LOI In Europe 2021

Just catching up on the thread now - looks like I'm going to have to paraphrase the great Lord Flashheart! "Cancel the state funeral, tell the king to stop blubbing, Flash is not dead!" Just been a particularly hectic week.

But yeah, they're two serious results. (And Rovers did alright too I guess!) I've contacted Dalyer looking for my cut for reverse jinxing Bohs. :)

They're results to get excited about too, even if a read through the thread shows how utterly unexpected both were. Who'd have thought back in March that Abibi would only concede twice against a top Dutch side?!

Does it invalidate the points I was making? Not really. They were still quite valid, as AN Mouse's stats showed. There was someone after the second round saying this was the greatest European season ever (or something along those lines) - but given the results at the time (beating a pre-season lower-half Welsh team, one win from four against lower-half Icelandic opposition, a last-minute winner against Estonian opposition, and an admittedly decent win against a Luxembourg side maybe slightly tainted by Dalymount Rower's suggestion of financial problems at the club), that attitude was real minnowism for me.

Does it invalidate the point in retrospect? One swallow doesn't make a summer, but certainly they're the kind of results we should be targeting more often. You might have Sligo v Rosenborg as a slightly better win because it was away and Rosenborg weren't in pre-season? Probably Dundalk v BATE too as it was an aggregate win against a CL group stage regular. But that's probably about it for the past decade and a half of European games (I think someone already mentioned Derry winning both legs against Göteborg in 2006, and the draw against PSG that followed was probably better again)

Second legs will be interesting this week. FWIW, I can't agree that elimination for either would devalue the results.

Woof! :D

While this will be important in saying if good results are followed up over the 2 legs. It should not take away from 2 great and relatively surprising results.

That said the tricky thing with european footbal is consistency. Can we sustain these performances...? Dundalk reqched a pinnacle but their players were on display at higher level and moved on to greener pastures now its rovers turn at the top. Bohs are having a great year but it wud be for nought if they dont get in again next year or the year after to be seeded and add to their coefficient etc etc

The coefficient is a funny one, we seem to have our better years when ranked lower, get an easy win to start & get settled into europe before playing a tougher opponent. When we are ranked higher & enter at a later stage we dont get the opportunity to pick up easy points or the players to get settled into playing in europe

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Originally Posted by sparky12345678

While this will be important in saying if good results are followed up over the 2 legs. It should not take away from 2 great and relatively surprising results.

That said the tricky thing with european footbal is consistency. Can we sustain these performances...? Dundalk reqched a pinnacle but their players were on display at higher level and moved on to greener pastures now its rovers turn at the top. Bohs are having a great year but it wud be for nought if they dont get in again next year or the year after to be seeded and add to their coefficient etc etc

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I disagree tbh if you dont do it over two legs then its really a case of the better team turned it on when they needed to in the second leg to do the job and the first leg win go's down as a "moral victory" for the plucky underdog.
Paok didnt seem arsed until they went two down and then changed it up and almost got back for a draw.
Vitesse played like they expected to win and win easily.
If Bohs or Dundalk back up those results and go through they will be famous victories remembered for years.

How many people will remember or care that Rovers beat Slovan Bratislava in Tallaght....i know i wont because we still lost overall.
Partizan Belgrade ...different story....Bate Borisov for DFC. Victories that were complete and had consequences

Ditto Rovers on Thursday, winning last Thursday (admittedly against inferior opposition to Slovan, Paok or Vitesse) wont make me feel any better if we don't back it up on Thursday.
For me the two leg wins for Bohs against Dudelange will be the result i remember if they go out this week. No debate convincing win over two legs where they proved themselves the better team against decent opposition.

You're not really comparing like with like though. Even though Rovers beat Bratislava 2-1 in the second leg they were still losing the tie at that scoreline. Dundalk did similar a few years back against Hajduk Split.
Like Sligo against Rosenborg, Bohs have actually taken the lead in the tie against a vastly richer club, which is commendable in my book.

I got a ticket for the Dundalk game in Tallaght tomorrow night. At Pats you get an email with a designated time to show up at. I haven’t got an email or seen any details on staggered arrival times for this game, does anyone know if that’s a thing at Tallaght or is it just a case of showing up at whatever time?

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Originally Posted by sbgawa

I disagree tbh if you dont do it over two legs then its really a case of the better team turned it on when they needed to in the second leg to do the job and the first leg win go's down as a "moral victory" for the plucky underdog.
Paok didnt seem arsed until they went two down and then changed it up and almost got back for a draw.
Vitesse played like they expected to win and win easily.
If Bohs or Dundalk back up those results and go through they will be famous victories remembered for years.

How many people will remember or care that Rovers beat Slovan Bratislava in Tallaght....i know i wont because we still lost overall.
Partizan Belgrade ...different story....Bate Borisov for DFC. Victories that were complete and had consequences

Ditto Rovers on Thursday, winning last Thursday (admittedly against inferior opposition to Slovan, Paok or Vitesse) wont make me feel any better if we don't back it up on Thursday.
For me the two leg wins for Bohs against Dudelange will be the result i remember if they go out this week. No debate convincing win over two legs where they proved themselves the better team against decent opposition.

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I mean obviously winning the tie against a higher ranked team like Partizan or BATE is better than winning one of the legs against a higher ranked team. Obviously following through with a draw for either dundalk or Bohs will stand to them much longer. I do think though that if they both go home this week they can hold their heads up high given this is only Bohs 2nd year out in Europe in several years. Next year only winning one of the legs against a higher ranked team might not be as big of a deal then. Dundalk ofc have more achievements to live up to than an away draw but given the year theyre having they still exceeded expectations.

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Originally Posted by Philosophizer

You're not really comparing like with like though. Even though Rovers beat Bratislava 2-1 in the second leg they were still losing the tie at that scoreline. Dundalk did similar a few years back against Hajduk Split.
Like Sligo against Rosenborg, Bohs have actually taken the lead in the tie against a vastly richer club, which is commendable in my book.

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No, it's not like-for-like, and quite frankly, it's a ridiculous argument, made from an extremely comfortable position.

PAOK had an opening 6/7 minutes to the game where they looked like they could cut loose. Bohs got a foothold and turned the screw on the game. PAOK were excellent for the 20 mins after Bohs scored the second, could have equalised, but the final 10 mins - certainly the last 5 - of the game, Bohs were stronger, and were the team pushing for the next goal.
If Bohs go out on Thursday by losing 2-0, or 3-1, then it won't diminish the first leg result. A hammering absolutely would.

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Originally Posted by sbgawa

I disagree tbh if you dont do it over two legs then its really a case of the better team turned it on when they needed to in the second leg to do the job and the first leg win go's down as a "moral victory" for the plucky underdog.
Paok didnt seem arsed until they went two down and then changed it up and almost got back for a draw.
Vitesse played like they expected to win and win easily.
If Bohs or Dundalk back up those results and go through they will be famous victories remembered for years.

How many people will remember or care that Rovers beat Slovan Bratislava in Tallaght....i know i wont because we still lost overall.
Partizan Belgrade ...different story....Bate Borisov for DFC. Victories that were complete and had consequences

Ditto Rovers on Thursday, winning last Thursday (admittedly against inferior opposition to Slovan, Paok or Vitesse) wont make me feel any better if we don't back it up on Thursday.
For me the two leg wins for Bohs against Dudelange will be the result i remember if they go out this week. No debate convincing win over two legs where they proved themselves the better team against decent opposition.

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There's the problem, we're the most underfunded league in Europe. We regularly play against teams with budgets far bigger than ours every year, with the away leg usually in a stadium three times the size of our own. Not counting single leg victories will lead to madness

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Originally Posted by Kingdom

No, it's not like-for-like, and quite frankly, it's a ridiculous argument, made from an extremely comfortable position.

PAOK had an opening 6/7 minutes to the game where they looked like they could cut loose. Bohs got a foothold and turned the screw on the game. PAOK were excellent for the 20 mins after Bohs scored the second, could have equalised, but the final 10 mins - certainly the last 5 - of the game, Bohs were stronger, and were the team pushing for the next goal.
If Bohs go out on Thursday by losing 2-0, or 3-1, then it won't diminish the first leg result. A hammering absolutely would.

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I'm not sure what is so "ridiculous" about saying that winning a tie over two legs is infinitely better than winning a one off game where the second leg was lost when the opposition needed to perform and did. One is a comprehensive achievement the other is catching someone on the hop and then being turned over.
I'm equally not sure what my "comfortable position" is given I'm saying the exact same applies to Rovers and Dundalk re Partizan or Bate meaning way more than any individual result and equally that Bohs beating Dudelange a very decent team comprehensively over two legs would be better then winning one leg against any team and then losing the second leg to go out.

If any of the Irish Teams back up their first leg results by going through it has a huge impact giving them a crack at group stages which means immeasurably more than a feel good first leg result.
I would put going through against the relative opposition as 1 Bohs 2 Dundalk 3 Rovers in terms of achievement.

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Originally Posted by sbgawa

I disagree tbh if you dont do it over two legs then its really a case of the better team turned it on when they needed to in the second leg to do the job and the first leg win go's down as a "moral victory" for the plucky underdog.

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I think you can still acknowledge "2 great and relatively surprising results" while agreeing that to win the tie outright would be a better achievement again. There can be levels of good results.

But definitely for me, a first leg result is better than a second leg win when you're already 2/3-0 down and the other side knows the tie is over and doesn't need to push for a late equaliser - that sort of stuff.

I've only seen the Dundalk highlights, and yeah, it looks like Vitesse were all over Dundalk and got complacent, but that's football. The Bohs/Sligo results in Iceland at the start of all this were poor results even though the LoI sides were (apparently) doing most of the pressing. By the same logic, these are good results.

Losing the tie after winning the first leg quite obviously diminishes, and significantly diminishes, the first leg victory regardless of the competing clubs and any gulf in class. It is nonsense to suggest otherwise.

Bohs and Dundalk both played superbly two of maturest performances from Irish clubs I have seen and someone mentioned above those performances and results are “commendable” however should they both be on the receiving end of quite heavy defeats in their respective second leg ties it of course diminishes the importaance and impressiveness of those performances.

I mean it is literally the raison d’être of two legged ties and aggregate scorelines.

Can we all just agree that Sligo made a pigs ear of Europe this year and the other teams either lived up to or exceeded expectations.
It also makes for a more amiable, pleasant forum to view during the annual European runs.

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Originally Posted by placid casual

Can we all just agree that Sligo made a pigs ear of Europe this year and the other teams either lived up to or exceeded expectations.
It also makes for a more amiable, pleasant forum to view during the annual European runs.

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I think we can all agree on that for sure, snatching defeat from the jaws of victory

its funny how redundant the conversation will be but it is ofc good to commend what should be commended.
Drogheda going out against Kiev after an epic game or Bohs blowing the second leg against Salzburg show that the "almost there" stories do live on because of that.
Yes a hammering will diminish the achievement, but if its a plucky draw for 90 minutes and either vitesse or PAOk sneak the win... or go through after penalties it will also be really frustrating ha.

If we all agree then the forum dies :(

Agreed

Tomorrow has much more of a cup feeling about it because it really is do or die. We could easily be here with no teams left in Europe by the time we go to bed tomorrow night.

The majority of European games managed to be staggered this season. Must have been able to watch about a dozen of the games so far, shame that I won't be able to get the full 270(+) minutes as all games are must see tv (for me at least).

My only hope for Bohs and Dundalk is that there in with a shout up until the final whistle. But that was my hope for last week and they absolutely burst those low expectations. If either can get to half time with a clean sheet, pressure will build (particularly in Greece) and you never know what could transpire.

It's really hard to imagine how the Rovers game will develop given just how little those lads played in Dublin. But since they need to score you'd hope Rovers are good enough to cope with any attacking threat they manage to produce while being able to exploit the space left at the back. One part of the performance Rovers need to get right in how they manage the game, if they can stop them getting into any sort of rhythm with the same 'gamesmanship' which was on show in Tallaght I think it'll go a long way to seeing out the tie.

Bohs fans barred from the ground,seems a few travelled and bought tickets ,UEFA did say so,still a bit of a sickner after Greeks got in the Aviva last week….