Stephen Kenny

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Originally Posted by Diggs246

If we have no funds circa 500k, I would take a chance on lee carsley, if we have extra funds circa 1m how about Chris Wilder?
Remember the Euro is easier to get to and may be attractive

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I'm not sure I follow: if we've no funds, then we're goosed from the get-go - and we know we have no funds! Assume you're talking about paying 500k a year to a manager, or €1m a year (Remember this is an organisation that still hasn't repaid deferred salary costs from last year.)? That shouldn't have happened previously, and it absolutely should not happen now. We've got to have the best value for money coach that we can afford. We probably have it right now. The government will not, and should not, put any money into the FAI that goes towards an inflated salary for the national team manager. Stephen Kenny is ireland manager, partly for what he wants to do with irish football, but also because he's cheap. Every extra penny needs to be diverted to structures, youth teams and the LOI. That only leaves going cap in hand to another benefactor. I don't want to think about that.

Forget the Euros. We're obsessed with the big days. This WC campaign is over with 4 games left to play. The next competition that we absolutely need to focus on is the Nations League. We need to perform well in that - one, if we get a favourable group, we need to capitalise upon it, or two, we get a stinker of a group and need to play to the max (Ukraine, Russia, ourselves and Slovenia sounds pretty **** to me - but that may not be possible due to politics hopefully). The next 4 games and the Qatar friendly needs to be an auction amongst the 40 or so options that we have now. the chopping and changing needs to be end by March 2022 - giving Kenny the first 4 games of the NL up to summer 2022. make the call on him then - if he's gone, then there is 2 remaining games in Sept, there is the october window and there will be friendly opportunities in either november or december ahead of the WC to prepare for the Euro qualifiers in March 2023. That's a roadmap, and it's a fair one.

Roy Keane - no thanks. Lee Carsley - why would he? Steven Reid is a possibility, but what has he done? He's got a glowing reputation, but he's moved around a lot, and has only recently cancelled his Scotland gig for personal/family reasons. We need some sense of stability. that rules out Duffer, he's not cut out for this gig. Robbie Keane is the outlier here. I've absolutely no doubt of it. I can't prove it, but it would not surprise me if there's some form of agreement with him to be offered the job at the existing terms of his contract, in the event that Kenny is sacked, rather than trying to end the contract prematurely at great cost to the FAI, and to the reputation of both the FAI, Keane and Kenny. And it will absolutely kill me if he gets it. and if he is a credible option in the eyes of the FAI board - then it will happen sooner rather than later, and that will be next week if we lose to Serbia.

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Originally Posted by John83

I expect a moral victory (i.e. a defeat) against Serbia, which won't put any more pressure on him. He'll have to lose badly to feel more pressure than he already is, and that's maybe unlikely as we are inclined to do well enough defending against better teams.

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No a defeat is not a moral victory, he needs to bring back the points he dropped vs az and lux a defeat is a defeat I think McGrath and Dunne were clear about it and they know the beautiful game

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Originally Posted by seanfhear

Certainly a better shout out than the others on Kingdom’s list.

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Just to be clear - it's not my list. It's Paul Lennon's list - he who did a hatchet job on Kenny last year around the Coleman situation - which Coleman was scathing about. Works for the Star. Where Cathal Dervan used to work.

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Originally Posted by Kingdom

I'm not sure I follow: if we've no funds, then we're goosed from the get-go - and we know we have no funds! Assume you're talking about paying 500k a year to a manager, or €1m a year (Remember this is an organisation that still hasn't repaid deferred salary costs from last year.)? That shouldn't have happened previously, and it absolutely should not happen now. We've got to have the best value for money coach that we can afford. We probably have it right now. The government will not, and should not, put any money into the FAI that goes towards an inflated salary for the national team manager. Stephen Kenny is ireland manager, partly for what he wants to do with irish football, but also because he's cheap. Every extra penny needs to be diverted to structures, youth teams and the LOI. That only leaves going cap in hand to another benefactor. I don't want to think about that.

Forget the Euros. We're obsessed with the big days. This WC campaign is over with 4 games left to play. The next competition that we absolutely need to focus on is the Nations League. We need to perform well in that - one, if we get a favourable group, we need to capitalise upon it, or two, we get a stinker of a group and need to play to the max (Ukraine, Russia, ourselves and Slovenia sounds pretty **** to me - but that may not be possible due to politics hopefully). The next 4 games and the Qatar friendly needs to be an auction amongst the 40 or so options that we have now. the chopping and changing needs to be end by March 2022 - giving Kenny the first 4 games of the NL up to summer 2022. make the call on him then - if he's gone, then there is 2 remaining games in Sept, there is the october window and there will be friendly opportunities in either november or december ahead of the WC to prepare for the Euro qualifiers in March 2023. That's a roadmap, and it's a fair one.

Roy Keane - no thanks. Lee Carsley - why would he? Steven Reid is a possibility, but what has he done? He's got a glowing reputation, but he's moved around a lot, and has only recently cancelled his Scotland gig for personal/family reasons. We need some sense of stability. that rules out Duffer, he's not cut out for this gig. Robbie Keane is the outlier here. I've absolutely no doubt of it. I can't prove it, but it would not surprise me if there's some form of agreement with him to be offered the job at the existing terms of his contract, in the event that Kenny is sacked, rather than trying to end the contract prematurely at great cost to the FAI, and to the reputation of both the FAI, Keane and Kenny. And it will absolutely kill me if he gets it. and if he is a credible option in the eyes of the FAI board - then it will happen sooner rather than later, and that will be next week if we lose to Serbia.

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I dont agree with the part to leave Kenny for the NL games that will be unfair with the new guy. listen 20 matches are more less fair with an international manager to get some profiler, his work will help in the future he was an ok under 21 manager and this was the next step, the thing is he is damaging his persona too it wont work ... for both parties

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Originally Posted by Kingdom

The next 4 games and the Qatar friendly needs to be an auction amongst the 40 or so options that we have now.

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Can't help but note this was my reasoning for starting Kelleher tomorrow, which you pooh-poohed. :) And I can't ignore a pooh-pooh, you know. Otherwise the forum will be entirely disbanded - by pooh-pooh!

One aside from all this actually is that realistically we've seen for a long while that we're on the down. OK, Kenny may have accelerated that, but we are where we deserve. The FAI's financial position is...parlous. At what stage do the FAI get so desperate that the grasp the nettle and make real reform in the domestic structure? How long can a bankrupt FAI survive as, say, fourth seeds in front of crowds of 15k and no hope of a finals payday? I'm not seeing any particularly easy way out of all to be quite honest.

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Originally Posted by John83

I expect a moral victory (i.e. a defeat) against Serbia, which won't put any more pressure on him. He'll have to lose badly to feel more pressure than he already is, and that's maybe unlikely as we are inclined to do well enough defending against better teams.

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we';re like a minnow side, lose by the odd goal against a big team and struggle to get any kind of a result against lower teams. A bit like say georgia or armenia(previous campaigns). It'll be hard to get the players motivated for tomorrow, especially when fatigue will be setting in for a few of them so early in the season. Serbia can top the group so they'll be very motivated and up for this one, as theyll see us as a wounded animal.

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Originally Posted by Kingdom

I'm not sure I follow: if we've no funds, then we're goosed from the get-go - and we know we have no funds! Assume you're talking about paying 500k a year to a manager, or €1m a year (Remember this is an organisation that still hasn't repaid deferred salary costs from last year.)? That shouldn't have happened previously, and it absolutely should not happen now. We've got to have the best value for money coach that we can afford. We probably have it right now. The government will not, and should not, put any money into the FAI that goes towards an inflated salary for the national team manager. Stephen Kenny is ireland manager, partly for what he wants to do with irish football, but also because he's cheap. Every extra penny needs to be diverted to structures, youth teams and the LOI. That only leaves going cap in hand to another benefactor. I don't want to think about that.
.

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One thing that I am worried about is regardless of what people thought of the old regime they generally read the mood correctly and appointed managers that people were happy with be it kerr, trap, mon etc. I'm not convinced theres "footballing" people at the top at the moment. Who knows what we could end up with. Still its like saying Gadafis not so bad because we dont know what could come after....

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Can't help but note this was my reasoning for starting Kelleher tomorrow, which you pooh-poohed. :) And I can't ignore a pooh-pooh, you know. Otherwise the forum will be entirely disbanded - by pooh-pooh!

One aside from all this actually is that realistically we've seen for a long while that we're on the down. OK, Kenny may have accelerated that, but we are where we deserve. The FAI's financial position is...parlous. At what stage do the FAI get so desperate that the grasp the nettle and make real reform in the domestic structure? How long can a bankrupt FAI survive as, say, fourth seeds in front of crowds of 15k and no hope of a finals payday? I'm not seeing any particularly easy way out of all to be quite honest.

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Ok, I'll qualify. I think it's akin to the Kelly/Given/Kiely situation. I don't think either needs a game for the sake of rotation or a game. Personally, I prefer Kelleher. I think he's the better keeper, has more of a presence (he's taller, but lighter), and is a better handler of the ball. But he's not playing games of any kind. It's the one position you need to be playing games. And bazunu is doing so, so deserves the jersey. If we want to give Kelleher a game, then let it be Qatar next month. Talbot/Travers/An Other know what they are (ball retrievers).

I don't think we need to see Kelleher in action now, because I think once he's playing games (assume on loan as he isn't being let go by Liverpool) he'll be grand, and he'll assume the #1 jersey naturally. I actually don't think it's a big leap to see Kelleher starting for Liverpool by the start of the 2023/2024 season. Next year he'll go on loan for the full season, and there could be am market for becker at a Madrid, Barca or that ilk, with Liverpool utilising the funds elsewhere - but I digress.

The financial point you make is crucial. We're in that horrid cycle that we need tournament finals to boost the coffers, but to splash the cash with no guarantee or realistic guarantee of reaching a finals (given the playing resources) only pushes us further down that financial spiral. there was 21k reported to be there on Sat. Does that include the people (like me) who had to buy a second seat just to secure one ticket? I said it on the matchthread how disappointed I was with the general Irish football fan. This is the first Irish match we could attend in how long, and it doesn't sell out? My brother - god love him - got a ticket. He enjoys football, but he hasn't a clue, and has never been to any match in his life. took his son who wanted to know why doesn't the team get a score when the ball went over the bar! They shouldn't have been anywhere near getting a ticket for the Azeri game. So I would say that crowds of 15k are entirely plausible. But why should the FAI be reliant on home international gate receipts? there's a rake of countries in UEFA who get smaller crowds than us regularly and have better systems.

Sponsorship and attracting a top-tier sponsor is an issue it seems. Wonder would (and not exclusively financial related) the FAI going for a UEFA 21s tournament help both financially, and with a sponsor? If so then we should be working hammer and thongs at hosting the 2025 version, or at a minimum an all-island finals. That is a realistic option from what I can see. The criteria isn't as stringent as senior tournaments. And it would be much more attainable than the romantic world cup bid (which will go to South America I reckon).
Sorry for the tangent.

Yeah, I agree Kelleher isn't helping himself with the situation he finds himself in - yet how do you move away from being Liverpool's second choice? A lot of keepers would kill for that. But I'd still like to see him involved in the setupia competitive qualifier - though let's be honest, we have four friendlies left really - but I am less worried about keeper than other places alright, even if Bazunu's luck with his howlers is going to run out one of these games.

I'm not sure how much money is really involved in the U21s; I would have thought it would be relatively low key still. You're right obviously that we should be considering any sort of financial benefit at the moment (and in fairness, we probably are). I think the FAI needing gate receipts is largely down to how much debt they have thanks to covid and some other numpty who I'd like to say is worse than covid but that's probably unhelpful hyperbole but he is a *****. But yeah, without money to invest in clubs, our young players get worse coaching, so our senior squad gets worse, so people start watching rugby (ugh!) more and there's even less money in the game. It's a far bigger issue than whether Kenny is up for it or who should play in nets tomorrow.

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Originally Posted by Kingdom

Ok, I'll qualify. I think it's akin to the Kelly/Given/Kiely situation. I don't think either needs a game for the sake of rotation or a game. Personally, I prefer Kelleher. I think he's the better keeper, has more of a presence (he's taller, but lighter), and is a better handler of the ball. But he's not playing games of any kind. It's the one position you need to be playing games. And bazunu is doing so, so deserves the jersey. If we want to give Kelleher a game, then let it be Qatar next month. Talbot/Travers/An Other know what they are (ball retrievers).

I don't think we need to see Kelleher in action now, because I think once he's playing games (assume on loan as he isn't being let go by Liverpool) he'll be grand, and he'll assume the #1 jersey naturally. I actually don't think it's a big leap to see Kelleher starting for Liverpool by the start of the 2023/2024 season. Next year he'll go on loan for the full season, and there could be am market for becker at a Madrid, Barca or that ilk, with Liverpool utilising the funds elsewhere - but I digress.

The financial point you make is crucial. We're in that horrid cycle that we need tournament finals to boost the coffers, but to splash the cash with no guarantee or realistic guarantee of reaching a finals (given the playing resources) only pushes us further down that financial spiral. there was 21k reported to be there on Sat. Does that include the people (like me) who had to buy a second seat just to secure one ticket? I said it on the matchthread how disappointed I was with the general Irish football fan. This is the first Irish match we could attend in how long, and it doesn't sell out? My brother - god love him - got a ticket. He enjoys football, but he hasn't a clue, and has never been to any match in his life. took his son who wanted to know why doesn't the team get a score when the ball went over the bar! They shouldn't have been anywhere near getting a ticket for the Azeri game. So I would say that crowds of 15k are entirely plausible. But why should the FAI be reliant on home international gate receipts? there's a rake of countries in UEFA who get smaller crowds than us regularly and have better systems.

Sponsorship and attracting a top-tier sponsor is an issue it seems. Wonder would (and not exclusively financial related) the FAI going for a UEFA 21s tournament help both financially, and with a sponsor? If so then we should be working hammer and thongs at hosting the 2025 version, or at a minimum an all-island finals. That is a realistic option from what I can see. The criteria isn't as stringent as senior tournaments. And it would be much more attainable than the romantic world cup bid (which will go to South America I reckon).
Sorry for the tangent.

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the goalkeeping situation was easy... Play Randoph when fit. he was injured ok, but come on on this one he got it wrong Bazunu is not the answer yet, great craking goal but again an experience keeper would have tipped that over the bar..... bazunu has a tendency to be far from over the line he is very easy to get lobbed

Stephen Kenny may have just kept himself in a job to 2022.
The final thirty seconds of the interview I've just heard will probably sway anyone on the fence onto his side.

"that kind of near-sightedness does not create anything. you might beat teams that you should beat, but you'll never beat the teams you should be striving to beat"

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Originally Posted by Kingdom

Stephen Kenny may have just kept himself in a job to 2022.
The final thirty seconds of the interview I've just heard will probably sway anyone on the fence onto his side.

"that kind of near-sightedness does not create anything. you might beat teams that you should beat, but you'll never beat the teams you should be striving to beat"

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I think I might get that printed up and hang it in my toilet.

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Originally Posted by Kingdom

Stephen Kenny may have just kept himself in a job to 2022.
The final thirty seconds of the interview I've just heard will probably sway anyone on the fence onto his side.

"that kind of near-sightedness does not create anything. you might beat teams that you should beat, but you'll never beat the teams you should be striving to beat"

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Hmmmm you'd ask why can't you do both? I mean, lumping James McClean in, essentially for Omobamidele, is hardly far sightedness Stephen.

I'm getting a little frustrated by his talking out both sides of his mouth.

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Originally Posted by Bielsa´s irish

the goalkeeping situation was easy... Play Randoph when fit. he was injured ok, but come on on this one he got it wrong Bazunu is not the answer yet, great craking goal but again an experience keeper would have tipped that over the bar..... bazunu has a tendency to be far from over the line he is very easy to get lobbed

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Yeah, on viewing it again... that was saveable. And yes, he saved a penno from Ronaldo, but he also gave the penalty away. It's ok, he's a young player and has a lot of potential. But these matches aren't training matches.

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Can't help but note this was my reasoning for starting Kelleher tomorrow, which you pooh-poohed. :) And I can't ignore a pooh-pooh, you know. Otherwise the forum will be entirely disbanded - by pooh-pooh!

One aside from all this actually is that realistically we've seen for a long while that we're on the down. OK, Kenny may have accelerated that, but we are where we deserve. The FAI's financial position is...parlous. At what stage do the FAI get so desperate that the grasp the nettle and make real reform in the domestic structure? How long can a bankrupt FAI survive as, say, fourth seeds in front of crowds of 15k and no hope of a finals payday? I'm not seeing any particularly easy way out of all to be quite honest.

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"We are where we deserve to be." Exactly right. No point in people criticising Kenny when Trap, Mick, O'Neill and Keane couldn't get it done either (some success among them but never going to take a step up to the next level because of our style of play - hoofball, which is what most fans wanted to get away from). It starts with coaching, always has - always will. We apparently don't have the coaches in Ireland to teach technique - I have been hearing good things about our upcoming youngsters but the 64K questions are: Have these promising youngsters been thought how to create from the midfield and have they been thought how to make and score goals??

These problems have beset the national team for half a century but we don't address them, instead we persist with the same tried and failed methods.

Reading so many posts on here, and football in Ireland seems to begin and end with the senior national team. LOI fans with an axe to grind against non LOI fans who they deem too critical, and Liverpool/Man United fans baying for blood because there is no **** up on the continent at a major tournament on the horizon.

Personally, I fall between 2 stools, LOI match goer and follow a team across the water closely also. Having to preface my post with this information is pretty stupid but maybe it gives some context anyway.

My 2 cents are as follows:

We need to forget about qualifying for any major tournament for probably the next 8-12 years. Fans, the FAI etc.. may cry treason, but we need to stop tying all of our eggs up in one basket with the national team. I don't think Stephen Kenny is the standard of manager we should be looking to if we were hoping to be successful in the short or medium term, but thats neither here nor there. People's solution seems to be throwing a million euro at another semi big name, who will hopefully cobble together a squad who will provide a spirited effort and more than likely come up short.

If we are to move forward we simply need to look at the bigger picture for Irish football. Every ounce of investment/resources we have need to be funnelled into development at grass roots in this country. Very simplistic to say our league needs looking at, but if we are to have a model that is sustainable and under our own control then we need some creative solutions about how the game can be developed here properly. We simply need a functioning league where our best young talent play senior league football week in week out. We need to seek the investment to keep them in Ireland (rather than being shipped to England where we roll the dice and hope they develop them for us), but we also need to obviously make it a viable option financially. Private sector investment is the only way to go. Allow our league to become somewhat sustainable in time by attracting proper transfer fees for our best players because there is genuine perception that we develop some quality.

Challenges facing football in this country:

1. OTHER SPORTS- despite football having big participation levels, we are competing with GAA and Rugby when it comes to getting serious. Particularly GAA, I know its an old argument but a small country like ours will always struggle when a large % of the young male population are indoctrined to play from their early years. Its just a fact. Rugby has snatched some of these young lads with its ability to provide them with a professional career (and you could say the skillset is closer between GAA and Rugby), but you would be surprised with the change in participation level if there was an opportunity to make decent money playing pro football in this country (aspirational I know).

2. LACK OF FOOTBALL ECONOMY IN IRELAND- Strong argument that this is the case. The Rugby guys did it via the provincial system, so any move to have a proper paying pro-league here would possibly have to leave behind the current clubs, possibly focusing on major urban centres. Its not to everyone (the majorities) interest to see potential franchises set up, but there must be a compromise. There are too many clubs currently to sustain professional football to the required standard, and by that I mean a standard that could entice the best youth to stay here. This is why private sector investment is key, but who is willing to run at a substantial loss for a good few years?

3. NO JOINED UP THINKING- Getting everyone on the same page in Ireland re: football structures is a painful process. Everyone is looking after their own patch, so many chiefs in their own personal fiefdom, but when you step back, why in their right mind would they support shifting all power to a completely dysfunctional FAI?

4. THE LURE OF A BETTER PRODUCT ACROSS THE WATER- this one speaks for itself. And say whatever you like, majority of Irish supporters are consumers for whom football is akin to their favourite TV show. And saying such offends the hell out of them, particularly when stated by a self confessed LOI match goer. Fact of the matter is, these consumers are the ones we need to spend their money sustaining a football economy here.

5. GRANNY RULE DRY OUT- Any English born player worth his salt is not bothering his backside anymore to declare for us, better to get 1 English cap than 100 Irish, and fair enough we may say. I'm on the fence either way, can recognise the benefit of having a quality UK born player who adds to our ranks, but also take pride in seeing what it means to some of the irish born lads pulling on the green shirt. Point being, these guys are kind of important to our development until such a time as we can start producing a surplus of quality international players ourselves, here in Ireland.

But I digress, in terms of Stephen Kenny, its neither here nor there as to whether he stays or goes. Makes very little difference unless we are tackling the bigger issues facing Irish football, things like contact hours the best young players get in this country (which is a disgrace by the way). But these smaller issues at lower levels (and there are enough of them to add up to huge issues for the game further down the line) are not sexy enough, nor would your casual fan give a flying f*ck when he just wants to book his flight to Euro 2024 so he can take videos of himself drinking cans in some town square where the game is an afterthought.

S.K.

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"If you take the four matches that people are talking about in the campaign. In the games against Serbia and Portugal away, they are probably two of our best performances away from home in the last decade, without question."

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2011-09-06 Russia 0, Ireland 0
2011-11-11 Estonia 0, Ireland 4 (playoff)
2013-03-22 Sweden 0, Ireland 0
2014-10-14 Germany 1, Ireland 1
2015-11-16 Bosnia 1, Ireland 1 (playoff)
2016-11-12 Austria 0, Ireland 1
2017-10-09 Wales 0, Ireland 1 (eliminated Wales)
2019-06-07 Denmark 1, Ireland 1

I'll have whatever S.K. is having

He said performances, not results.

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Originally Posted by Stephen Kenny

you'll never beat the teams you should be striving to beat

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Not teams like Luxembourg and Azerbaijan, no?

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Originally Posted by McDee

He said performances, not results.

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So 27% possession and zero points against Portugal is better than 35% possession and a point against the newly crowned world champions Germany?

This Barca style high pressing goal against Wales with dummy stepover is no good?