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Am I the only one that thinks this has been a terrible draw for fans. Trips to Norway and Sweden are going to cost an absolute bomb for fans. Belgium has great beer at least.
No glamour tie, no fine weather destination. I was disappointed they didn't get a trip to Villarreal or Cyprus. They'd be lovely in Autumn.
I'm with you Philosophizer. Ahead of the draw I was looking at the potential draws I'd want if it was us and only Gent was in that selection and there were plenty more ahead of them. Easy enough to get to for the most part, but no real glamour tie and not exactly winnable ties either
The trip to Belgium is the only one that will draw a huge away support I’d say. They have a nice stadium in Gent these days , the ground I visited in 2002 in the intertoto cup was nothing special. They have gone up in the world since.Quote:
Originally Posted by Philosophizer
Definitely all Tallaght fixtures those. Lansdowne would be wasted on them.
It's a bit samey for sure, and with no real glamour tie as you say. Gent are a decent team and should have no trouble with Rovers, but it's not quite the same as Fiorentina or Villarreal.Quote:
Originally Posted by Philosophizer
Was in Molde when we played there in 2017 and the area is nice (Atlantic Road and Trollstigen nearby) but it's just an expensive and small town. Stockholm is maybe a bigger version of the same thing. If it was me, I'd have liked someone like Pyunik or Ballkani in there for something a bit different.
On the pitch, Rovers need to sort out their away form if they've to have any chance.
What are you smoking??Quote:
Originally Posted by 2 Year Contract
Tough group to get points from, but travel wise it's not too bad. Would have preferred balkani or rfs as 4th seeds but not to be
Have fond memories of Rovers away against Djurgarden all those years ago.
Been to Sweden twice with Pats and didn’t find it the most exciting part of the world. The culture across Scandinavia is similar enough. There wasn’t much between Sweden , Denmark and Iceland on my Pats travels over the years.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
If Rovers have hopes of progressing then perhaps this is a decent group. They didn't get any obvious winnable ties but you could imagine these teams taking points off each other. Molde probably arent the strongest of the top seeds. There's a chance that something like 9 or 10 points might be enough to get through.
Rovers would need to step up a significant gear from their performance in the qualifiers though.
Tough group for Rovers really,will need some big performances in Tallaght to avoid finishing bottom I think….
It's not a dreadful draw, and it's not a great draw. There's some winnable ties, and there's some nice enough places to visit. Costly enough getting to Sweden and Norway though, expect about €500 for a return flight to either. Should get a good crowd travelling to Ghent though, cheap enough to get to.
It'll be a real test of where they are at in terms of European levels though. Belgian league is currently 10th, Norway 12th and Sweden 23rd, while LOI is in 36th in the rankings.
Djurgaden currently 3rd in Allsvenskan with an impressive defensive record this year. Molde five points clear at the top of Eliteserien, while Gent have had a mixed start to their season with two wins and two draws in their opening four games.
A lot will depend on Rovers approach to games and playing it smart. There's no reason they can't pick up a win or two and a couple of draws and hope to sneak through in second place, but it would take a huge effort to get that far
This is the group stages we’re talking about. Granted Genk should probably win the group but there was far better pot 1 sides than them. After that you’ve got Molde and Djurgarden, both of which are good sides no doubt but both are below the standard of Ludogorets and Ferencvaros so points are definitely obtainable. Out of all the pot 3 teams, rovers group is the most favourable on the pitch.Quote:
Originally Posted by placid casual
Then again if you don’t rate your team's chances fair enough, I’m not too pushed in convincing you
Do you mean second seeds?Quote:
Originally Posted by El-Pietro
They were placed second among the second seeds, but yeah, they and Slovan would have been the two you'd have been hoping for I guess.
Very disappointing not to draw RFS, talk about being handed a free €1,000,000 based on what i saw last night against Linfield (highlights).
Still no complaints, hopefully we start with a home match against Molde or Djurgarden where we have a shot at 3 points and a good start, i think Gent will be too strong for us.
Gent beaten home and away 2 nil by Omonia, so not sure how strong they are to be honest.
Molde lost a couple of their games during qualifying but also had some big wins in the other leg of ties. They can win away from home too.
Djurgarden looked good in qualifying. Won 5 of 6 and only lost away to APOEL last night. They did play teams in pre-season in two of those rounds. Might be a small factor.
Rovers best bet for points is Tallaght of course and early in the group. On their day they can be a match for all 3 at home. Away from home is a different story.
My prediction is 4th in the group but they won’t finish with zero points. There is a win or a couple of draws in there somewhere.
It's one of those weird draws where it would be a disappointment if they get no points but nobody would be hugely surprised. But, then you think a win at home in the first game, confidence and momentum build and they nick a point away the next game and suddenly the thinking will be is there 8 or 10 points there to be won.
Looking at the draw as a whole, i cant see a better group to be in unless its just to be a group with an RFS. There are some real groups of death there considering how there could have been some England like strolls in the park combinations possible.Quote:
Originally Posted by placid casual
Basel, Slovan and Pyunik is probably a bit better too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nesta99
Rovers have beaten Slovan at home recently, and even Basel's form in the qualifiers has been suspect (including a 1-1 draw away to Crusaders, albeit 2-0 up from the home leg)
It's a middling enough group. It kind of feels like a group of three second seeds plus Rovers
This group and the one Zalgiris ended up in are two of the best groups for points as a 3rd seed.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
There's a lot more ways the draw could have been a lot worse but only a few it could have been better. Rovers could count themselves lucky enough up to now in the draws, getting Hibs and Shkupi so all in can't feel hard done by.
They are the weakest side in the group but will have to expect to pick up some points at home. Since it's an even group there's a chance 6/7 points would be enough to qualify.
That sounds a bit unlikely doesn't it?Quote:
Originally Posted by yurt
6/7 points in second place means one more defeat than victory (1-3-2 or 2-1-3), which means the group winners have to get at least three more wins than defeats (3-3-0, say). But that requires a clear top seed, and I don't think Gent are them.
7 got through one ECL group last year, and 8 through two more, while all the others needed at least 10 points. One team (Rangers, strangely) got through the EL groups with 8 points, and Benfica/Atlético got through the CL groups with 8/7 points, but in the CL there's definitely clear top seeds (Bayern/Liverpool won all their group games)
I think another way of looking at the group is that Djurgarden, Molde and Gent will all fancy their chances of winning the group, and will think that starts with six points against Rovers. A tight group does open things up, but also puts pressure on every game.
Genk seems to be the fans firm favourite should get a few hundred traveling to that, mmmmmm belgian soup.
Lots of talk about whether it's a good group or not, but it all depends on what your definition of good is.
Personally I'm thinking of going to the away games so would have loved a glamour tie somewhere warm like Fiorentina/Villareal. And maybe a European city trip like Belgrade/Prague/Koln and then a very winnable tie like RFS.
And all of those trips would be very affordable.
By my metrics, it's been a brutal draw.
But if you're thinking about it purely for football reasons it's probably an ok group.
That would be my take on it and hence a good start with a home win would really put the cat among the pigeons.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
As passinginterest said above zero points wouldn't be a surprise but 6 or 7 isn't impossible either.
Djurgardens beat Apoel Nicosia 3 nil at home and then lost 3 to 2 in the return leg in Cyprus....pretty impressive but if Rovers can get Jack fit i wouldnt put it past us to get a few decent results
I hope Rovers fans don’t end up in Genk anyway!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingswood Rover
Not a great draw. No really winnable tie and it will probably be tight until the end so nobody will take their foot off the gas. Expensive away trips although I like Stockholm and we owe Djurgardens.
But hey, we are in the groups and will hopefully have Jack and Burke fully fit for the adventure. A home win and draw would be lovely. Bring it on.
Talk of finishing 2nd in this group is beyond fanciful, that being said I'd be disappointed if Rovers finished up with zero points. I think a win and a draw is certainly achievable with anything above that a really impressive return.
Now to go win the double.
Yeah, like it is very unlikely for Rovers to qualify. The point I was trying to make is that their excellent home form alone is something which could possibly be enough to see them advance. But it is unlikely.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
Don't stop believing yurt. All those teams are going to draw with each other home and away while we will win all our home ties. We will get hammered away by a combined total of 12 goals but top the group on 9 points with everyone else on 7. Simples.Quote:
Originally Posted by yurt
Here's the highlights from Linfield v RFS last night actually. The two-on-the-keeper chance is at 0:18, and was immediately followed by an RFS one-on-one which isn't shown. Then the 4-on-1 miss which led to the goal is at 2:20
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dwr4JPDESU8
not to make the comparison with Dundalk but ifQuote:
Originally Posted by sbgawa
St. Petersbourg/AZ = Ghent/Molde
Tel Aviv = Djurgardens
I dont think people were expecting Dundalk to get much from that group either and were obv chuffed with the 4 plus staying relatively competitive even against St Petersbourg. It seems like 3-4 points should be similarly be a realistic a target.
Kenny's Dundalk picked up a creditable 4 points in 2016. While difficult, 8 points is an achievable ambitious target.
They wouldn't be the first ones ending up in the wrong place after a Genk/Gent confusion.Quote:
Originally Posted by joey B
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/soc...ixup-1.4061458
Going in to the last game against Tel-Aviv we still had a chance of going through, indeed a spectacular kilduff missed sitter if put away and go 1-2 up (and another late miss also) would have would have had us in the top 2.Quote:
Originally Posted by legendz
It would have been bitterly disappointing in the end as over the last few minutes events in the other game put a last 32 beyond us. The preventable goals at home to Zenit home, the very early one v AZ where they caught us cold and while we had them pinned back couldnt get a result. Ifs and buts! That was a formidable group and we didnt look out of our depth and its certainly possible for Rovers to pick up points, 4 is doable and after that ye never know.
booboo due to intense excitementQuote:
Originally Posted by joey B
Gent 27.500Quote:
Originally Posted by Nesta99
Ludogorets Razgrad 23.000
Molde 19.000
Ferencváros 15.500
Shamrock Rovers 7.000
Djurgårdens IF 4.575
Dundalk 2016 were a formidable group alright. 4 points is doable as you say. Rovers momentum with their home form might eek out a few more points. Going into the group stage in Pot 3, 4th will be a harsh failure of sorts, 3rd par for the course and an unexpected qualification from the group a great success.
3rd par for the course? I wouldn't be too fooled by Djurgs coefficient legendz. We aren't the 3rd strongest team in that group. They are 3rd in the Swedish league after 19 games.Quote:
Originally Posted by legendz
Would give us a chance at home against them all the same.
They won’t fear any of those sides and why should they. Good teams sure but not exactly power houses of European Football.
Two of the sides are in title contention and will be in the business end of their leagues during the period of the 6 matches. Will be interesting to see how that might impact on performances. Rovers will coast to the league so that is not going to be an issue for them.
Someone else made a good point that the other 3 teams most likely will take points off each other, that could create its own pressure to take maximum points in the games with Rovers.
Travel and heat will not be a factor, games will be at a packed Tallaght and not the Aviva where they are used to winning. Also some key players should be returning from injury. All of these variables should make this group quite interesting. A home game first, would be a good one for the computer to spit out.
Dundalk had the lowest ranking in 2016 EL groups with being the side with the lowest co-efficient to progress from qr1 to groups. So it both backs your point that you cant always use a low co-efficient as a gauge, but also that Rovers should be targeting wins in genuine belief that they an pick up points.Quote:
Originally Posted by ontheotherhand
I think we will pick up points but we will be underdogs in every game no matter what the coefficients say was my point. Dundalk had the best run in Irish history and ended up in 4th. Hopefully Djurgs do the same from their own lowly coefficient standing!Quote:
Originally Posted by Nesta99
We will probably finish in 4th as well but hopefully we can match the 4 points dundalk picked up if we catch a few teams early doors when they aren't expecting much of a challenge. A home tie first would be ideal although maybe we want to lull them all into a false sense of security by getting hammered away in the first game....then release Jack and Burke on then in Tallaght.
Zenit were 2/32, AZ 9/32 and Dundalk 32/32 in 2016. Some difficult group at time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nesta99
Rovers are 22/32. Djurgs are 29/32. Coefficients and rankings aren't the full story granted.
A good fixture draw for Rovers could be to have Gent and Molde away in the second half of the fixtures, considering their poor away form against higher ranked opponents. Dundalk notably started the group with a 1-1 draw away to AZ. A Rovers result like that would be massive.
Bradley has been talking the talk of targeting the knockout stage, sensibly saying it before the draw.
Many have seen the group stage as an achievable target. Pot 3 was a good reflection of recent European form. Just as group stage was seen as achievable, 3rd should be seen as achievable too, while accepting the difficulty. Rovers have a good opportunity to set a new high bar for achievement.
The composition of the group is an interesting one. Offers potential while being fraught with danger. Something LoI sides are familiar with from qualifying rounds. Rovers 4 European ties so far have them well versed going into the group stage. Previous group stage qualification led to more difficult challenges. Rovers draw today is resulting in a similar enough challenge to what they've come up against already.