Sorry I taught you could back up your own arguments and dont need someone else to do them for youQuote:
Originally Posted by Blanchflower
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Sorry I taught you could back up your own arguments and dont need someone else to do them for youQuote:
Originally Posted by Blanchflower
And the Union Jack doesnt imply Ireland to be a colony, nor wales nor Scotland. if they were including colonies there'd be some references to the commonwealth in there, no?Quote:
Originally Posted by lopez
This may be news to you, but the Orange has little to do with religion and a lot to do with Willhem of Orange. On our flag, it represents that you can be both Irish and British.Quote:
The Orange (not Gold or Yellow, muppetts) represents the Protestant tradition. Perhaps our non-Orange friends find this offensive, but it means that you can be Irish and not be Catholic.
Which ones? I'm sure most, if not all, would be happy if there were an even-handed policy. I certainly would.Quote:
Originally Posted by lopez
I'm sure many would be very happy to have a NI rugby team, but there isn't one and isn't likely ever to be one. Is it too much to ask for an even-handed approach in respect of flags and anthems? Why such hostility towards such a simple request?Quote:
If they don't like it, go set up your own 6C side with GSTQ and the butchers apron. Not unreasonable suggestion. You have your own 6C football side.
Indeed: all-Ireland.Quote:
It is a Ireland team.
Nor would I. Who's suggesting that they should?Quote:
I don't expect England to stand to the anthems of Ireland, India, Pakistan, Jamaica etc. in sport.
No idea. Who's suggesting that it should?Quote:
Why should the Irish rugby team do likewise.
Not sure what point you're trying to make. People aren't objecting to the Soldier's Song as a song - it's the fact that the ROI anthem is being used for an all-Ireland team. It doesn't matter what song is used as the anthem.Quote:
While I agree the SS would have to go in an all-Ireland state, if Ireland's call was made the Irish national anthem tomorrow you'd still get people saying it doesn't represent me. Personally, if you're not happy, set up your own 6C team.
Why should rugby people from NI have to choose between a biased set-up in respect of flags and anthems and setting up their own team? Wouldn't it be fairer and more reasonable to have an even-handed or neutral set-up?
So you're saying NI can have any anthem it likes, as long as its not GSTQ? Why's that?Quote:
If NI had its own anthem that's fine. The Sash is the most extreme one you could go for, but I'd agree to it.
I'd love to know. Presumably because of prejudice on the part of the IRFU?Quote:
Presumably the NI flag would do, although why not have both at every game.
So if England stopped using GSTQ (and used, say, Jerusalem instead), you would be happy with GSTQ?Quote:
But seriously, the same one as England?
If you agree that it is a disgrace, why are you telling NI rugby fans to f*ck off and set up their own team if they also object to it. That makes no sense.Quote:
BTW, the IRFU treating a game in Belfast as an away game is a disgrace.
Not true. GSTQ used to be used up until the 1950s.Quote:
Outside of Dublin, there has been no anthem since partition sanctioned by the IRFU (it seems that other unions have had their own idea on the matter).
What about matches in Limerick?
Yanks, I can believe. But not Welsh. Didn't the IRFU point this out to them?Quote:
Not really. Some people actually believe Ireland is still part of the union.
:D I like Sean Hughes.Quote:
This is actually not me being funny. I know someone who tried discussing the troops on the streets of Dublin a decade ago (and he wasn't a Yank trying to give me money 'for the boys' (Quote Sean Hughes is similar situation: 'But I don't have any children))
Depends what you mean by nationality. You seem to be confusing it with citizenship. Regardless, people's Englishness, Irishness, Scottishness or Welshness is not diminished by their Britishness. Your opinion is irrelevant.Quote:
Again I'm talking about nationality, the highest measurement of identity in most peoples views (passports are not handed out on musical or fashon tastes). I know where you are from, and the majority of that place don't want it to be British.
This doesn't appear to make grammatical sense.Quote:
Two anthems entails an identity is not replaced by some Disneyesque (which is most people's problem with IC) and rather supplemented by another.
I don't see how IC dilutes anyone's identity. Such a claim seems to me like a strange OTT reaction. Why would anyone make their identity dependent on an anthem (of any kind)?
I don't care whether we have 2 anthems or 1 neutral anthem, as long as there is mutual respect and even-handedness.Quote:
The Irish rugby team may not encompass two sovereign states, but it does the two largest - and more importantly indigenous - nationalities in Ireland (no we can't have the Polish, Chinese and Lithuanian anthems as well). If we can have an anthem that is Irish and unionist (a NI anthem), then play that with the SS.
It doesn't "claim" to represent anything: it actually is the NI national team. Some people's "belief" that the SS is their anthem doesn't mean that it is the anthem of NI. It would be ludicrous to play the anthem of the ROI before a NI match!Quote:
It claims to represent a country with an indigenous minority who believe that the SS is their anthem.
I do want the IFA to be inclusive, and that includes adopting a NI anthem, not playing the Southern anthem as well as GSTQ. It's not the same to compare NI (one country) with the Ireland rugby team (representing two countries).Quote:
If you want the rugby team to be totally inclusive, then why not the IFA? Or is this your own 'f*ck off if you don't like it'.
The above comment would appear to be irrelevant in response to what I posted, i.e.Quote:
Basically f*ck off if you don't like what is played at WP. As I've said to NB, it's academical what you play at NI games now. Fans have long ago gone elsewhere. Now the footballers can too.
If Southerners object to the Northern anthem because they are not British, it is no more or no less stupid for Northerners to object to the Southern anthem because they are not Southern Irish. What some people "believe" about the Southern anthem is irrelevant.
My point remains.
Who is asking the IFA to "recognise the symbols of Irish nationalism" and why?Quote:
The IFA.
It is. It's the ROI team. Having fans or picking players from NI does not alter that.Quote:
It has players and fans from the 32C, so that is no longer the case.
To which arguments are you referring?Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibernian
I was asking questions of Gavin Zac, not putting forward an argument. Try reading the thread before posting.
Well if you read it properly you would have.Quote:
Originally Posted by Blanchflower
Not entirely true, it represnts the Catrholic and Protestant traditions on the island with the white signifying a truce between them. It was included to try and reconcile Irish Protestants with the independence movement. Independence in in this instance meaning indpedendent from Britain.Quote:
Originally Posted by GavinZac
How's that?Quote:
Originally Posted by lopez
I've never seen such a flag, nor do I see how it would be anything like the St Patrick's Cross.Quote:
Originally Posted by lopez
How would that stop them flying the NI flag?Quote:
Originally Posted by lopez
Sorry, that doesn't answer my question (which, I'll remind you, was: "to which arguments are you referring?"). Should you wish to engage properly in discussion, I will respond. Otherwise, I'll ignore you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibernian
Why would religion have anything to do with nationality?Quote:
Originally Posted by Drumcondra 69er
If you had looked at my first mail (which you did to some degree) you have have been able to reply.Quote:
Originally Posted by Blanchflower
Now I see you have very strong opinion about this topic and you cant seem to answer my question which is fair enough as I see from your other posts you do seem to get wound up about a bloody flag quite easily.
Ask the Israelis.Quote:
Originally Posted by GavinZac
It doesn't. That's the point. However, when the flag was originally designed in the 1840's relegion was very much part of one's identity on this island. The flag was to symbolise both of the main identities and peace between them within a soveriegn independent Ireland. It never really caught on pre 1916 as a symbol in any case.Quote:
Originally Posted by GavinZac
The point was to question Gavin Zac about his understanding of nationality/identity.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibernian
I recommend you read "How Israel lost" for a good explanation of how Israel is a secular state for people of "Hebrew" and Yiddish ethnicity, rather than of Jewish faith.Quote:
Originally Posted by Blanchflower
No the question was for you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Blanchflower
You cant answer fair enough.
Seems to me you still live in the 1920's and when you bring in stupid comments like the Middle East it just goes to show how sad you are.
It's all right, I believe you. It wasn't a serious comment in any case.Quote:
Originally Posted by GavinZac
And I have answered it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibernian
I did.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibernian
Why does it seem like that to you?Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibernian
Why do you think that?Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibernian
I could not be bothered this is joke right??Quote:
Originally Posted by Blanchflower
What has the colour Green got to do with Catholicism?.Quote:
Originally Posted by Drumcondra 69er
If the flag was designed with the guidelines you're suggesting there'd be Marian Blue or Papal Yellow in it.
The green is supposed to represent Irish Nationalism ...with no reference whatsoever to the religious affiliation, if any, of the Nationalist people.
You've been bothered up until now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibernian
No, it's not a joke.