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Originally Posted by
Gather round
All NI-born (players) are Irish. I'm 100% Irish, just like you.
Good man, delighted to have you on side. ;)
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There are plenty of dubious aspects about its application, and others worthy of debate, maybe elsewhere. Just to repeat a couple briefly- it looks odd that the Republic will happily offer citizenship to pretty much everyone in NI, but won't automatically do so for everyone born in the South. As confirmed by nearly 80% in a recent constitutional referendum.
Are you sure? I think you're mistaken or else my understanding of the application of Irish citizenship law throughout the whole island is incorrect. To the best of my knowledge, however, it makes no distinction regarding place of birth on the island in terms of accessibility, entitlement or right. The amendment you mention also applied to those born in the north; the effect of the amendment was to prospectively restrict the constitutional right to citizenship by birth to those who are born on the island of Ireland to at least one parent who is (or is someone entitled to be) an Irish citizen. After all, the need to tighten up the "loophole" derived from the Chen case; when a foreign national gave birth to a child in Belfast and was thereby able to claim residency rights in the UK as the mother of a child in possession of Irish/EU citizenship.
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Many of the people affected (ie, those born to non-nationals in the Republic, and the parents) will likely be refugees, or unable to return to their own countries for economic or other reasons, and thus to qualify for passports there. Which must create the real risk that they'll be stateless.
I haven't had a look at the relevant legislation in a while, but I'm pretty sure it does include a provision conferring citizenship (or allowing for the the possibility of such) onto those born in Ireland to foreign nationals who would otherwise be stateless, presumably by virtue of circumstances beyond their control or whatever other factors might restrict them from claiming a citizenship they might normally be entitled to. In such an instance, Irish citizenship can be conferred by the Minister for Justice, or possibly it has automatic application from birth; not completely certain. Anyhow, I believe the relevant legislation conforms with a 1954 UN convention relating to stateless person. One thing I know for certain, however, is that there's no legal vacuum there. I hope that soothes any anxiety. ;-)
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As for the irredentism (although I think the name's overblown), it's still there. Every political institution in the South has reuniting Ireland as a major theoretical objective, even if we all know you won't see them for dust if it ever becomes even a remote posibility in practice.
Pretty much every act and declaration by the British government in the recent contemporary past, bar voluntarily relinquishing the union with Northern Ireland, has more or less vindicated the notion that a united Ireland is a perfectly legitimate aspiration. Odd considering Northern Ireland's supposed integral part of the UK?... Northern Ireland certainly is no longer considered an intrinsic constituent part of the UK like, say, England or Scotland are - if it ever was at all, always having been a bit of a constitutional anomaly within the UK - and a legal pathway is in place for its departing from the union. If the UK felt this so-called Irish irredentism was completely and unquestionably illegitimate, the notion alone of Northern Ireland's departure from the union wouldn't be so seriously entertained.
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This is a bit over the top, Danny. Wanting guys from Derry or Newry to play for NI doesn't quite equate to exclude dsisenters, deny their nationalism or whatever.
I don't know. I mean, telling an Irish national that he shouldn't be allowed to represent his country in the sporting sphere is kind of denying him his national identity. I'm really not trying to sensationalise anything here. It's quite simple to see the implications of a desire to restrict his right.
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Has FHTB banned you then? Look, we feel your pain, but it isn't the end of the World. Just re-register. Ardee Bhoy will lend you one of his numerous aliases. Just remember to use the phrases 'paranoid planters' and 'medieval theme park' in every post and you'll be fine.
Hehe, I can't remember which thick buffoon it was banned me last time, although I have been banned on two occasions, supposedly for using threatening and abusive language under a previous third account - of which I have no recollection whatsoever of ever creating or using - or something. I never quite got an answer as to when this occurred or what it involved exactly. Anyway, I've gotten over that and try to remind myself that I'd only be wasting my time trying to spell a few things out there anyway. I do find it a bit frustrating, mind you, to see such unmitigated rubbish, ignorance and misinformation not merely spouted by the likes of 'fhtb' about things I care about, but also applauded and defended so vehemently by others even less knowledgeable than he, God help them. Nevertheless, I appreciate your sympathy. ;)
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It doesn't really matter whether there are two million or 20 million in NI, if the Republic generally doesn't give them (including me, potentially) the vote, social services and the like, its costs are negligible.
If I wanted to be picky, I could point out that Irish nationality entitles those living outside the state in possession of it to an Irish passport - and those rights that come with possessing a passport - as well as diplomatic support from Irish embassies or consulates abroad. So, something of substance at least beyond symbolic recognition.
As for the Rowan piece posted by 'The Fly', I appreciate the effort of going to the bother of typing it up, but it really is quite a poor article. 'Gather round' has offered a good dissection of it above. Personally, I think the least Rowan could have done, if he was going to do an article on the CAS case, would have been to actually quote the relevant statute correctly instead of, OWC-style, completely misrepresenting what it states. Then he might be able to even try and understand its implications. And "Gibsongate"?! Good Lord, where the hell did that obscenity originate? Thankfully, I've never heard anyone refer to it as that. Ever.
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Originally Posted by
Charlie Darwin
Perhaps they do, but everyone who knows the definition of the word "gerrymandered" knows that they'd be wrong.
If the border had been gerrymandered, they would have given over more territory to the Free State.
edit: well strictly speaking gerrymandering doesn't apply at all to national borders but you get the gist of it
Beyond the morality of the partition of Ireland, I think it's clear that, while 'ArdeeBhoy' might be using "gerrymandering" in a technically incorrect context, he's treating it as being synonymous with the idea of manufacturing a state - like how an electoral boundary might be manipulated to favour a certain group over another - as big as it possibly could have been while at the same time ensuring a secure population bias in favour of as many Irish unionists as possible for the foreseeable future. Any bigger and the population balance would have been tipped in favour of nationalists/Catholics; any smaller and it would have struggled to sustain itself and left a lot more disgruntled unionists than a few thousand Protestant landowner's in east Donegal. I don't think that is such a controversial idea.
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Originally Posted by
Predator
Ha, indeed! Let's completely ignore what the relevant statute says in favour of Worthington's personal vision of "common sense"... :clown:
