Just saw what SK had to say about the game. We were class.
https://m.independent.ie/sport/socce...-40818739.html
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Just saw what SK had to say about the game. We were class.
https://m.independent.ie/sport/socce...-40818739.html
if we take it in terms of just viewing the qualifying campaign based on where we are in a group, is this the worst Irish team of all time? we are joint bottom of a qualifying group.
in my 40 yrs watching Ireland I cant remember us being bottom of a group before- anyone know if this is the 1st time?
It not Kennys primary role to speak publicly bout his teams but his speech has always been incoherent and babbling, showing a real sign of unstability.
He was kinda successful with bohs and very successful with dundalk, but died on his ar$e at Rovers, Dunfermline and to a lesser extent derry(i think).
just not good enough, and under any kind of pressure , even worse.
get rid.
****ing spoofer. Leave now.Quote:
Originally Posted by zero
He was a huge success at Derry, both stints. Should've won at least one league, maybe two, which is probably what you're getting at but guided the club's best modern seasons outside of the Jim McLaughlin-era. Him leaving (twice!) was a lot more damaging than anything that happened on the pitch.Quote:
Originally Posted by placid casual
He's also very thoughtful, and emotionally honest, in front of the media, albeit not the most charismatic or smooth talker - I think what you're seeing is someone trying not to fall into any traps and strike whatever he sees as the right tone rather than outright incoherence imo.
Yeah to use terms like incoherent (and actually to say he has always been like that) and talk of showing signs of instability about Kenny is laughable and way off the mark as regards the man and manager. That is regardless of anyones opinion on whether he should continue as Ireland manager or not.
He is held in the highest regard at Derry City and is by far the best LOI manager I have seen in my lifetime. It is not working out and is probably approaching the end but he should not be treated with outright disrespect as a manager in this country, because in terms of club football at the least he is the finest there has been for some time.
realistically as kerr said the Luxemburg result was the fate. Serbia with a draw but with the same results vs Luxemburg was the same. Ireland waited a draw a victory a defeat or draw vs Portugal and a victory yesterday. so 7 or 8 points and we got 1. nevertheless I wouldnt sack him, he must resign after the the end of campaign and work in a replacement.
The team improved a lot in certain areas but as your Richard Dunne said the improvement must be connected with points on the board, otherwise there is none.
A symbol of Kenny in his tenure is bad luck like your banshee folk personnage, when something could go wrong goes wrong . Key players out injuries etc etc.
I will keep him until the end to get the maximun of points and now there is nothing to get pressured from.. they should play with more freedom, one thing i didnt like is the lack of pressure from the 3 youth frontmen in the first 30 minutes, they are young work your socks off. as Stapleton and Aldridge did..
I don't want to be accused of winding anyone up, and I understand that this is a LOI fan forum, so I'm genuinely not trying to get a rise here. The standard of play in the LOI is terrible. I watched the best team in the league get outplayed over two legs a couple of weeks ago by a team by Estonia. One of the goals that the goalkeeper from Shamrock Rovers conceded would have him dropped from a recreational five-a-side team instantly. It was embarrassing to watch. The LOI is really holding the national team back because you have a bunch of fans that support these no-hoper clubs clinging onto a guy like Stephen Kenny who did well managing against a bunch of part-time players. The fully professional leagues are a huge step up.Quote:
Originally Posted by DCWA
Of course he doesn't have a great pool of players to pick from, but we have a group of players mostly playing in the English Championship, and a few in the Premier League, although I note that he somehow didn't even call up Ciaran Clark, who has over 200 Premier League appearances to his name and was fully fit and available for selection. We should be able to handle the likes of Azerbaijan handily. I get that his whole thing is taking us away from playing hoofball and keeping the ball on the ground, but at some point he has to admit that we just don't have the players for that style of football. As others have mentioned, at the international level, you adjust your style to fit the players available, not the other way around. Kenny's unwillingness to inability to change things up when they're clearly not working is why I'm calling for him to be sacked. Surely any reasonable person would expect him to change his ways or resign?
We don't have the players for hoofball either.Quote:
Originally Posted by Colbert Report
It worked (at times) under Trap because we had effective battering rams up front (Doyle, Walters) and our greatest ever poacher to feed off the chaos. We also had a cohort of wingers (Duff, McGeady, Hunt, Lawrence) who could get decent crosses in or win free-kicks.
It worked (at times) under MON because we had Walters and Daryl Murphy to bully defenders and create havoc, and the pace of Long and McClean to hit teams on the break. Along with Hoolahan to create things when we won the second ball in the opponent's half.
Who's our big, tough, alpha-male centre-forward now? James Collins?!
We have no goal-poacher. No #10. No really effective wide players. No set-piece experts. The idea that we're this big, strong aggressive side that can bully other teams is, quite frankly, laughable. Josh Cullen is our best #6, and he's 5'9".
I think you've got this idea in your head that the Continental sides are made up of lah-di-dah, wine-sniffing, midget dilettantes who can't handle the rough and tumble of our brave Warriors of Éireann. That's nonsense. The Azeri defenders were all big, strong lads who were well able for the direct game. Man-for-man, we are physically dwarfed by the Serbs, and we saw what happened in 2017 when we tried to hoof them into submission.
The only way I see us getting results with the pool of players we have available is to defend deep in numbers, then try to score off a quick counter-attack or a set piece off Shane Duffy's head. Yes, I know it is atrocious and boring to watch, but we must choose between that and losing to the likes of Luxembourg.
I'm a fan of one of those 'no-hoper clubs' and I absolutely love the league. I also think Kenny is failing miserably in his current role.Quote:
Originally Posted by Colbert Report
Don't worry about getting a rise though, sincerely. I truly believe you're the least knowledgeable poster I've ever seen on this forum with such a weird, reactive take on specific one off events that I doubt anybody with get particularly upset at your latest eh... insights.
I have been pro Kenny for quite a while and I'd rather he stayed in situ but he is remarkably inconsistent on a lot of fronts.
He gives with one hand by playing Bazunu and Idah and getting serious international experience into two young talented players who have the capacity to be fixtures in our side for 10 years. He takes away then by not starting Omobamidele and putting McClean in instead. I can't fathom that one.
I thought Hendrick did okay against Portugal. And he gets dropped for Molumby who hasn't much football played recently and probably since January. Again, I don't follow the thinking.
And then he whips Connolly at half time, which wasn't completely out of order but a little strange to do it so early, and brings in Horgan. Horgan has been okay for us against decent sides but I don't think he's going to turn a game on its head.
Another aspect that he seems to be unsure of is his formation. He told anyone that would listen he likes 4-3-3, didn't he? Or was it 4-2-3-1? That quickly changed now to wingbacks.
On most of the points above, I don't have a strong view either way but it feels like Kenny doesn't either. I thought the concept of Coleman moving into a three man defence sums that up for me. Kenny didn't know whether to go back to a 4 man defence or keep the wingbacks. So he just stuck a full back into the 3 as some sort of compromise for himself.
I admire a lot of what he does and at least most of what he does seems well intended. But he doesn't have the players or depth of players or volume of in form players to cover up for his mistakes. Effectively dropping Omobamidele, Hendrick and McGrath for McClean, Molumby and Parrott to facilitate a slight change in shape and account for the step down in quality of opposition isn't guaranteed to succeed because the lads coming in haven't been particularly good at this level under Kenny. So, even if the ideas had their merit, hoping that it works out doesn't really do the trick.
Why isn't Kenny getting hounded out of the job? Every single game he has a long list of excuses. He's only won one game. That was a friendly against Andorra. With mostly the same players, Mick McCarthy only lost 1 game and came very close to qualifying us for the euros. Now we're battling it out with Azerbaijan to see who comes last in our group. Luxembourg are miles ahead of us. Kenny has the worst managerial record in our history. He can barely put a coherent sentence together. He's damaging any emerging talent with these embarrassing performances. He's driving us so far back the rankings that it will take years to recover. His time in charge has been an unmitigated disaster.
Yet, he is getting far less criticism than previous managers. It's been obvious for a long time that Kenny is completely out of his depth. His pals in the media and others who backed him need to put their pride to one side and admit they got this wrong. Kenny is doing serious damage and most of all, he's giving validation to previous managers who decided we couldn't play a passing game. Kenny is driving us back to the long ball gameplan.
What a load of laughable horse€hit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Colbert Report
If you fell into a barrel of clues, you'd still manage to emerge without even the slightest clue.
As for the LOI holding the international team back, you have that ar€e about face my friend
It's the international team, and it's lemming support, which is holding the LOI back.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Olé Olé
That's a really fair post ole, expect things to happen. It's like a poor chef buying all the ingredients, throwing them into the pot then come back an hour and a half later wondering what's this mess he's cooked and why it doesn't taste like chicken jalfrezi. He's compromising ingredients to a compromised method and not getting the best out of the ingredients.
The fact that our squad is so poor is definitely making me pretty indifferent to whether he stays or goes. Yes, the performances and results have been atrocious but even a top manager wouldn't get us anywhere near qualifying. We might as well just let his contract run down.Quote:
Originally Posted by BOOMSHAKALAKA
That's just not going to wash because McCarthy had a similar level of players. For his last game in charge, we absolutely battered Denmark. The same Denmark who made the Euro semi finals. Only defeat was away to Switzerland who also had a very good euros. He had some poor performances but the excuses trotted out now for Kenny weren't tolerated then. We went from one manager nearly qualifying and only losing one game in 10 to the next manager coming joint last and only winning one match in 15 games.Quote:
Originally Posted by boovidge
Get rid of him now before he does more damage!
I think the players have changed a bit now in fairness.
Randolph hasn't played a league game in two years.
Stevens is injured. Clark isn't in the squad (not sure why). Whelan and McGoldrick have retired. Maguire has vanished really. McClean isn't the player he was. That's a lot of change. The replacements are poor
McCarthy is a better manager than Kenny for sure. But you can't ignore the player factor either.
I am pro making Ireland play better football but I'm not seeing it to be honest. I want Kenny to succeed, but he's not delivering. We are halfway through the group and we have 1 point. We are five points behind Luxembourg.
I'd like to think we are building for the future but does anyone see us suddenly playing brilliant football when the Euro 2024 qualifiers start?
Also, the frustration I had in the past with Irish managers is that they were afraid to blood young players, or pick skilful players. But back then we were talking about players who were playing week in, week out at a very good level. For example, Marc Wilson, Wes Hoolahan were ignored for years by Trap. Now, we seem to be playing young players for the sake of playing young players. Jason Molumby is on loan to West Brom's bench.
Or we are picking certain players to fit a system, such as yesterday. James McClean is in League 1 now. Surely we should be playing a system that starts Callum Robinson, and gets Coleman and Doherty, or two best players, in their favoured positions bombing up the wings?
None of it really makes sense to me anymore.
As people are pointing out, the more this goes on, people are going to start associating passing football with losing, and there will be a kneejerk reaction will be to appoint some kind of hoofball manager. Rather than building for the future, there could be long term damage.
I’m a “no hoper” club fan. I actually don’t particularly like the term “LOI fan”. I’m a football fan, my club plays in the 2nd tier of Irish football. I lived in Scotland for a while and I went regularly to a club in the 2nd tier of Scottish football, no one there described me as a Scottish championship supporter.
What I find strange is that Irish football fans (supporters of English teams) seem to think that all “loi fans” think the same. I know people who don’t rate Kenny at all who support bohs for example. I think “loi fans” have seen how little investment in irish football has meant Irish football has declined. Most countries in Europe are investing heavily in football, we are not. And it seems to be the plan that some irish fans don’t want investment.
Also I can not understand why some Irish fans don’t want our league to improve, you don’t need to support it I don’t really care, if you think supporting a club is tele and the odd game every so often that’s your call, fair play. We must be the only country in world football where we don’t want our own domestic clubs/game and most importantly players/ coaches to improve. How could our domestic game improving harm our international team? It just means another way in which players can come through our system.
On Kenny I like his approach. Mainly that he regularly is attending games at every level to see Irish players. I love he doesn’t say our players are not good enough. I like that he really understands Irish football. Also he has not blamed covid, no fans, or simply bad luck with all of the above. However his results are not good enough. Personally I would keep him and give him euro campaign. No doubt the anti domestic football crowd will get louder and he probably will be gone (and results would justify it). But it might not be the benefit for long term of Irish football but what do I know I support a no hoper Irish football club. Wouldn’t the world be a better place if we all just supported the top 6 clubs in the world, now that would be fantastic!!! And magically Irish international team would improve because that pesky loi is holding back Irish football
This is the team v Denmark:Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
Randolph, Doherty, Duffy, Egan, Stevens, Browne, Hendrick, Whelan, Hourihane, McClean, McGoldrick
Is that really any stronger than what Kenny has? McGoldrick yes but Ireland's best player is Seamus Coleman and he was missing.
Is Steven's any better than Doherty? Is Whelan any better than Cullen? Is McGuire better than Idah? Most would say the opposite.
We've gone far backwards under Kenny. There are no mitigating circumstances. His reign has been a complete failure.