on drink and drugs and who were generally loud, embarrassing and just plain vermin. These were also the same people that got to the ground, rushed the gates and caused crushes by pushing the queues. They are also the same people that fought with Milan fans and each other in the squares before and after the game. Probably not at a game all year and most of them seemed to be young scallies or jack-the-lad 40yr olds over on a jolly to cause mayhem. Scumbags
Regarding the muggings, only vulnerable people were targeted. Families, 50yr old men, women, slightly built guys etc. There seemed to be organised gangs at it, like they were well used to it. We were ****ting ourselves all day about getting done, but we just stuck together and stayed in groups. But it wasn't only by the scum. One guy who seemed like a regular Scouser, and knew other sound Scousers at our hotel, bumped in to them in Syntagma covered in blood. He proudly boasted that it wasn't his blood, but that of a tout who he'd 'just done over for a ticket'. Also scenes of Scousers scrapping over the right to buy tickets from a tout....disgraceful.
The thing is, even had Liverpool recieved a 35,000 ticket allocation, none of these vermin would have qualified for one anyway! Simply because they are not regular match goers and wouldn't have any loyalty points. So basically, no matter what allocation Liverpool would have recieved, THIS WOULD HAVE HAPPENED ANYWAY. Liverpool FC cannot legislate for scumbags from it's own city travelling and causing mayhem, even though they have no real connection to the club. However, something MUST be done about this. Is this the norm at all finals/big Euro aways??
It must also be pointed out though that there was a fair share of genuine LFC fans 'chancing their arm' with fakes. They also knew what they were doing, and knew it was wrong. They also knew that there were thousands of fakes in circulation. This is why there were huge queues from before the gates were even opened - fans hoping to get in early as they knew they had fakes. So they contributed too to the shambles. Unbelievable really when you consider the history of tragedy this club has...
The GREEK AUTHORITIES
Where to begin with this shower of muppets? Two police forces and not one of them worth a ****. Planning? Organisation? As old as the Acropolis itself.
1. Inadequate policing at all the metro stations - where were the queues?
2. Inadequate cordon around the stadium - Stadium Metro station should NOT have been used. Last stop should have been the station BEFORE the stadium.
3. Inadequate ticket checks before entering the Park area of the main entrance - Ticket just needed to be flashed at police.
4. Too many enter and exit points to park area of main entrance. Police lost control + inadequate ticket checks which is what lead to ticketless fans being able to queue at main entrance. When in truth ticketless fans should have been cordened off miles away.
5. Unbelievably, no queuing system at main entrance. No barriers to organise queue lines, no stewrards to manage queues, thus no orderely queues. Just a free-for-all.
6. Only one gate open for this free-for-all queue, which meant only 1 person being let through per time. Thus queues built up and up, bottlenecks developed and people began to get crushed at the front. This is why eventually a second gate was opened. Shortly after the whole lot was opened, things got so bad.
7. Inadequate ticket checks beyond main entrance - No turnstiles, No barcode readers, No electronic ticket counters. Nothing to check tickets for authenticity and detect fakes. No barriered queuing system here either.
8. Not enough stewards. Not enough Police. Inadequate and overwhelmed stewards. Even fans CAUGHT with fake tickets were just walking on cos the crowds kept coming! At immediate stadium entrance, fans with no tickets at all being let through by police, by simply saying they dropped their ticket....absolute joke
UEFA
Again where do you start?
1. Inadequate choice of stadium - capacity not big enough, not a football stadium. Why pick a stadium with no ticket checking facilities/turnstiles??
2. Inadequate ticket distribution - not enough tickets for club affiliated fans.
3. Poor event management - who organised this chaos?
4. Inadequate cordon around stadium.
5. Inadequate facilities for supporters around stadium.
6. Poor choice of city - only one airport.
7. They even messed up both teams hotels - Liverpool players/management had no hotel rooms the night of the final. A joke.
Did UEFA liase properly with Olympic Stadium management to properly manage the event? Or was it all left up to the Greeks themselves?
Also, Here are some video links to what went on in Athens, in addition to the ones at the start of this thread. They're not mine but they back up everything that's been said. It's been mentioned elsewhere that a name and shame thread is a possibility. If anyone knows any reds in the vids at the start of this thread doing wrong, can they please let the appropriate mods on these forums know their identity? There was also some pics of reds rioting in the squares in the national papers on friday. Would be great if someone could get these up as well as the pics were quite clear.
Chaos at Irini Station
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7wL4YC2cTw
Liverpool Fans Storm Main Entrance Gates
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Q2_YnFxbeo
Police Forced To Open All Main Entrance Gates
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvZA4fAPpIY
Fans with Tickets Locked OUt - Pre Riot
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6xsAcCck1E
All in all, all four parties are to blame in some way for what happened. UEFA are completely at fault in terms of event management, ticketing and security. It is their competition after all and in this day and age it was woefully inadequate organisation on their part. They insist on anal stuff like size of advertising boardings, Uefa signage and all things image related, yet the most important stuff like fan safety and secure ticket entry is shambolic? Put simply, UEFA are not football people....
On the other hand we, Liverpool, need to remove our heads from our arses. We have to admit that some of our so called 'fans' are scumbags. That we seem to attract vermin from the city to big finals. That something needs to be done about this. And to top it all off, it was SCOUSERS who caused all the mayhem. Not outsiders, Wolly's, or OOT's or whatever stupid f**kin name you want to call them. It was SCOUSERS. They did the mugging, the fighting and most of the gate rushing. They embarrassed the club. So lets see now what the vast majority, the genuine sound Scousers, are going to do about this? Name and shame, I'm all for it. We've had RTK, lets now have something for this....
The Italians did have some problems, but nothing like Liverpool. This was mainly because they had a whole entrance to themselves, with less than their 17,000 allocation travelling. Plus their ticketless fans got no where near the stadium as the Police were able to control that side of the ground easily due to the very manageble numbers. However on the LFC side of the ground there was alot more than 17,000 - and this is where the policing failed miserably. Like the Milan side, ticketless fans should have got nowhere near the ground, but they did......without any effort.Quote:
Originally Posted by anto1208
Not really a 'classic' as the same was done for the 2005 final. Anyone with half a brain will know that stuff like this is alwys pre-planned - it has to be due to logistics. Any parade would have happened the day after the final, so everything is pre-planned ahead. Evertonians just need to get a life really.....Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogue Trader
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4tothefloor
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO ratty !!!! Calm down we know how you reds get no need to kick off !! :D
Well I'm glad thats all cleared up now. It wasn't genuine Liverpool fans but as usual some n'er do wells with no association with the club. Funny how this keeps happening to Liverpool FC eh? How unlucky can you get? Pity those Scousers with no connection to Liverpool FC ruined it for all those genuine reds from Dublin, Limerick, Galway, Belfast, Navan, Drogheda, Cork, Tralee, Singapore...
I suppose you were there were you? If it was genuine fans I've had said it, but there's a big difference between scumbags/scallies over on a jolly and real reds with colours doing the s**t that was being done. The scallies were mugging Liverpool fans - yea that's the behaviour of real reds, the same fans that are world famous for being among the best in the world. As usual, talking s**t through your hole. That's what a combo of Bohs and Everton does to people - Jealousy and Bitterness :pQuote:
Originally Posted by BohsPartisan
Oh and I think your mixing us up with Shamrock Rovers ;)
One other thing, the ticket distribution at Liverpool FC has always been and continues to be a joke. Even for run-of-the-mill home games, tickets are unevenly distributed, in some appalling viewing areas, and sometimes not arriving until after the match. Anything remotely like a ticket restriction for away games, and the problem increases. It's distributed by a fancard, and match-accumulation basis. European games are even worse still, you can only travel as a member of the European travel club.
I pity the fans who went to Athens who faced all the stuff that went on there, paid €2k, went on a 5hr flight, and adjusted to a 2hr time difference, only to come home with nothing. It would have been better, cheaper, and less hassle watching it in the pub for €2!!
Jealous of Limerick? ROFL!Quote:
Originally Posted by 4tothefloor
Anyway back on topic, what I'm saying is this doesn't seem to happen with any other club. Why Liverpool. Just because those Scallies don't wear colours doesn't meant they don't go to games, theres always a fair few on the Glawdys st in Goodison so I'd imagine its likewise for the Kop.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4tothefloor
I nearly fell off my chair laughing at that , Its only liverpool fans that think they are the best in the world , Normally the barstoolers you meet in the pub talking about the "atmosphere in anfield" . :rolleyes:
Or did you mean best in the world for causing trouble then you may be right they are up there all right .:p
Its amazing that these small few cause so much trouble , i suppose they are the same small few that smashed up the toilets in old trafford and attacked the ambulance rushing to the hospital , now they cause all this trouble in athens........... you know what they go to an awful lot of games dont they ?? :eek:
You speak alot of truth there. However the ETC (European Travel Club) was done away with a few season ago. It's now done by a ballot :sick:.Quote:
Originally Posted by mypost
Lol. God that has to be the most inaccurate post in the world. Firstly, Athens was the only liverpool game this season at which there was trouble. In your post you mananged to pick the only 2 games at which there was bother in the last 2 seasons.Quote:
Originally Posted by anto1208
Remind me again, anto, for which club on merseyside is their an alcohol ban in place on all trains for away games? It aint LFC or Tranmere btw. Who was involved in the battle of Everton Valley, which was, according to the police the worst piece of football violence in the past 5 years.
That ambulance story is complete and utter rubbish and you know it. Alan Smith even came out and said as much at the time. Smith was applauded off the field when he was carried off and he actually thanked liverpool fans.
Liverpool are probably the only british club who can go to places like Greece and Turkey for CL group or knockout games and their is no problems between fans whatsoever. We actually have excellent alliances between fan group throughout europe nowadays.
A few idiots who went out for a p1ss up wrecked the final for proper fans. Their decision to charge the gates was utterly indefensible. BUT it was a tiny tiny minority of the fans who travelled.
Every football club in the uk, has it gang of idiots who follow their club. The vast majority of liverpool fans just like Evertonians and mancs are decent people who shouldnt be judged by the actions of a minority that follow their club.
As for our fans being the best in the world. I never said we were but many who visit Anfield on a CL night beg to differ. I have been to Goodison a fair few times and I wouldnt exactly describe the atmosphere as brilliant. Even in the later stages of your win against us last season, the park end barely managed a song. Lets see how Everton fans behave on their European adventure next season.
Difference is Reder, if Everton scallies start something abroad, you won't see me making excuses. All those things you mentioned about them are true, doesn't change the fact that red fans can't take a bit of responsibility for their actions. Its always someone elses fault.
I just said their actions were utterly indefensible.Quote:
Originally Posted by BohsPartisan
Yeah but you still put it down to "a few idiots", seemed to be more than a few.Quote:
Originally Posted by reder
As for the atmosphere at the Derby, the Glawdys was literally jumping, I have some phone Videos to prove it! :D
Look at the footage on the thread. There are about a dozen people involved. Look at any of the footage shown on sky news. It was the same piece shown over and over again. It was "a few idiots" that caused the trouble not an army.Quote:
Originally Posted by BohsPartisan
You obviously didn't read what I wrote properly either. This is the problem with Evertonians, gob****es. You exist to have a pop at Liverpool. It's pathetic - go read it properly, if you're capable...Quote:
Originally Posted by BohsPartisan
Not really. Liverpool fans are just so annoying that its fun to have a pop at them. Mind you thats a bit rich coming from a Limerick fan who from what I see here, you seem to exist only to have a pop at Galway. As for reading things properly, I'd imagine I'm capable of that seeing as how I have a degree in English. :pQuote:
Originally Posted by 4tothefloor
Remember, attack the post, not the poster even if a raw nerve has been hit. ;)
In fairness you're lumping the rest of the Limerick fans in with myself and LtiD, who do indeed have 20% of our overall components based solely on an unexplained hatred of all things Galway :)Quote:
Originally Posted by BohsPartisan
It's liverpool fans that have their heads up their arses and who refuse to face facts that annoy supporters of other clubs. There was an apology on your own official website. If you still don't believe it, have a read of this or search for any number of similar articles on google.Quote:
Originally Posted by reder
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/mai...01/sfnrp01.xml
I wouldnt believe anything printed in the British media about any football club. They tend to take any small sniff of a negative story and blow it out of all proportion. EL fans know that from the media here. They plaster the back pages of the papers when there is any level of trouble at any of the Dublin derbies. Also, do you honest believe that an ambulance coming from a football ground would not be escorted to the hospital by police and surrounded by police at the ground. Well?Quote:
Originally Posted by KildareFan
Also if something did occur in the area around the ground how can you be sure that it wasnt local idiots as opposed to liverpool fans?
Well this is what red issue, the leading man united independent fanzine, which utterly detests every single thing to do with Liverpool had to say about it. If anything occured the would have gone to town on it.
Red issue
Here's a better video. What a shambles. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjP-k15Db5I
BohsPartisan, you're a gas man altogether. I suppose you'd be on here scoffing as well if it was Ireland/Bohs fans that were treated like the Liverpool fans were, such as in the video above? :rolleyes:
Bohs fans wouldn't be robbing other Bohs fans tickets.
Well, considering Bohs have never and probably will never be in game at which there is chronic shortage of tickets, you can never be certain of that. According to the EL fans I know, Bohs are probably the worst behaved supports in the EL and regularly cause trouble at games. The words " glass houses live stone throw people" spring to mind.Quote:
Originally Posted by BohsPartisan
GavinZac, heres a thought. If you went to any country/city around the world and ask people to tell you something about Liverpool football club, im sure the 99% of the people will know of us and will relay positive comments regarding the club. If you ask them about Cork City, they will ask you "Who the hell are they".
########### Genuine point about Cork City#################
I am thinking about venturing to the Cork City V Derry City game tonight as im in Cork. As someone who worked in web developement for many years and is interested in football, I was suprised to find that the index page for your site does contain a proper advert for the game tonight (incl. ticketing etc). I would have expected the crest of both teams and the ko time and a link to ticket info. Having to search through link on the site is not very appealing and would turn people off going.
Hands of our joleen Jose you fecker , 10 mill for one of the best defenders in the prem league your joking .
Bohs mate i think just leave them off there is no point argueing with the red****e , the best fans in the world comment sums them up really , the only other people i hear saying rubbish like that is celtic stoolers . "You should have seen the atmosphere at the game , all the flags and scarfs and singing it was great " , what happened on the pitch " oh we lumped long balls at the lanky giraffe bolton style "
Very much not the case. We've had our incidents from our scumbag element but no more than Pats, Shels, Drogheda and certainly less than Rovers. Proably a knee jerk reaction because we had a couple of incidents at the start of the season. However theres a differece between two sets of burberry clad teenage hardmen decide to have a scrap and a situation where you are robbing fellow supporters. In fact we have been involved in a number of sellout games down through the years, mainly european games but also cup finals held at Tolka and there was never anything like that.Quote:
Originally Posted by reder
Ok, my "most troublesome fans" comment is probably untrue. As you suggested, I based that on the information I found on this site and the media. Like every other football club in the world, you probably have 99% decent fans and 1% troublemakers.Quote:
Originally Posted by BohsPartisan
Every single Liverpool game home and away is a sell out and this sort of bad behaviour has only surfaced at the CL Final this time (one game out of hundreds, im not defending it for one sec but lets puts things into perspective).
To the bitter (i.e. Anto)####################################
Firstly, seriously, if you want to progress and challenge for a CL place next season no amount of money should buy him. You need to keep a player like him to progress.
Secondly, you just made me spit my drink all over my screen. An Evertonian slagging people off about sh1te football. A supporter of Everton FC who are known throughout the land for "hoof" football. Id imagine most EFC fans have creaks in the necks after a game at goodison.
Everton slagging Celtic, now that's a good one :D
No i was slagging you !! read it againQuote:
Originally Posted by 4tothefloor
Quote:
Originally Posted by reder
See this is what i mean about liverpool fans liverpool are the hoof ball merchaints i dont know why you cant see that & you clearly havent watched everton all season they have moved from the long ball game , everything now goes through arteta or in the second half of the season fernades aswell . what is the point in playing long balls to johnson up front on his own . Yet you bring out this hoof ball nonsence , ive watched liverpool more often than id like and they have bored the arse off me every time i cant remember them playing in 1 single good game . remember those chelsea matches FFS
I watched you 3 times this season. The first time was against us at goodison, you battled hard and due to our pathetic performance won the game and deservedly so. However, there was no flowing football on that day. The 2nd was against us at Anfield where you put 11 men behind the ball and didnt exactly pass your way out of defence. The third was against the mancs at your place. In the first half you played some decent stuff but in the 2nd half you fell to pieces.Quote:
Originally Posted by anto1208
so you based your long ball theory on 3 games 2 of which where the derby where neither team could play passign football due to the nature and the Utd game where we played well for a half and then where outplayed by the best footballing side in the country .Quote:
Originally Posted by reder
do you see where im coming from then when i wonder how you decide we are a long ball team .
Got this article via email so don't have a link but its from the Reuters news agency, so I'm posting it in full.
Quote:
UEFA report severely reprimands Liverpool fans
By Mike Collett
LONDON, June 3 (Reuters) - Liverpool supporters have been identified as the worst behaved at European matches in a report to be handed by UEFA to the British Government in Brussels on Tuesday.
The report, which has been compiled by undercover police agents from a neutral European force over the last four years, will be given by UEFA president Michel Platini to British sports minister Richard Caborn.
UEFA spokesman William Gaillard told Reuters: "The incidents involving Liverpool fans have been well known to us before the trouble at the Champions League final which involved Liverpool fans last week.
"That was just the latest example. What other set of fans steal tickets from their fellow supporters or out of the hands of children? We know what happened in Athens, and Liverpool fans were the cause of most of the trouble there.
"There have been 25 incidents involving Liverpool fans away from home since 2003 and these are in the report -- most teams' supporters do not cause any trouble at all."
Problems occurred at the Champions League final when fans with forged tickets and even without any ticket gained entry to the Olympic Stadium for the match against AC Milan, while dozens of fans with genuine tickets were refused entry.
When Liverpool fans did try to gain entry the situation threatened to escalate out of control and the Greek police fired tear gas and used batons.
Liverpool have submitted their own report to UEFA which criticises the security arrangements for the final.
Gaillard added: "You must ask yourself why at the same match, with the same conditions, there was no trouble with the Milan fans -- only the Liverpool fans."
Liverpool fans were held responsible for the disaster at the 1985 European Cup final at the Heysel Stadium in Brussels when 39 mainly Italian fans died after a wall collapsed following a charge by Liverpool fans before the match against Juventus.
The tragedy led to English clubs being banned from European competition for five years.
Here it is.Quote:
Originally Posted by BohsPartisan
Full report from the BBC
Reds fans labelled Europe's worst
strange i could have sworn someone was trying to claim there the best :confused:, must be a blinkered red :p
Worst in Europe but Best in the world! :DQuote:
Originally Posted by anto1208
It just dawned on me the "best in the world" at causing trouble !! How did i not spot this before :DQuote:
Originally Posted by BohsPartisan
Credit where credit is due
looks like we getting yet an other kid in moyes has bought a good few kids at this stage i wonder will any start to pay off soon
toffeeweb:
Shelbourne teenager set to sign
16 year-old Karl Sheppard appears to have chosen Everton over other suitors like Celtic, Portsmouth and Middlesbrough and will join the Academy from Shelbourne for £100,000.