if he comes back and plays well in his first game everyone will move on and this time next year it will all be forgotten about.Nobody will boo him if he scores the winner against Italy.
Printable View
if he comes back and plays well in his first game everyone will move on and this time next year it will all be forgotten about.Nobody will boo him if he scores the winner against Italy.
I woudl like to give the Ireland fans more credit and think that some of us look beyond a goal. I certainlyl do with Jason McAteer and know he went missing against Holland at home and was the reason that Gary Kelly was sent off.
My point really is that if he comes back and plays well his absense over that last while wont be an issue. He mightnt ever be anyones favorite player but people will shout and cheer for him the same as any other lad that wears the shirtQuote:
Originally Posted by NeilMcD
Hunt seems to welcome him back really. Just heard his comments on newstalk and all he says is that he would have to play in the qualifiers but then says that its up to the manager really and that whatever happens he will just get his head down and play.
As he should say, its the managers job to pick the players and if Trap feels that he could bring Ireland back into the set up without causing disruption then I trust him to do thatQuote:
Originally Posted by NeilMcD
I really would like to see SI back in the team. But I have a feeling that he is not going to be the most dependable of people. I would imagine a fall out in the future because he doesnt bother to turn up to a match for some ridiculus reason. I really feel he will end up casuing more hassle. None the less he is worth taking a chance on. Can see him slotting into right midfield, gives a bit of added pressure for the other wingers, Duff included. I dont htink SI would be a candidate for CM in Traps system. Definately no the type Trap likes in their I feel.
That's the problem with Hunt - he should play with his head up more!Quote:
Originally Posted by NeilMcD
ah come on, Gary Kelly was a liability right from the start in that game. We actually played better with ten.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeilMcD
Rest of the point taken though.
It's the first time I heard that conspiracy about Jason, I feel like I know nothing.
Oh Kelly had a nightmare but part of that was to do with no protection from McAteer that day. Both of them did not have a good game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
So we don't want back , the best player Ireland has at the moment, really?
I'd say the opinion is that the majority want him back, but not through begging.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mise Le Mas
We want him back only if it's on Trap's terms, and in a way that disrupts the squad as a little as possible, or not at all.
Not sure that means we should be booing McAteer just for a poor game. He did pop up to score the winner so it wasn't all bad. Totally different issue with Ireland.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeilMcD
eh did i mention booing.
Bingo.Quote:
I'd say the opinion is that the majority want him back, but not through begging.
We want him back only if it's on Trap's terms, and in a way that disrupts the squad as a little as possible, or not at all.
Aside from his walking away, SI has hurt us big time by constantly sniping in the press. One week he wants to play under certain circumstances, then he doesn't want to play, the next no-one has ever rang him even though we all know he was contacted by the managment. Stephen Ireland is at fault for this mess, big time. He has been a complete pr**k, it's hurt our team's build up to games, as well as clearly trying to undermine a very succesfull manager. If he was any other player, I'd tell him to go f**k himself, he cried off for a pathetic reason (I dont mean missing the Slovakian game when the supposed miscarriage happen, but after that game and especially after a change in manager there is no good reason why he cant return), and even then didn't have the grace to go quietly, instead he's made a circus of our national team by lying about his situation for no reason. A simple statement at the start of the campaign would have sufficed, instead of him lying to the press about who he has talked to, and qualifying every statement he makes with "ah, but never say never, maybe I will come back one day". It is, to put it simply, pathetic.
Then again, he isn't any other player.
We need him, he would straight away turn out to be one of our best current players, could turn out to be an all time great Irish player. But his crime has been in international football terms; a massive one. As per the above, it's not just his crying off in the first place, it's as much his behaviour afterwards. If he comes back it must be under Trap's terms. He wont like doing it, but Stephen Ireland must face the media and explain himself and give a mea culpa. The fact is, if he doesn't then going in to massive games against Cyprus, Italy and Montengro we'll have to listen to hacks speculate, guess and bullsh*t about why he quit, why he returned, and what the reaction is within the squad.
Stephen Ireland was wrong. But we need him back. If he comes back without an apology he could seriously mess up our approach to the final games, and drastically change the mood within the camp at a vital, vital stage.
It must be remembered that Stephen Ireland was very wrong for what he has done, if it's not then what sort of discipline and focus can we expect, from the media and from the players, if they do go to South Africa?
He doesn't have to go overboard and beg for mercy, but he does need to take the heat himself in front of the press ands get it all out of the way early on so we can focus on the football and qualifying, and not have every player quizzed 24/7 about his return. To be perfectly honest the team have thus far looked like doing qualifying without him. It'd be a hell of a lot easier with him in the ranks, but it's not at any cost.
Either way, it has to end soon. He has already said "I always say 'never say never' because it's hard not to, but I dont think I'll ever go back." If he really doesn't think he wont come back, then he should have the decency to say he wont ever come back, or at the very least that he wont be back for this WC campaign. If he changes his mind then he must explain and apologise for the above remarks and the numerous falsehoods he has peddled to the Irish team, FAI, management and the Irish fans. Simple as.
I don't know what all the fuss is about. Trapp plays a very defensive game. I really can's see SI fitting in. Remember he played in midfield against Cyprus away. Man City are great going forward but with SI in central midfield he doesn't offer much protection to the defence. Andrews and Whelan for all their faults are very defensive minded. If they move SI to right side, I don't think JOSH will fancy playing right full.
O'Shea plays behind Ronaldo half the time at Manchester United, I'm sure he'll be able to deal with half-hearted tracking back!Quote:
Originally Posted by drummerboy
In fairness to Trap though he was saying that he wanted us to be more confident with the ball. That'd imply a role for Ireland.Quote:
Originally Posted by drummerboy
I used to think that Ireland's lack of physical presence mitigated against his inclusion in the team. I said it often enough here!
However, looking at how we have played without the ball in recent games it's more about the shape (2 banks of 4 etc.) and organisation than actually snapping at opponents' ankles to get the ball back. We cede possession a lot but opponents have really only got near our goal because of defensive lapses. I don't see why Ireland couldn't do this - he just has to learn the drill & be disciplined in his positioning without the ball.
Watching Andrews with the equally dimunitive Liam Miller at Craven Cottage led me to think that maybe Ireland could be accomodated in the current system. Miller played surprisingly well that night.
Either way, Trap is smart enough to recognise what he wants and what to do with the players we have. I think there's been a change of opinion among fans & media alike: we are making progress, the team is evolving and we're inching closer - albeit precariously - towards qualification.
Its Mise Le Meas
Liam Miller, for all his limitations, is a conventional central midfielder though. He makes short passes, looks to receive the ball (when he's on good form), and takes the ball from defense and moves it through midfield to our attacking players.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
He doesn't really make those bursting runs from the centre that Ireland does with City, and thus is in a better position to break up opposing attacks if we give the ball away, because he's not as far forward.
The point I'm trying to make here is that while they are of a similar stature, their style of play is fairly different.
I'm not sure Ireland would have the discipline to be part of a double column of 4 defenders.
Unless the system is changed, I honestly can't see Ireland fitting into the team in any position other than as a winger (or Robbie's position between midfield and attack).
good players can adapt their game as required. one thing obvious from sat was that we need to be able to hold the ball better when we have it and SI would improve this. i wasnt too impressed with him when he did play with us before but he has had a great season with city and would without doubt be a great addition to the squad and could definately be accommodated somewayQuote:
Originally Posted by irishfan86
i dont think trap would look to get him back or make an issue of it unless he was going to play him. would be good options
s.reid
whelan
ireland
andrews
gibson
miller(well hes an option)
im leaving out a.reid unfortunately :(
Stephen Hunt was on TV3 this morning saying he didn't think Ireland would come back and that players who have got us this far should be picked ahead of him anyway. He went on to say "his Dad could play, he makes enough comments about it anyway".
He really is a rather silly little man (Hunt, well, Ireland too, but Hunt in this case) if Trap has stated that he'd like Ireland back Hunt should keep his mouth shut or just say it's the managers' decision and I'll get on with it like a good professional.
I think I'm being misunderstood- I'm not saying Ireland will be brought back and sat on the bench. What I'm saying is, I'm not entirely sure he'll be played as one of the central midfield players.
He's obviously got his own style of play, but I'd liken his defensive ability to Gerrard. Yes he can make a tackle, is hard working, etc., but his defensive positioning is almost non-existent.
He's all over the field, runs and works extremely hard, and his bursts into the box are the reason he scores and creates as much as he does- but if he doesn't get the ball when he makes these runs, and in turn the ball is given to the opposition, we're down a man in the middle of the park, and that man isn't a Roy Keane, Viera, or Mascherano- it's a Whelan or an Andrews who isn't capable of being a one-man shield to our back four.
The only way I'd have Ireland play in the middle is if Steven Reid is there alongside him.
I think Hunt is getting way too big for his boots. If progress was being made with Stphen Ireland, the likes of this idiot spouting off could have a very negative impact. No player is bigger than the team...and that includes Hunt. He needs to be punished. I'd love to see him dropped and Ireland brought back inQuote:
Originally Posted by passinginterest
hunt cant keep his big gob shut, ya i reckon he thinks hes better than he actually is. look at noel sure trying to claim robbie's goal in italy, it must run in the family. hes right tho about irelands father, he should keep his mouth shut aswell.
Agreed, I'm a big fan of Hunt's attitude on the pitch but think he should spend more time working on improving his game than appearing yet again in every media outlet (Newstalk, TV3, Irish Times at least in last 24 hours) talking about things which really should concern only the manager and the player concerned.Quote:
Originally Posted by passinginterest
I'd understand it if Hunt was still just a squad player- but he's snuck into the starting XI (on merit, mind).
I'd be running with it as long as I could and keeping my mouth shut.
As for the comment about Hunt thinking he is better than he is- I'd say his self-belief is probably one of the only reasons he's capable of playing Premiership football, so while it may be a downfall when in front of a mic, it's a good attribute on the pitch.
Now if we could just combine McGeady's talent with Hunt's confidence...
Absolutely & that was an issue the media completely failed to take account of while clamouring for his "recall".Quote:
Originally Posted by irishfan86
Both of the Hunt brothers seem to have 'Foot in Mouth' disease, that part of the brain that normally tells you not to open your mouth when something stupid comes into your head seems to be completely defective with them. It's not his call to be mouthing off about this and only gives the media more ammo on the bullsh1t story that he was involved in the alleged bullying that went on.Quote:
Originally Posted by eaststand85
I'm fans of how both have made the best of their talents but they don't seem to be the brightest of lads, even for footballers.
Hunt doesn't mess around with the boundaries of platitudes.
Maybe not intelligently and with not too much diplomacy, just like his game.
He has done well for us in this campaign.
Every team needs a Bulgarian (of sorts) in their midst.
A lot of people believe that Andy Reid was dropped for questioning the managers authority. Is that not what Hunt is doing now(assuming Trap is attempting to bring Ireland back) only in a far more public way?Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
If Hunt was a senior player in the squad his comments may be a little easier to take. He is all mouth that clown
if we keep the ball better we play better, it's simple - look at our first two games of this campaign with s. reid in the middle. we played in a very controlled and non-plussed manner and reid was the fulcrum for this. i believe ireland could curb his natural instincts (or at least modify them) to perform similarly. i'm not comparing their styles but as others have suggested, good players are good players. lately we've looked like a very poor version of all those scabby italy sides that muddle their way through group stages at the world cup before making the final - i'll take it. but s. ireland would above all help us retain the football and hopefully wouldn't unbalance our midfield too much if he did get forward occasionally. it's a risk, playing any player is - but how can we avoid taking this one?
Yeah im a big fan of hunt, but he needs to keep quiet, the comments about stephens dad were a bit out of order. But you can see where hunt is coming from too? But trap needs to tell him button it. You can see hunt if he is in the premier league next year, doing a wild over the top tackle on Ireland, i think he has that kind of mentality. Be interesting. But it is a football team not a team of the nicest charachters in Ireland, Stephen Ireland in my opinion is the best football player to come out of Ireland in years. Definitly the most potential in a player in a long while.
Hunts comments are making me a little uneasy for future harmony in the squad.
The eligibility change could possibly add fuel to the fire should one or two be added to the squad. Rightly or wrongly - The existing bunch could well resent the addition of players.
As we know, perceived wrong doing has had traumatising implications in the past.
There are a lot of blank spaces about the reasons why Andy Reid is not in the squad. I think Neil has come closest with putting a few bits together coherently.Quote:
Originally Posted by Den Perry
I'd assume of first concern to Trap is how Hunt behaves for the team and around the team.
If Reid had a serious blow up with Trap that night, i doubt if he would have been on the bench and just about to come on in the next game. And if Reid was out of place in his attitude to Trap he certainly would have apologised
and Trap is big enough to accept an apology.
Any chance of giving a rundown of what Neil was saying? or Neil if you're there can you tell me where to find them?Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
I don't know why he's not in the squad, just thought it was because of a late night bust up, despite the fact that he may not be considered suitable to Trap's style of play. Personally I think he deserves his place in the squad, but I'm very happy with Trap so far so I'm not going to criticise. Anyway, I'm going off topic here really.However, I do believe Hunt has to reigned in
He didnt give actual facts, but he came to a logical conclusion Den Perry based on a few different events.
Its apparent that Trapp has effectively banished Reid because Reid couldn't take his non-selection in first eleven on the chin nor treat it as a challenge to prove Trapp wrong.
His sulky and stroppy demeanour was becoming disruptive and an unnecessary headache.
Short and sweet.Quote:
Originally Posted by Den Perry
http://foot.ie/forums/showpost.php?p...&postcount=689