We might get a phone call or a late invite to the top table , a few clubs above us in the league are operating off the shels model.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fivesilver
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We might get a phone call or a late invite to the top table , a few clubs above us in the league are operating off the shels model.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fivesilver
Yes, and he's going to stamp his foot 150% harder than anyone has ever done before through the magical power of marketing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fivesilver
Can we just get a consensus of "Waaaaaaaaaaa" from the fans of teams not involved and then get back to having fans of those teams involved discussing the merits?
Fair enoughQuote:
Originally Posted by GavinZac
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Originally Posted by Saint Charlie
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Originally Posted by Dodge
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Originally Posted by EalingGreen
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Originally Posted by niallsparky
Its the people who say that they are dead against Drury's proposals, but conceptually in favour of an AIL, yet can't seem to put their finger on what shape it would need to take for them to support it, that I can't get my head around.
When word of Drury's and Jim Roddy's putative plan surfaced ages ago people got outraged and said they couldn't support something that didn't have any promotion and relegation or wouldn't be supported by both national jurisdictions. The plans attempt to address both these issues and now the very same people have moved onto a new list of issues to be outraged about.
Apart from not having promotion and relegation for several years, basing the teams on aspects other than footballing merit, including a caveat about promotion even after they do allow promotion?Quote:
Originally Posted by OneRedArmy
Thats more like it - their opinions matter. As long as their concerns are addressed, OneRedArmy, we move closer to a viable professional league on this island. Not sure if you guys are familiar with the concept of "user feedback" in product development but the way to perfect a 'product' is by finding out whats wrong with it, via the people who will be using it. Far better to find a fault at the beginning than half way through the first quarter.Quote:
Originally Posted by gustavo
There are already caveats - premier licenses and such.Quote:
Originally Posted by Macy
I would have issues about the selection basis, the 10 team concept , lack of promotion/relegation for the first few seasons, 100k upfront , 10% of gate receipts, ridulous attandance increase estimates , if these were addressed I would be happier about the prospoal, the only i like about the proposal at the moment is the return to winter football.Quote:
Originally Posted by OneRedArmy
It would also be good if they would back up some of their ridiculous claims like "80% of clubs are technically insolvent." The document does its best to paint a black picture of the Irish League in order to make them look like the Knight on the white horse.Quote:
Originally Posted by londonred
I have asked before, but why are P1 involved in all this? Is it their love of the game? :rolleyes:
I like the concept and the idea of the ail but this plan stinks. P1 have no interest in the state of irish football and what are they going to do that everybody else has failed. I don't think professional football on the island is the way forward yet but clubs should concentrate on youth development and invest in infrastructure instead of blowing their gate receipts on players wages.
I thinks clubs should concentrate more on self sustainability because at the moment it seems that one or two bad gates will really f*ck teams up.
Listen this proposal is laughable and doesn't merit serious discussion. These people have achieved agreement on both sides of the border. The football associations have told them to get lost. Could it be any clearer!!Quote:
Originally Posted by GavinZac
Why is it still going a year after being first announced?Quote:
Originally Posted by SMorgan
Why have the major clubs signed up?
Why is someone with a track record like Drury involved?
Why have the national footballing bodies moved their position from a flat no to not ruling it out to investigating the concept of an AIL?
Also Linfield are still not on side for an all Ireland league.Quote:
Originally Posted by OneRedArmy
1. + 2. Because the top clubs are as a rule overspending massively and are looking for a silver bullet solution to their unsustainable wagebills. Blaming the 65% rule or the FAI is really just an excuse.Quote:
Originally Posted by OneRedArmy
3. Dunno much about his track record- what has he done?
4. They don't want to see a breakaway I guess, but they don't seem anywhere close to endorsing it.
Mea culpa; I mis-read your post as saying that football in Ireland was untenable, which opinion has been bandied about carelessly on this forum before.Quote:
Originally Posted by OneRedArmy
However, although professional football here is obviously untenable for the moment, Bald Student's post -
...sums up my view on things as well. There's certainly nothing in the proposals which give the merest hint that they're realistic, or that they will do what 40 live games a season, summer soccer, European progress, MNS, CPOs, eL Weakly, professional football (such as we have) and relatively big named players have failed to do.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bald Student
And for those who are using the A League in Australia as an example of what could happen, I'd like to counter with the New Zealand Football Championships, a new franchise league set up in 2004/05 in a country roughly Ireland's size where football isn't the number one sport. The league still hasn't taken off (the grand final last year got 3,800) and the game is roughly where it was beforehand.
I get the feeling that Derry fans are expecting to see Drury on the new series of Dragon's Den probably looking to get James Caan out with some help from John Hume :D
The Dragons will also be asked to play a 5 a-side friendly later in the year in the city.
Fintan Drury details from the Indo:
Age: 46
Job: Football agent. Chairman of Paddy Power Bookmakers. Chairman of Platinum One and director of Anglo Irish bank.
Full details here: http://www.independent.ie/business/i...cv-463060.htmlQuote:
Career: A former RTE journalist who switched sides and moved into the PR game. Drury sold his PR company to concentrate on sports management. The expanding business's clients range from Manchester United's Liam Miller to rugby international Gordon D'Arcy. He is also chairman of Paddy Power Bookmakers and a non-executive director of Anglo Irish Bank.
Anglo Irish bank :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Mr A
Hobbies: Spending time with his family, playing golf and tennis and supporting Manchester City.
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Originally Posted by pineapple stu
Rather than using the A league as a strict template I think there are a lot of lessons to learn from it, very similar set of circumstances with regard to league perception, genereal interest in the game and rival sports.
The New Zealand leauge is not one that I know a whole lot about but I do know the first ALeague franchise over there flopped big time, the replacement in Wellington is faring a whole lot better with average crowds in 5 figures.
I would think that the (relative) success of one club in a bigger league would have a detrimental effect on the domestic league. It supports the reasons why there was (quite rightly) such strong opposition to the various ideas of Dublin based teams for the EPL & SPL over the years.
Because the people who stand to make most out of it want to make their bucks? Another couple of clubs in trouble due to overspending makes it a prime time to come in as the white knights....Quote:
Originally Posted by OneRedArmy
You mean sligo? and waterford? and harps? i don't think they're involved.Quote:
Originally Posted by Macy
And Galway? Limerick may be ok but would be looking at increasing their turnover by a factor of 5 or 6 to compete in this.Quote:
Originally Posted by GavinZac
Or Galway. A PR man would know the time to do a relaunch of a scheme that makes outlandish claims of how much money is going to be made is when clubs are in the news for financial difficulties.Quote:
Originally Posted by GavinZac
Not sure Glentoran are in great shape either, and that's before you even go into whether what most of the top EL clubs are doing is in any way sustainable.
of course. strike while the iron is hot, as you will. Expect some more details on their plans for European places when the last club is out of UEFA competition.Quote:
Originally Posted by Macy
Who said they dont know what form it would take to support it?Quote:
Originally Posted by OneRedArmy
There are a few things I disagree with with the current proposals(leaving out that I think their targets are a bit high)
1) Clubs should be there on footballing merit. If its going to be 10 clubs, then have the top 2/3 from the IL and the top 7/8 from the EL.
If they said they had invited, Linfield, Glentoran,Cliftonville, Derry,Bohs, Pats, Cork City, Drogs, Sligo, then you wouldnt have half the disagreement.
2) Winter football- No thanks
3) P& R- not a fan of no promotion/relegation.
4) Starting next August- very skeptical.
Those would be my main issues, also there needs to be more solid info about how clubs are going to increase attendances by 150%, what marketing will be used etc etc.
1. Is it now not a already year late?Quote:
Originally Posted by OneRedArmy
2. Have they? You mean they have expressed an interest in being kept informed of developments?
3. Money?
4. I can't remember the IFA stating the flat "no" since it was first muted? Indeed I would be surprised if it has even appeared on the IFA's agenda.
gavin answer me please if the IFA has said no and delaney will not even meet with platium one how is this ever going to happen ...geniune question
how did the Eircom League happen?Quote:
Originally Posted by passerrby
i assume it was like minded people agreeing the best way forward for the league. dont think thats the case this time to much opposition from to many quartersQuote:
Originally Posted by GavinZac
One assertion which struck me as curious is the following:
"Discussions will continue with the Referees in order to create a panel of full time referees as soon as is practicably possible"
How much will this cost?
I assume the average referee is currently in his 30's-40's. Most will have a reasonable job, with many having a wife and family. Therefore, to induce them to make a career switch for no more than a few years, with possible difficulty in resuming that career when the refereeing ends, will mean they will demand a reasonable salary (up to €40k p.a.?), with the security of a reasonably long contract, since they will likely have to retire from the game before they're 50.
And with 12 teams/6 matches per weekend, the Panel will need as many as 10 f-t Refs. There will also be ancilliary costs of Referees Training, plus Linsesmen and Assessors. Add to this the cost of administration and employing people generally (tax, Nat. Insurance, benefits, Pension etc). Oh, and they will each require a Company Car, plus petrol allowance, since we can't have them queuing up at the Bus Stop outside the ground after a game, where any fan who was less than happy with their performance might spot them!
Therefore, I can't see this particular idea giving much change out of €500,000 per annum.
Where is that going to come from? Unless, of course, those clever chaps at Platinum haven't thought to cost it. Or they have, but are just making impressive-sounding promises in order to show people how "professional" they are, which they can later go back on? :rolleyes:
Good God I actually just read the proposal from front to back,it's like it was written by a 16 year old, obsessive Football Manager fan who thinks he knows whats best for the game judging by his trophy haul during his ten year tenure as Man Utd manager :eek:
Seriously there is little indication to where their facts come from, they contradict themselves in some places (we want nothing to do with the two leagues below the AIPL, we will give payments to relegated clubs to the two leagues), there is no concrete plans as to how they will better the league in terms of marketability, they insult the IFA and the FAI at every corner (presumably they hoped we would all run at both headquarters with pitchforks raised after reading their mission statement), and they give no indication as to how they will persuade Uefa to bypass the fact that a ten team Irish league doesn't deserve 2 European Cup places, and won't be answerably to Uefa's Golden Rule of being run by the Assosications of our countries.
One of the more idiotic proposals I've read regarding this league, and well, I've read an awful lot of rubbish regarding this league on this website. On a last point (I was going to take down things I wanted to bring up, but there was 2-3 items a page up to the point they started repeating themselves) does anyone else feel uncomfortable with Platinum One deciding whether a football team is suitable enough for promotion when they bring relegation/promotion into the equation? They say that they will have a playoff between the LoI and IL winners and decide if they meet the criteria for promotion. Now I have no issue with an AIPL following Uefa guidelines, but considering that they base this league on marketability I wonder if, say, Monaghan went on a Cobh 2007 style run, won the LoI, won the playoff and met the Uefa guidelines, would Platinum One turn them away for not being as marketable as, say, Limerick or Galway (if we finished bottom of the AIPL that season)?
What, you mean Platinum One will be issuing things like "premier licenses"? That'd never happen!Quote:
Originally Posted by jebus
I respect anybodys right to further improve the lot of the club/team in whatever way they see fit but they to must show the same to those of us who see this a detrimental to there clubs, I thinkwe are all in a leaking boat not a sinking but leaking boat and some are being asked to jump overboard so that others may stay afloat.
ironically those wishing to stay on board are the heaviest.
Completely different thing from the FAI issuing licenses and Platinum One deciding who they like better between clubs, you know this though and are just being your usual disagreeable self, but sure what else is newQuote:
Originally Posted by GavinZac
I'm really not! Whats different between the criteria the FAI apply (applied) and those PO would?Quote:
Originally Posted by jebus
Im all off it
If the club's not marketable they can refuse them entry. Even the FAI aren't that bad.Quote:
Originally Posted by GavinZac
Oh wait....
Platinum One will (rightly) look at this from a profit margin viewpoint if they take this on, hence clubs from towns (Monaghan, Cobh etc.) will never be as marketable as clubs like Limerick and Galway (barring some population boom), and so I can't foresee a time when Platinum One would ever allow a club like that to take the place of any of the proposed AIPL clubs.Quote:
Originally Posted by GavinZac
The FAI wouldn't do that as they are required to look at this from a sporting viewpoint (albeit a money driven one), but Cobh being allowed into the Premier after a fantastic run like last year's simply wouldn't happen under Platinum One I feel
As pointed out Linfield have not signed up. But not only have they not signed up to it, they have expressed opposition to it. Also Galway asked not to be involved. Why have they.Quote:
Originally Posted by OneRedArmy
Would you mind telling me what Fintan Drury's track record in relation to domestic soccer, because I'll be damned if I bloody know. I know Jim Roddy's - a couple of years ago he wanted a 10 team Premier league with no PnR for 3 years. Sound familiar!!
The current situation is that both association have distances its self from the proposal and there has been no softening of that position. Can you give me a single qoute from either assocication, but especially the IFA, to back-up your claim that they are lighting their approach to P1. The current situation is that both association want nothing to do with the P1 proposal.
I'll go back to a point I made previously, it difficult to understand why anybody is taking this proposal seriously. It really is pie in the sky stuff that makes its promoters look as if they are not living in the real world.
A 10-team league with no PnR for 3 years. We'll all be q-ing up for that TV coverage!!! not