Andy Reid(b 1982)

Its not terrible or anything Stutts but its the sort of thing that someone like Trap would look out for. I think Reid could have done better for the first and second goals, and he does not sense danger and defending is not natural to him in the same way creating does. If the emphasis of our team is defending, he does not have a hope of getting in to the team in any of the defending 9 in our team. Only place I think Trap would ever play him, is just behind the front man and dont think he is going to change his formation for that. Think he was prepared to have him the squad as a sub so he could offer an alternative but clearly then Trap was not happy with his attitude as a squad member and dropped him from the squad as a result.

OK, but if we're a goal down with 20 mins left is protecting the defence the boss's priority?

Trapp may be criticised for being rigid but we've only been behind twice in this campaign and both times we've got something, a win and a draw in Italy. Even the Georgia game: there wren't personnel chnages but the football changed. The full backs got much further forwatrd and central midfield actually got ahead of the ball. In Italy there was a wholesale change.

That makes me think that Trapp may still have room for Reid's attributes assuming the personality clash can be put to bed.

Yeah I agree, I would have him the squad no doubt. I just think that Trap was prepared to have him in the squad but not in the team but then he was not happy with his attitude in the squad, probably both this professionalismm and demeanour and as a result possibly felt he was a corrosive affect on the squad and has not picked him in the squad since.

The reason he's not in the squad is pretty simple, Trap's savvy enough to know how the atmosphere in the squad would be if he came back. Reid, even if he finally has decided to start acting like a professional and has got in shape, isn't the type of player to fit our system. Nor is he good enough to change the system for.

Yes he'd be a good option on the bench, but then we'd have a repeat of the Cyprus game (I think it was Cyprus...) earlier in the year. There was no need to change that game, we were pretty comfortable, kept our shape and got a good result only having to endure one or two blocked shots in the last five minutes. Reid wouldn't have done anything to help us that day. Yet anyone at the game will remember a strange atmosphere, the big screens were constantly on Andy, any time he got up to warm up the fans buzzed, any time he sat down there was discontent in the stands. The cameras zoomed in showing a very unhappy looking Reid sulking on the bench. After the game the questions were all on why he didn't use Reid.

Is it really worth all that and the shift in atmosphere/focus for a bench player? Trap was absolutely right in not using him in that situation against Cyprus, and the same away to Montenegro. I'd have liked to see Andy come on away to Cyprus in the second half, but there would have been 6 months of media speculation, Reid sulking on the bench having cameras shoved in his face, and the world class managers in the stands would be demanding Reid's inclusion at every stage of every game.

I simply think Trap is too wily and experienced not to acknowledge how all that could have affected the campaign.

The whole episode is littered with contradictions,
about Andy being a disruption and that he could not offer anything to the team within Traps framework.

Nevertheless, the options for an Andy return are getting more limited.
Against Montenegro away, in a situation where Trap was happy to hold out for the draw, he was ready to take off one of the strikers and bring Andy on.
Now Trap uses the option of Best or Folan to replace a frontman.

We have 4 wide midfield options.
Lawrence has got his 2 feet inside the door for the 4th spot.

[QUOTE=Jicked;1235408]The reason he's not in the squad is pretty simple, Trap's savvy enough to know how the atmosphere in the squad would be if he came back.QUOTE]

How on earth can you say a return to the squad for Andy Reid would be bad for morale in the squad. He was the one leading the sing-a-long!!! Does this sound like a guy thats hated in the dressing room?? The fact is, he was very niave in 'allegedly' standing up to Trap and he has paid the price with his international career under him.

As someone said already, even if he scored 2 hat tricks before the next squad is picked he STILL wouldn't get in. I find that very sad that a manager of his experience will not let it go and see what he can offer. We aren't a big enough nation to discard the best passer of a football in our team. Do you really think that Reid, if picked would expect to be picked automatically???? He has already stated that he would play a B international if it meant getting chance to prove himself for Gods sake. That doesn't sound like a man that is too big for his boots to me.

Surely there isn't a person out there that would have Liam Miller in the squad instead of Andy Reid. If Trap was any sort of manager, he would pick up one of his '4' mobile phones, and use that interperter (that the FAI are paying to stand by his side and mutter sweet nothings into his ear) to say to Andy that he is ready to bring him back once he promises to work hard and to leave his guitar at home, surely its not too much to ask that he can give him one more chance to prove himself???

God, where to start.

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Originally Posted by LFCSixty/Eighty

How on earth can you say a return to the squad for Andy Reid would be bad for morale in the squad. He was the one leading the sing-a-long!!! Does this sound like a guy thats hated in the dressing room?? The fact is, he was very niave in 'allegedly' standing up to Trap and he has paid the price with his international career under him.

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If you read my post I wasn't talking about the player's liking him or not, the mood in the camp I was referring to was a different type of mood, and if you were at the game I mentioned or remember the media whirlwind around Reid during games you'd know what I was getting at.

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As someone said already, even if he scored 2 hat tricks before the next squad is picked he STILL wouldn't get in. I find that very sad that a manager of his experience will not let it go and see what he can offer. We aren't a big enough nation to discard the best passer of a football in our team. Do you really think that Reid, if picked would expect to be picked automatically???? He has already stated that he would play a B international if it meant getting chance to prove himself for Gods sake. That doesn't sound like a man that is too big for his boots to me.

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How do you know Trap hasn't seen Reid play? Also, how many times have you seen Reid play in the flesh in the last year? So you can demand Reid is included on the back of video footage, but that same video footage is in no way determining if he isn't selected?
I never said Reid would expect to be picked automatically, but it would create a side-show we could do without when we could be drawing 0-0 after 60 mins, things going as planned, and suddenly the moans and boos start creeping in because the boy wonder is still on the bench. That's not Reid's fault, or Trap's fault, but it would happen and Trap should consider how it could effect the mood of the team.

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Surely there isn't a person out there that would have Liam Miller in the squad instead of Andy Reid. If Trap was any sort of manager, he would pick up one of his '4' mobile phones, and use that interperter (that the FAI are paying to stand by his side and mutter sweet nothings into his ear) to say to Andy that he is ready to bring him back once he promises to work hard and to leave his guitar at home, surely its not too much to ask that he can give him one more chance to prove himself???

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I'd have Miller ahead of Andy Reid. If we get three injuries the morning of a big game, Miller would be easier to slot in to the team then having to move and juggle around the whole team to include certain players. We're talking about 4th choice CM, is it really worth all this fuss?

As for your personal attacks on Trap, they're just bizarre. You're questioning if one of the most succesfull coaches of all time is a "real manager" because he doesn't pick Andy fecking Reid for gods sake :D And you believe Stephen Ireland about the 4 mobile phones do you? And you're begrudging the fact someone who's not fluent in English has to have a translator on call....what are you on about :rolleyes: :confused:

Well said Jicked. This poster has already been shown to be spoutin nonsense on another thread by Stuttgart 88 last night. Clearly has an anti Trap agenda. I am a fan of Reid but a bit of balance would say that he is lacking on the defensive duties, as yesterdays game has shown. These are duties that Trap places huge importance on. The emphasis of the team is to be strong defensively. At least we have an emphasis. Every manager as a style of play and no style is correct over another, if they both get good results. I prefer a more attractive style, however what I want from the manager of Ireland is a clear plan and stydle and direction. We have that style and direction and Reid does not fit into the starting 11 of that, and from his attitude and behaviour "played" (sic) himself out of the squad.

Can people not except that in international football its not a cae of picking the best 11 players and go from there or pickign the best 22 and going from there. Its about developing a style of play that can be got across in the 3 days that you have the squad. They need to be hard to break down, strong on set pieces and have a clear purpose. Esp when you are a mid ranking side like us. To see this in clear lines, just like at Walter Smiths, Alex Mc Leish and George Burleys Scotland. Burley tried to be expansive with average players and as a result they got beaten 4 times in the group.

To be fair Jinxed I did go off on one there, some of which, were a bit OTT:)


[QUOTE=Jicked;1235408]Trap's savvy enough to know how the atmosphere in the squad would be if he came back.QUOTE]

Why are you surprised that I thought you meant the team morale would be affected for the worse when you said that? It just seems to me, that Trap is biting off his nose to prove a point, which i think he well and truly made by now.

[QUOTE=Jicked;1235408]How do you know Trap hasn't seen Reid play? Also, how many times have you seen Reid play in the flesh in the last year? So you can demand Reid is included on the back of video footage, but that same video footage is in no way determining if he isn't selected?QUOTE]

Well, in all honestly I havent seen Reid in the flesh this year and can only go on his carling cup exploits (where he scored 2 goals and played really well, albeit against Norwich) His performance last week, where he scored and set up 2, and was involved in alot of the good things that Sunderland did. Read Steve Bruces glowing praise if you don't believe me, and yesterdays game, where again he was invloved in the goal with a sublime pass. Aside from that, i'm basing it on what i've seen him do ON the pitch over the years, whether that be in a Charlton jersey, Sunderland jersey or Irish jersey.

[QUOTE=Jicked;1235408]I'd have Miller ahead of Andy Reid. If we get three injuries the morning of a big game, Miller would be easier to slot in to the team then having to move and juggle around the whole team to include certain players. We're talking about 4th choice CM, is it really worth all this fuss?QUOTE]

So you would have liked to see him come on against Cyprus away a few weeks ago even though he hasn't played this season cos he couldn't find a club??? Come off it!!! I'd say even Liam Miller wouldn't have wanted to come on, knowing he couldn't possibly be match fit, I find it crazy that Trap would put us in a situation where this may have had to happen!

[QUOTE=Jicked;1235408]As for your personal attacks on Trap, they're just bizarre. You're questioning if one of the most succesfull coaches of all time is a "real manager" because he doesn't pick Andy fecking Reid for gods sake And you believe Stephen Ireland about the 4 mobile phones do you? And you're begrudging the fact someone who's not fluent in English has to have a translator on call....what are you on aboutQUOTE]

Fair enough, I agree, who am I?? A nobody who leaves rants on an irish football website thats who:)

I know, maybe I'm being harsh but i've listened to enough of his press conferences and post match interviews to realize I would much prefer to hear him speak Italian and let his personnal translater do the job she is being paid to do, and tell us what he REALLY thinks, than stammer away in his pigeon English. It just irriates me, thats all, sorry!

Btw, I'm sure he doesnt own '4' mobile phones, I did put that in inverted commas in fairness.

I watched MOTD. Reid looked really good on the ball. But on a negative, the first goal came when Ferdinand took down the player who Reid was supposed to be marking. Also the second goal came from a move down Reids side of the field with the full back crossing unopposed for the Burnley player to score. Might be a bit picky but Reid was missing on both occassions.

Not that you'd read much into player ratings, but The Times gave Reid 5/10 for his performance on Sunday. The Telegraph however said he was Sunderland's best player.

I think geysir is close to the mark by claiming that there are now 4 wide men "endorsed" by Trapp and we now have two big guys to call from the bench.

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

Not that you'd read much into player ratings, but The Times gave Reid 5/10 for his performance on Sunday. The Telegraph however said he was Sunderland's best player.

I think geysir is close to the mark by claiming that there are now 4 wide men "endorsed" by Trapp and we now have two big guys to call from the bench.

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in contention for bbc sport team of the week

I've said it before but I don't think Andy Reid fits into the system under Trap.

I would have him in the squad and as an option to throw on with 20 minutes left in central midfield if we were chasing a game. He can pass the ball better than anybody else we have.

Great passer. Get him playing!

If there was a game where we had to force the issue and get Keane and Doyle played in - Reid could do a job from the left wing - with certain constraints placed upon him, I'm afraid.

I think Trapp's nightmare scenario is Reid risking passes and conceding possession repeatedly, thus putting us under extreme pressure. You lose the ball in International Football you may not get it back for 2 minutes - sometimes when you are picking it out from the back of your net.

The Jack Charlton / Liam Brady issue had similarities in relation to a clash between a certain players style and the teams rigid system.

As Brady himself once said in an interview "Well, you couldn't be over elaborate with the ball. Its when you risked a pass and lost it. That's when Jack blew his top".

The emergence of a solid, quality left full could herald a re-think as regards the left wing but its too risky at the moment.

Kilbane, as much admired and liked as he is, is on the way out and his best days are behind him. Reid and Kilbane on the left is a bit too fragile for my liking.

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Originally Posted by Wolfie

I think Trapp's nightmare scenario is Reid risking passes and conceding possession repeatedly

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Sure we can hardly string two passes together anyways as it is. We constantly give the ball away.

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Originally Posted by dong2008

Sure we can hardly string two passes together anyways as it is. We constantly give the ball away.

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Within our current system -we don't give the ball away in areas that leaves us particularly exposed to counter attack.

That would not necessarily be the case if Reid were given carte blanche to pick the forward passes we currently don't risk and he lacks a defensive instinct for potential trouble.

I'd like to see Reid in the squad - just speculating as to why he isn't risked by Trapp.

I couldn't see much point in playing Andy Keogh out wide against SA. Would it have been a huge disruption to have Andy Reid there for 45 mins?
Would have been an opportune time for Trap to take out his tape measure and check on Andy's (diminishing) vital statistics.

To be fair Brady played a lot under Charlton and did he not play in every qualifier for Euro 88 and was injured for the tournament and he was injury prone by the time of the qualifiers for 1990. 2 out of Townsend and Whelan and McGrath was not a bad midfield for the majority of those qualifiers

Was Townsend there then?

I remember his debut at Dalyer on a wet weeknight, against France. I think it was post Italia 90.