Andy Reid(b 1982)

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Originally Posted by NeilMcD

To be fair Brady played a lot under Charlton and did he not play in every qualifier for Euro 88 and was injured for the tournament and he was injury prone by the time of the qualifiers for 1990. 2 out of Townsend and Whelan and McGrath was not a bad midfield for the majority of those qualifiers

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Brady was injured for Euro 88 (and also serving a two match ban). He wasn't fit for the 1990 qualifiers due to the knee injury he suffered at West Ham.

To be honest, while he had to sacrifice some of the flair under Jack he arguably played more effectively for us in the 88 qualifiers then he had for a good few years before that, he was generally quite poor from 82 till 86 and was regulalry slated by Dunphy and others on the box and in print. 86 to 88 was a bit of a renaissance for him despite his dislike of the style of play.

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

Was Townsend there then?

I remember his debut at Dalyer on a wet weeknight, against France. I think it was post Italia 90.

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Townsend was in the team in 1990 let alone the squad, sure he scored one of the pens against Romania!

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Originally Posted by NeilMcD

To be fair Brady played a lot under Charlton and did he not play in every qualifier for Euro 88 and was injured for the tournament and he was injury prone by the time of the qualifiers for 1990. 2 out of Townsend and Whelan and McGrath was not a bad midfield for the majority of those qualifiers

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Brady was superb v Bulgaria in October 87.

He never really recovered from the injury that cost him a place in Euro88 (he would have been suspended for the forst 2 games anyway). I think Hungary 89 in Budapest was the first time he wasn't picked. Stapleton was left out that night too. There was a lot of hype about not bringing him to the World Cup but it was the right decision. 2-3 years earlier and he'd have been one of the stars of the tournament. He retired in 1990 as well.

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

Was Townsend there then?

I remember his debut at Dalyer on a wet weeknight, against France. I think it was post Italia 90.

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It was in 1989.

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Originally Posted by NeilMcD

To be fair Brady played a lot under Charlton and did he not play in every qualifier for Euro 88 and was injured for the tournament and he was injury prone by the time of the qualifiers for 1990. 2 out of Townsend and Whelan and McGrath was not a bad midfield for the majority of those qualifiers

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True - Brady did figure for that first campaign but the fact remains that Charlton ceremonially finished Brady's International career against West Germany in 1989 by hauling him off the pitch after half an hour and sending out a message that Brady was finished.

In truth, we were being over-run and may have conceded again but there's a school of thought that it was a deliberate finishing of Brady as he just couldn't fit into the system of play.

Certainly not disputing the quality at Charltons disposal.

We did indeed have Townsend, Whelan and Mcgrath which would have been a great midfield if they were trusted to play a bit more!!

They spent a bit too much time watching the ball arc far and above their heads on route to the corner flag, to be fair.

Thanks. It was a deliberate mistake, just trying to disprove any suggestions that my memory for these things indicates obsessive behaviour.

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Originally Posted by Wolfie

True - Brady did figure for that first campaign but the fact remains that Charlton ceremonially finished Brady's International career against West Germany in 1989 by hauling him off the pitch after half an hour and sending out a message that Brady was finished.

In truth, we were being over-run and may have conceded again but there's a school of thought that it was a deliberate finishing of Brady as he just couldn't fit into the system of play.

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It was a friendly and he could have been left on until half-time although he clearly was not up to it that day. We could have lost the game in those 10 minutes or so which is why he was taken off.

I think Brady sent the message out himself but Charlton did dump one of our heroes. Unfortunately this happens all too often in football.

The calls from him to go to the World Cup were ridiculous though.

Townsend got a few full caps during the qualifiers for wc90
Liam recovered from the cruciate ligament injury in spring '89. Jack had selected Townsend ahead of him against Hungary. Liam only made 2 late sub appearances, I think.
Gspain is accurate enough about Liam losing a lot of his game after his injury.

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Originally Posted by gspain

It was a friendly and he could have been left on until half-time although he clearly was not up to it that day. We could have lost the game in those 10 minutes or so which is why he was taken off.

I think Brady sent the message out himself but Charlton did dump one of our heroes. Unfortunately this happens all too often in football.

The calls from him to go to the World Cup were ridiculous though.

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100% agree, there was a bit of the rent a mob re the calls for him to be included in the squad, he'd announced his retirement beofre that and then changed his mind which created some of the hype but I think it was just his desire to play in a World Cup that was behind that, it would have been crazy to include him in the squad. Stapleton was lucky to make that squad as well to be frank. ;)

Wasn't the Finland game for Brady's testimonial in May 1990 upgraded to a full international to give him one last cap?

There is not a lot of comparison between Brady and Andy Reid, if you are considering creative player sacrificed for system.
Brady was in an altogether different league to Andy Reid. The gulf is as wide as that between Glenn Whelan and Roy Keane.

Anyway, Brady played in all the Euro88 qualifiers and wasn't subbed once afair.

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Originally Posted by Drumcondra 69er

100% agree, there was a bit of the rent a mob re the calls for him to be included in the squad, he'd announced his retirement beofre that and then changed his mind which created some of the hype but I think it was just his desire to play in a World Cup that was behind that, it would have been crazy to include him in the squad. Stapleton was lucky to make that squad as well to be frank. ;)

Wasn't the Finland game for Brady's testimonial in May 1990 upgraded to a full international to give him one last cap?

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It was his last cap but I think it was always a full International. David O'Leary's testimonial v Hungary circa 89 is the disputed one. We didn't and don't consider it a full Internatio0nal but they do.

Agree re Frank Stapleton too. Great servant as well but was never going to play in Italy. He did score in the warmup match v Malta though.

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Originally Posted by gspain

It was his last cap but I think it was always a full International. David O'Leary's testimonial v Hungary circa 89 is the disputed one. We didn't and don't consider it a full Internatio0nal but they do.

Agree re Frank Stapleton too. Great servant as well but was never going to play in Italy. He did score in the warmup match v Malta though.

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Was sure Finland wasn't to be a full game but they changed their mind, may well be wrong though!

Yeah, Stapo scored in Malta alright and seemed to think that gave him the right to be first choice again! Jack went on record afterwards saying that it should really have been Stapleton rather then Waddock that was sacrificied but as he'd been such a good servant he deserved his place in the squad. Says when Frank spent the next month moping round the traning camp with a 'face like a smacked @rse' that he wished he hadn't bothered!

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Originally Posted by Drumcondra 69er

Brady was injured for Euro 88 (and also serving a two match ban). He wasn't fit for the 1990 qualifiers due to the knee injury he suffered at West Ham.

To be honest, while he had to sacrifice some of the flair under Jack he arguably played more effectively for us in the 88 qualifiers then he had for a good few years before that, he was generally quite poor from 82 till 86 and was regulalry slated by Dunphy and others on the box and in print. 86 to 88 was a bit of a renaissance for him despite his dislike of the style of play.

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Is that not what I said. Anyway the point I am making is that the comparisons of Brady and Reid are not true as Brady was never sacrificed for the system as he played in the system and as you say had a bit of a resurgence under Charlton.

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Originally Posted by NeilMcD

Is that not what I said. Anyway the point I am making is that the comparisons of Brady and Reid are not true as Brady was never sacrificed for the system as he played in the system and as you say had a bit of a resurgence under Charlton.

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It is what you said but you asked 'did he not play in every qualifier for Euro 88 and was injured for the tournament and he was injury prone by the time of the qualifiers for 1990'. I was just confirming that.

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Originally Posted by Wolfie

If there was a game where we had to force the issue and get Keane and Doyle played in - Reid could do a job from the left wing - with certain constraints placed upon him, I'm afraid.

I think Trapp's nightmare scenario is Reid risking passes and conceding possession repeatedly, thus putting us under extreme pressure. You lose the ball in International Football you may not get it back for 2 minutes - sometimes when you are picking it out from the back of your net.

The Jack Charlton / Liam Brady issue had similarities in relation to a clash between a certain players style and the teams rigid system.

As Brady himself once said in an interview "Well, you couldn't be over elaborate with the ball. Its when you risked a pass and lost it. That's when Jack blew his top".

The emergence of a solid, quality left full could herald a re-think as regards the left wing but its too risky at the moment.

Kilbane, as much admired and liked as he is, is on the way out and his best days are behind him. Reid and Kilbane on the left is a bit too fragile for my liking.

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Originally Posted by NeilMcD

Is that not what I said. Anyway the point I am making is that the comparisons of Brady and Reid are not true as Brady was never sacrificed for the system as he played in the system and as you say had a bit of a resurgence under Charlton.

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I wasn't making reference to a similarity in relation to an omission.

My reference was to a similarity in an individuals creative playing style which does not fit with the constraints of a teams system of play.

Brady had to alter his playing style in order to feature at all.

Some rare decent praise here for an Irishman, let alone Andy Reid:

http://www.football365.com/story/0,1...575437,00.html

Pulling all the strings again for Sunderland tonight, everything going through him including the creation of their 2 goals. He is going to make it very tough for Trap to leave him out of the next squad, probably the most in form Irish player apart from Shay Given in the last two weeks.

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Originally Posted by centre mid

Pulling all the strings again for Sunderland tonight, everything going through him including the creation of their 2 goals. He is going to make it very tough for Trap to leave him out of the next squad, probably the most in form Irish player apart from Shay Given in the last two weeks.

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I'd put Dunne up there too, with his 4 clean sheets from 4 games played.

assist for Sunderlands second tonight and heavily involved in their first.

WHat are the odds he is called up? 3-2? 2-1? 10-1?