NI boss targets Republic's Gibson

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31/10/2007, 8:38 AM
ifk101

Quote:

Originally Posted by Absinthe

As opposed to this bastian of enlightened thinking, where half the posters won't even type "Northern Ireland".

Northern Ireland, Norn Iron, NI, Ulster, the six countries etc etc what's the correct phrase to use? :)
31/10/2007, 8:41 AM
Not Brazil

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuperDave

i wish i was proud of the team, but the fact that there are so many bigots in the crowd and the ifa seem to be doing to little to try to counteract the attitude (and it would be a big ****king start if they confiscated union jacks and other symbols of britishness, not to mention the national anthem) means i find it impossible.

Dave,

Would it be fair to say that bigots exist amongst the Republic Of Ireland crowd too?

Whilst it flies in no "official" capacity at Northern Ireland matches, the Union Flag is the flag of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland - not my flag of choice at a Northern Ireland game, but facts are facts.

GSTQ, whilst not my preferred choice of "anthem" at Northern Ireland games, is the National Anthem of the United Kingdom Of Great Britain and Northern Ireland - again, that is a fact.

I respect totally that you do not identify as British in any shape or form.

Can I ask, if Northern Ireland (the IFA) adopted a neutral flag and new "sporting" anthem for their games, would you support Northern Ireland?

Or, is it the case that you will never support Northern Ireland simply because to do so would give credance to the state of Northern Ireland?

Is you fundamenmtal objection simply to the existance of Northern Ireland?

Thanks in anticipation.
31/10/2007, 8:56 AM
Absinthe

Quote:

Originally Posted by ifk101

Northern Ireland, Norn Iron, NI, Ulster, the six countries etc etc what's the correct phrase to use? :)

Not six countries, just one. :)
31/10/2007, 9:03 AM
ifk101

Quote:

Originally Posted by Absinthe

Not six countries, just one. :)

Very good :D
31/10/2007, 9:08 AM
galwayhoop

Quote:

Originally Posted by Absinthe

As opposed to this bastian of enlightened thinking, where half the posters won't even type "Northern Ireland".

i think if you are honest with yourself you can admit that there are far more balanced viewpoints on here than OWC. yes there are some extreme views in both directions but there are loads of liberals on this site too.
31/10/2007, 9:23 AM
eelmonster

Quote:

Originally Posted by Not Brazil

Can I ask, if Northern Ireland (the IFA) adopted a neutral flag and new "sporting" anthem for their games, would you support Northern Ireland?

I think a whole generation of young 'nationalists' in NI would, which is what the IFA should be considering.
31/10/2007, 9:32 AM
Not Brazil

Quote:

Originally Posted by eelmonster

I think a whole generation of young 'nationalists' in NI would, which is what the IFA should be considering.

Do you honestly believe that "a whole generation of young nationalists" would swap their allegiance to the Republic Of Ireland team, in favour of supporting Northern Ireland if such changes were made?
31/10/2007, 9:37 AM
paul_oshea

Quote:

Originally Posted by osarusan

Here's a post by Ealing Green on the 2nd September, which still rings true -

This is what people seem to fail to realise - Fifa/Uefa are the only ones who will decide if Gibson and others in a similar situation.

Whether the player wants to play for Northern Ireland or not, whether they feel they are not represented by GSTQ and the respective flag,whether they "feel" Irish or not........related to this issue, these things are not relevant.

Fifa/Uefa may decide that it should be a right of all citizens to play for their country, or they may decide that citizenship alone will not allow all citizens to play for that country unless they meet other criteria.

If the decision they make breaks a law which overrides it, the decision will surely be appealed to that higher law.

If not, the decision will stand.

Orusan, its still goes back to my point, why bother having a legal departement and lawyers if its simple a case of "we decide" thats it. Its there for a reason and people who dont realise this are even more stupid. They have a legal department to ensure everything is legally bound, bound to who is the real question though.

Quote:

And yes, Ruaidhri is Irish. So am I, and im very proud to be so. Still doenst make me eligible for the Republic of Ireland football team.

Help me out here, British Irish? there cant be two countries making up the one nationality. Scottish people cant be English and vice versa. This is the ideology I really fail to understand. I am Irish, Irish-Irish, Irish-Irish-Irish. Irish, Irish Irish-Irish,Irish-Irish Irish and finally Irish. Be interesting to see who understands the latter.

Quote:

Do you honestly believe that "a whole generation of young nationalists" would swap their allegiance to the Republic Of Ireland team, in favour of supporting Northern Ireland if such changes were made?

I do. I certainly know the majority of my mates from there would. I also know they find it hard to fully feel a connection to ROI, but their dislike for Norn Iron natoinal team and all it represent(s/ed) is stronger, therefore they support Celtic!! Its like their national team.
31/10/2007, 9:47 AM
Not Brazil

Quote:

Originally Posted by paul_oshea

Help me out here, British Irish? there cant be two countries making up the one nationality. Scottish people cant be English and vice versa. This is the ideology I really fail to understand. I am Irish, Irish-Irish, Irish-Irish-Irish. Irish, Irish Irish-Irish,Irish-Irish Irish and finally Irish. Be interesting to see who understands the latter.

Do you understand "Irish American"?

Let me explain.

English/British
Scottish/British
Welsh/British
Irish/ British

All part of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

Proudly Irish and British.

I fully understand that you are Irish.

I would refer you to, the much flaunted on this thread, GFA.;)
31/10/2007, 9:52 AM
paul_oshea

Irish American and Irish-British are certainly not the same thing.

Quote:

Proudly Irish and British.

So what exactly makes you Irish, and what exactly makes you British and then assuming both are not mutually exclusive they must be associative and how so?
31/10/2007, 9:54 AM
eelmonster

I would like to think so, yes - why not? I was thinking more about children and young people who hadn't yet pledged any 'allegiance'.
31/10/2007, 9:55 AM
Not Brazil

Quote:

Originally Posted by paul_oshea

I do. I certainly know the majority of my mates from there would. I also know they find it hard to fully feel a connection to ROI, but their dislike for Norn Iron natoinal team and all it represent(s/ed) is stronger, therefore they support Celtic!! Its like their national team.

"All that it represents"?:confused:

It represents the state of Northern Ireland.

So - are you telling me that your mates would support "all that it represents", just so long as we didn't fly the Ulster Banner and play GSTQ at our matches?

Are you telling me that you believe that a sizeable number of people from Northern Ireland who "support" the Republic Of Ireland team, are not, in fact, totally at ease in their "support"?

Seems odd that they adopt Celtic as a quasi national team - Celtic are a club based in Scotland. Scotland is an integral part of the United Kingdom, albeit with close historical ties to this island:confused:
31/10/2007, 10:00 AM
Not Brazil

Quote:

Originally Posted by eelmonster

I would like to think so, yes - why not? I was thinking more about children and young people who hadn't yet pledged any 'allegiance'.

That's interesting.

The concept of "a whole generation of young nationalists" supporting a team representing the state of Northern Ireland is very difficult to believe.

I wish it were true....but I suspect that the whole concept of Irish "nationalism" evolves around a desire to see an end to the state of Northern Ireland.:confused:
31/10/2007, 10:04 AM
Absinthe

Quote:

Originally Posted by paul_oshea

Irish American and Irish-British are certainly not the same thing.

So what exactly makes you Irish, and what exactly makes you British and then assuming both are not mutually exclusive they must be associative and how so?

What makes us Irish is being born on the Island of Ireland.
What make us British is being born in the UK.

Wheres the confusion in that? That is how I have always felt, the GFA doesnt come into it, neither does owning a passport.

I will actually be getting an Irish passport within the next year.
31/10/2007, 10:10 AM
Not Brazil

Quote:

Originally Posted by paul_oshea

So what exactly makes you Irish, and what exactly makes you British and then assuming both are not mutually exclusive they must be associative and how so?

Irish by birthright.

Born in Belfast, Northern Ireland.

Northern Ireland forms part of the island of Ireland.

Northern Ireland is part of the United Kingdom.

It's not really that complicated.
31/10/2007, 10:12 AM
paul_oshea

Quote:

So - are you telling me that your mates would support "all that it represents", just so long as we didn't fly the Ulster Banner and play GSTQ at our matches?

Are you telling me that you believe that a sizeable number of people from Northern Ireland who "support" the Republic Of Ireland team, are not, in fact, totally at ease in their "support"?

Seems odd that they adopt Celtic as a quasi national team - Celtic are a club based in Scotland. Scotland is an integral part of the United Kingdom, albeit with close historical ties to this island

Yes.

No, "at ease", is not what I said, but a full associated connection to the team, is definitely not there from what I have noticed - and again thats just with the people I have encountered ( friends and people I have met ), not branding everyone in the same way. I used to drink in a pub in North London that was the celtic pub of north london and it got a hell of a lot of Northerners, who I would categorise most to be in this section. They certainly werent there for the "Ireland" matches anyhow!

I know, but from afar its what they grew up on.
31/10/2007, 10:12 AM
Absinthe

Quote:

Originally Posted by Not Brazil

That's interesting.

The concept of "a whole generation of young nationalists" supporting a team representing the state of Northern Ireland is very difficult to believe.

I wish it were true....but I suspect that the whole concept of Irish "nationalism" evolves around a desire to see an end to the state of Northern Ireland.:confused:

What you dont take into account here is that people will be labelled as Nationalists if they vote for either Sein Fein or the SDLP.

Life is not so simple, as this does not reflect whether they would vote to dissolve the the border or not if pushed on the issue. I know plenty of Catholics who would vote to keep the border, yet vote for the SDLP in elections. I also know Protestants who would vote to dissolve the border, and one in particular who has chosen to move to the Republic to live, simply because he just wanted to. i.e. wasnt for a job, or a girl etc.....

(They would now be eligible for the ROI football team, but you wouldnt want him, hes gash.)

But who knows what will happen in the future. With ever increasing voter apathy anything is possible.
31/10/2007, 10:14 AM
eelmonster

Quote:

Originally Posted by Not Brazil

That's interesting.

The concept of "a whole generation of young nationalists" supporting a team representing the state of Northern Ireland is very difficult to believe.

I wish it were true....but I suspect that the whole concept of Irish "nationalism" evolves around a desire to see an end to the state of Northern Ireland.:confused:

I thought nationalist would be a less crude signifier. Who's to say the nation isn't a Northern Irish nation.
31/10/2007, 10:15 AM
paul_oshea

Quote:

Originally Posted by Not Brazil

Irish by birthright.

Born in Belfast, Northern Ireland.

Northern Ireland forms part of the island of Ireland.

Northern Ireland is part of the United Kingdom.

It's not really that complicated.

It is really, why? Because it all depends on what "the" definition of Irish is.

Not yours, and not necessarily mine.
31/10/2007, 10:32 AM
Not Brazil

Quote:

Originally Posted by Absinthe

What you dont take into account here is that people will be labelled as Nationalists if they vote for either Sein Fein or the SDLP.

Life is not so simple, as this does not reflect whether they would vote to dissolve the the border or not if pushed on the issue. I know plenty of Catholics who would vote to keep the border, yet vote for the SDLP in elections. I also know Protestants who would vote to dissolve the border, and one in particular who has chosen to move to the Republic to live, simply because he just wanted to. i.e. wasnt for a job, or a girl etc.....

(They would now be eligible for the ROI football team, but you wouldnt want him, hes gash.)

But who knows what will happen in the future. With ever increasing voter apathy anything is possible.

I understand all of that.

I still find it hard to comprehend that "a whole generation of young nationalists" would opt to support Northern Ireland, solely on account of the IFA changing a flag and anthem.

I think the greatest fear of many is actually a pluralist Northern Ireland, at peace with itself, within a Union that is providing prosperity for all the people of Northern Ireland.

This is reflected in football - the idea of players from both communities coming together with a common purpose - ie. doing their very best for Northern Ireland - is something that many people resent.

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