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Originally Posted by Geysir
So it would make no difference to those NI unionist RU fans that you know, if the IRFU used AnbF along with Ireland's Call, for the away game anthems?
No, or at least only very marginally. That is, they're already irritated by AnbF playing in Dublin. They'd only be a bit more irritated if it played in France or South Africa too.
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That the issue is more with Ireland's Call not being a specific sport anthem for NI? or just use Ireland's Call exclusively home and away?
The latter.
As you know, I prefer cricket where the playing of anthems isn't an issue. But if we were to have them, I'd prefer something neutral that wasn't the national anthem of either of the two countries represented. The whole point being that the joint team represents two separate countries, not the batsmen running out to one tune and the bowlers to another.
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Originally Posted by French Toasht
I think supporting NI is the anathema of what Irish identity is
Northern Ireland (and its football team, and their supporters) are 100% Irish, just like the South's equivalents. Anathema doesn't mean opposite, by the way, and inapproriate here even if you mean that all NI fans by definition hate a Republic of Irish identity. They don't, any more than all RoI fans hate an English identity or whatever.
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Originally Posted by Predator
You don't care if the NI team becomes more broadly representative of the people of NI
Do you actually read what others write? I made clear my support for extending the base of NI fans, while accepting that some groups are obviously more likely to be convinced than others.
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Is a national team supposed to be representative of its fans only, or the football fans of the nation/region/statelet it is named after?
The former, of course. It'd be a bit silly if it set out to represent Portuguese or Latvian football fans. They- like you- already support other teams. Which- to repeat- doesn't exclude them or anyone else from becoming NI fans.
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In a place like NI, you'd think the IFA would attempt to bridge division, rather than reaffirm it
They have tried, and been quite successful. Not Brazil on this forum/ thread has been personally involved in many of their initiatives and will be glad to supply details, if you're interested in reading them.
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The IFA cares about those who wanted a United Ireland yesterday when they decide to leave NI for a team more representative of them
I've suggested repeatedly how I'd prefer they tackled this issue. By accepting that many players, like fans, from NI will identify with the South and want to play for its teams. And by trying to persuade those who have chosen to play for NI teams to remain available for them. Ideally as part of a bilateral deal with the FAI where they don't sleect each other's adult players.
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As the governing body for football in Northern Ireland, they have a duty to all football fans/players in the area. not just those who are content with the status quo
As an FA organising international football, their priority is obviously fans of that team first, potential fans second. Not all lof the first group (including me) are happy with the Status quo, as should be obvious.
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It's a very insular attitude to suggest that the IFA should effectively only care what unionists think
I didn't suggest that, rather that there were priorities. And let's be honest, people who aren't realistically going to become fans aren't the top priority. Which isn't to deny that, like any public organisation, the IFA should be listening to constructive criticism from any source.
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Why would opinion polls need to be filtered?
Standard public opinion surveys interview about 1,000 people. But not just the first 1,000 you meet down the street. You normally need 50% women, 15% over 65, 7% ethnic minority and so on.
A survey of IFA block bookers doesn't need to that. It just, er, asks all the block bookers. So it's both easier and more comprehensive.
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Would their opinions be as valid to the IFA as that of NI fans? If not, why not?
All opinions are valid, and- as I say earlier in this post- the IFA should listen to any constructive criticism. The opinions of anyone realistically unlikely to become a NI fan aren't invalid, just less likely to be relevant.
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I just think they should attempt to reach out to the entirety of NI, including the "irredeemably biased", if they're ever to be taken even a wee bit seriously by that section of society
Something of a roundabout argument, this. They'd be more likely to reach out as you say if the irredeemably biased took them even a wee bit seriously (ie, weren't so irredeemably biased...)
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To suggest that only current NI fans should have a say is remarkably blinkered
I suggested pretty much the exact opposite. Do you have any other straw man arguments for us?
[quote]I don't think it's particularly unreasonable to expect those who govern the game in NI to attempt to be inclusive of as many football fans in NI as they can
It's not unreasonable, just not a high priority in the way you're describing it. The IFA's role is to run football- and specifically in this argument, an international side. Not to commission sociological research.
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Originally Posted by I am the Fly
One of the more ridiculous arguments offered against the proposition for change on OWC was that "it wouldn't make a blind bit of difference to those who already support the Republic (or 'beggars' - to use OWC terminology), so what's the point?".....or words to that effect.
Answer - It's to try and secure more support from future generations of football fans in NI
While that OWC argument is a bit crude, your reply is simplistic. Potential future NI fans from a nationalist background (PoFNIFFAN-B, for short) are just as likely to be affected in their choice of team by factors other than what's played at Windsor, don't ye think? You know, like what their parents/ teachers/ the Legion of Mary* tell them...
* I'm an ex-member. Long story...
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Originally Posted by Danny Invincilble
How would a player poll sound?
Like most other opinions offered by professional footbalers, I imagine. Bland and uncontroversial to the mainstream media, often crass and selfish in private (or on social media, which many of them seem to think IS private).
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Originally Posted by Gastric
NB's comment of a few pages ago that essentially he would be supporting the other three teams in Ireland's group shows the feeling among Unionist supporters. They dislike everything we stand for and as another poster mentioned he is quite moderate in his views
All NB's comment illustrates is that NI fans tend to hope their main rivals lose. We're little different from RoI fans in that respect (or those of Scotland, England etc.) So NB's moderate, articulate fans on here aren't the issue, are they? He's just doing what football fans do.
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The peace walls which separate communities would have to come down before I would believe real progress had been made in NI...it will take centuries for real reconciliation to occur. Until then, many young NI players will continue to look South for acknowledgement and acceptance
Point taken about the peace walls. There was an item on BBC Hearts and Minds show this week about them, set in my old manor around Edlingham Street in north Belfast.
That said, we have undeniably progressed from 30 years of the systematic murder of more than 3,000 people. And it's a bit of a leap to suggest that young footballers choose one of their eligible teams to play for because of centuries of mistrust. They're just playing for a football team, like.
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Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
I think yous are selling yourselves short. Look at the team of the mid-80s - Northern Ireland can have an inclusive side that all communities support but in the absence of a great team I think you need to be more creative
NI nationalists supported the local side in the 80s not just because it was better than the RoI for six or seven years, but also because it played more serious games (eg in the British Home Internationals), the game in the South was underdeveloped and so on. All this despite violence and sectarian mistrust that was far worse than now.
On field, things have changed a lot. The South's team are unlikely to finish a qualifying campaign with one point, like they did when I was a kid, for example.
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Like I said, I have no problem with a Northern Ireland team that values its British identity, but I don't think it will ever expand beyond that
Maybe it doesn't want to. Not all football teams (nor their parent countries) aspire to expand into (ie, take over) others' support...;)
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But surely you understand that other people find GSTQ more objectionable than you do?
Of course, although in large part that reflects their determination to be offended. Without wanting to labor the point, there's a limit to how far you can mollify them. And if you think about it, as someone who's always opposed the monarchy I'm just as likely to be irritated by its symbolism as some nationalist footballer. Whether inside Windsor Park or well beyond. I mean, living in Britain I've had to put up with it for most of my life.
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They don't want to make a symbolic gesture, though, and I don't think anyone's really asking for it. As far as I know, AnabhF has to be played at any engagement the President attends anyway
I explained that many of their fans in NI were asking for it. Anyway, the problem would be easily solved. The pres could waive the need to play it, or just stay away.
