Advice on the Laws of the Game

Printable View

Show 40 post(s) from this thread on one page

23/05/2007, 12:50 PM
gunner1

Quote:

Originally Posted by renovater

Just to clear up the sending off rule
If a player is sent off in a cup match and his team wins he serves his match in the next round of the cup.
If his team loses and he was sent off in the cup game then he serves it in his next match, have I this fifa rule right?:confused:

i think the player is automatically suspended for his next match league or cup
whichever is first
09/07/2007, 8:04 AM
Oh No

Goalkeeper collects ball on ground at full stretch, takes a slight knock in the process and drops ball. Referee waves play on, goalkeeper picks up ball and clears.

Has the goalkeeper fouled the ball? Indirect free kick in surely!!
15/07/2007, 7:45 PM
The Ref

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oh No

Goalkeeper collects ball on ground at full stretch, takes a slight knock in the process and drops ball. Referee waves play on, goalkeeper picks up ball and clears.

Has the goalkeeper fouled the ball? Indirect free kick in surely!!

Sorry for the delay, am away for a while and only have internet access sporadically.

Firstly the goalkeeper (or any other player) cannot foul the ball, a free kick (direct or indirect) is awarded for a player committing an offence, just a small technical point.

An indirect free kick is awarded to the opposing team if a goalkeeper, inside his own penalty area, touches the ball again with his hands after it has been released from his possession and the ball has not touched an other player.

From the way you explain it, it doesn�t appear that the goalkeeper was in possession of the ball i.e. he was in full control of the ball, which is probably why the referee did not award an indirect free kick (I presume this is what happened).

If had the ball fully under his control, under the strict enforcement of the laws it should be an indirect free kick, however if the goalkeeper is injured, albeit slightly most referees I know would normally stop play to allow him to receive attention and restart with a drop ball.
17/09/2007, 11:34 AM
girlinblack

That peno shoot-out question

Hello all,

Not sure if anyone is listening any more, but i had read thru this thread & seeing as it caused a fiery debate before, i thought i would post a little update...

There was a question about the order in which kickers return for penos if the first 11 have already taken one. FIFA have published 07-08 laws & this issue is specifically addressed:

Quote:

Once all eligible players have taken a kick from the penalty mark, the same sequence does not have to be followed as in the first round of kicks.

See page 130: Procedures to determine the winner of a match or home-and-away tie: Kicks from the Penalty Mark, Point 3. The new laws can be downloaded here: http://www.fifa.com/worldfootball/lawsofthegame.html
Note the Questions and Answers have been replaced with a section within the LOTG file: Additional Instructions to Referees, Assistants & Fourth Officials

Hope this helps!!!!
11/10/2007, 3:56 PM
KR's Post

Free kick to my team in our penalty area. I proceed as a goalkeeper a short free kick to my defender who carries the ball forward outside the box. The ref called play back and said the ball has to leave the penalty area. I thought this was just for goal kicks. Am i wrong?
12/10/2007, 6:43 PM
The Ref

Quote:

Originally Posted by tarzan1

Free kick to my team in our penalty area. I proceed as a goalkeeper a short free kick to my defender who carries the ball forward outside the box. The ref called play back and said the ball has to leave the penalty area. I thought this was just for goal kicks. Am i wrong?

The Referee was correct as Law 13 Free kicks states:

"the ball is in play when it is kicked directly beyond the penalty area"

as the ball did not leave the penalty area, the free kick must be retaken, as it was not in play.

The Ref
12/10/2007, 7:49 PM
The Ref

Quote:

Originally Posted by the special 1

any advice on this one 2-1 down get a free kick outside the box in the 90th min..ref tells captain you have to make this one count so captain calls the keeper forward.just as free kick about to be taken ref blows full time..says the keeper took too long(all of bout 10 seconds)

Allowance for time lost is at the discretion of the referee (Law 7) refers. In my opinion the referee would have wiser keeping his own counsel with regards to "making this count".

A referee may blow for full time at any stage after the 90th minute, even if the ball is going in to the goal (Clive Thomas did this in 1978 in a World Cup match Brazil vs Sweden).

However a top referee once gave me a piece of valuable advice when I was starting out refereeing when he said �never blow for full time when a corner is being taken, a team is on the attack or has a free kick in a promising position. Wait for the ball to be cleared or the attack to break down before blowing for full time, if the team score let players kick off and then blow for full time�, a piece of advice I still follow today.
12/10/2007, 7:53 PM
Jock MIB

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Ref

Allowance for time lost is at the discretion of the referee (Law 7) refers. In my opinion the referee would have wiser keeping his own counsel with regards to "making this count".

A referee may blow for full time at any stage after the 90th minute, even if the ball is going in to the goal (Clive Thomas did this in 1978 in a World Cup match Brazil vs Sweden).

However a top referee once gave me a piece of valuable advice when I was starting out refereeing when he said �never blow for full time when a corner is being taken, a team is on the attack or has a free kick in a promising position. Wait for the ball to be cleared or the attack to break down before blowing for full time, if the team score let players kick off and then blow for full time�, a piece of advice I still follow today.

I'm Asumming it wasn't Clive Thomas who gave you that advice :D:D
15/10/2007, 11:18 AM
daz22

just want to clear something up.when taking an indirect freekick does the ball have to move a circumference or can it just be stood on,be moved .in the rules it just states that it has to be played.
15/10/2007, 8:32 PM
The Ref

Quote:

Originally Posted by daz22

just want to clear something up.when taking an indirect freekick does the ball have to move a circumference or can it just be stood on,be moved .in the rules it just states that it has to be played.

The requirement for the ball to move its full cucumference was removed some years ago (it was the same for direct an indirect free kicks). Law 13 now states "the ball is in play when it is kicked and moves" therefore the ball must be kicked (in my opinion standing on the ball is not a kicking action) and the ball must move (simple rules of Physics would seem to say once the ball is kicked the ball it must move!).
16/10/2007, 12:17 PM
daz22

thanks for that.
10/12/2007, 11:09 AM
bald eagle

Quote:

Originally Posted by the special 1

any advice on this one 2-1 down get a free kick outside the box in the 90th min..ref tells captain you have to make this one count so captain calls the keeper forward.just as free kick about to be taken ref blows full time..says the keeper took too long(all of bout 10 seconds)

I read (the refs) reply to this one and of course he is right,but that does'nt
mean that the referee,on this occasion did not behave like an idiot.If every referee refereed to the letter of the laws we would have chaos in every single game. No wonder players/Managers get frustrated.
22/12/2007, 5:35 PM
gunner1

thanks ref

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Ref

Thanks for the support Old Keeper.

Everybody should remember that a referee acts as judge, jury and in the case of red cards Executioner. Of course we get it wrong on occasion and as Old Keeper said the results can be catastrophic. Another thing, if I'm having a bad game, I know it, 22 others on the pitch telling me doesn�t help.

When you have a bad game, there�s no worse feeling in the world, even one error (that changes the course of the game) can sully your mood. In saying that there is no better feeling in the world when you perform well.

I personally don't do it for the money, and contrary to popular belief most referees don't either. The match fee, which seems at first glance quite generous, is no reward for the stick that you put up with week in, week out. When players and managers appreciate you it makes it all worthwhile.

I appreciate everyone taking the time to post their questions to the site and as I said in my introduction I will answer them as best I can. If I don�t explain something and you want clarification, just ask, I will endeavour to give you what your looking for, it is only through dialogue that we can all understand one another�s point of view.

Just for the record, this has not been given the support of the FAI or the Referees Society (I have not sought it, nor do I intend to seek it).

The life of a referee isn�t easy, but maybe this will give us all a better understanding (and a bit of fun along the way)

Talk Soon

The Ref

I personally don't do it for the money, and contrary to popular belief most referees don't either. The match fee, which seems at first glance quite generous, is no reward for the stick that you put up with week in, week out. When players and managers appreciate you it makes it all worthwhile.

just to back you up,i have played football since i was about 7/8 stoped playing at 34 and went into management for 6 years and was vary succesful this will be my 2nd year as a ref.i work for myself so on a saturday i could earn 140/150 euro,but go and ref a match for 40/45 euro! who's in it for the money?? none of us we love the game and without us there would'nt be a game.
Another thing, if I'm having a bad game, I know it, 22 others on the pitch telling me doesn�t help.
great line ,keep up the good work and happy x/mas
30/01/2008, 9:25 AM
EAFC_rdfl

throw ins

During our game in the Roscommon league on Sunday our right back was pulled up for this about 3/4 times:
It was our throw and straight after he threw it the ref blew and gave the throw to the other team because it was taken from the wrong place. After the 1st time we mainly checked wit the ref where all other throws were from but now and again our RF would forget. again he got pulled up for it the same way. But my question is surely its the refs job to bring him back to the right place for the throw rather than let him take it and then turn it over to the other team. Got so annoying losing possession in such a way, wouldnt mind the ref was 20 mins late for kick off!!
30/01/2008, 10:07 PM
The Ref

Quote:

Originally Posted by EAFC_rdfl

During our game in the Roscommon league on Sunday our right back was pulled up for this about 3/4 times:
It was our throw and straight after he threw it the ref blew and gave the throw to the other team because it was taken from the wrong place. After the 1st time we mainly checked wit the ref where all other throws were from but now and again our RF would forget. again he got pulled up for it the same way. But my question is surely its the refs job to bring him back to the right place for the throw rather than let him take it and then turn it over to the other team. Got so annoying losing possession in such a way, wouldnt mind the ref was 20 mins late for kick off!!

Strictly speaking the referee was correct. Law 15 - The Throw in states that A throw-in is awarded:....

� from the point where it crossed the touch line

If the throw is not from taken the correct place the trow is awarded to the opposing team.

The referee is under no obligation to tell the player where to take the throw from, but common sense should alway prevail amd a quick reminder never goes amiss from the referee (if the referee is particular about this). If a player has difficulty remembering where the ball went out, a team-mate should ask.

I normally don't mind a yard here or there, if a player is taking liberties, a quick blast of the whistle followed by an instruction to go back usually works, if they then take the throw I award it then the other way. I haven't awarded a foul throw for a player taking liberties this season yet, so for me, it works.

As for being 20 minutes late, he could have had car trouble? It shouldn't happen, but like everything in life, it does.

The Ref
31/01/2008, 11:28 AM
EAFC_rdfl

thanks Ref. I don't really buy into the car breaking down story, if an away team turned up 20 mins late and said their car broke down I doubt they'd get to play the game. Surely he could have aimed to be at the grounds 30 mins before kick off (and so covering himself if car breaks down etc) rather than planning on turning up a few mins before hand.
31/01/2008, 11:48 AM
The Ref

Quote:

Originally Posted by EAFC_rdfl

thanks Ref. I don't really buy into the car breaking down story, if an away team turned up 20 mins late and said their car broke down I doubt they'd get to play the game. Surely he could have aimed to be at the grounds 30 mins before kick off (and so covering himself if car breaks down etc) rather than planning on turning up a few mins before hand.

I always try and be at the ground at least 30 minutes before a game, 99% of the time I achieve that but it can happen that something slows me down. Being late is unprofessional but it can happen, the referee may not have known the location of the ground, car breakdown, family emergency etc. If the referee was doing this regularly then it would be a problem and the local branch of the referees society and the league should intervene. Lets give the referee the benefit of the doubt on this occasion.

The Ref
02/02/2008, 3:51 PM
renovater

In A peno shoot out player hits the up right comes down hits the back off the keeper, goes into the goal?
is it a goal or is the ball dead once it hits the upright.
you might clear this up for me.
02/02/2008, 6:29 PM
The Ref

Quote:

Originally Posted by renovater

In A peno shoot out player hits the up right comes down hits the back off the keeper, goes into the goal?
is it a goal or is the ball dead once it hits the upright.
you might clear this up for me.

This was first brought to light during the 1986 World Cup in a game between France and Brazil. At that time a penalty was deemed to be completed when the ball was no longer traveling forward. During the penalty shootout, Bellone,a French player hit the post and it rebounded back about two yards and hit Carlos, the Brazil keeper in the back and went in.

The referee allowed the goal, but under the laws of the game at that time was wrong. A lot of media picked up on it, which prompted FIFA to change that particular rule.

Now the under the procedure for deciding the winner of a match with kicks from the penalty mark:

�Unless otherwise stated, the relevant Laws of the Game and international F.A. Board Decisions apply when kicks from the penalty mark are being taken�

which infers from Law 14 The Penalty Kick

�When a penalty kick is taken during the normal course of play, or time has been extended at half-time or full time to allow a penalty kick to be taken or retaken, a goal is awarded if, before passing between the goalposts and under the crossbar the ball touches either or both of the goalposts and/or the crossbar, and/or the goalkeeper�

So yes it is a goal.
26/02/2008, 9:01 PM
Playful Panther

Just wondering ref.... Can a goalkeeper use a kicking tee when taking a goal kick?? I sew it the weekend in our match??
28/02/2008, 9:55 AM
girlinblack

Goal kick on a tee

Hi Playful Panther,

There is nothing specific in the Laws of the Game regarding this. If it were to be mentioned specifically, i would imagine it would be included in Law 16: The Goal Kick. But it is not, so we therefore have to infer the answer from the rest of the laws.

In my opinion the answer lies in Law 4: The Player's Equipment. Here it states: A player may use equipment other than the basic equipment (footwear, shinguards, socks, jerseys with sleeves and shorts) provided that its sole purpose is to protect him physically and it poses no danger to him or any other player.

This law allows people to wear, for example, a knee strapping for their protection, but prohibits them from using extra equipment for example jewellery.

So, the way i would deal with this is the same way i would deal with a player wearing jewellery. Warn him first that it is not allowed & he must correct his equipment. If he continues to use it, i would caution him for Unsporting Behaviour.

I can't imagine any kind of injury a GK would have that would be protected by using a tee... In my opinion, it is an unfair advantage over the other GK & usually, if they are injured they just let a team-mate take their Goal Kicks.

I would be interested to hear the other referee's opinions on this. Since it is not dealt with specifically in the Laws, there may be some differing opinions on it & open discussion is the best way to ensure some consistency. But the above is how i would deal with it in one of my matches.

Hope this helps,
Girl in Black!
28/02/2008, 10:14 AM
Playful Panther

Much obliged girl in black!! Yeah it does seem to be a bit of an unfair advantage. If using it for a goalkick then why not a free kick on the edge of the box!!:confused::confused:
28/02/2008, 2:05 PM
girlinblack

Exactly. If we were to start to allow them for goal kicks, we would not be able to disallow them for other restarts... And if you are allowing it, how do you control it? Like, what constitutes a tee? How big can it be in terms of height, width... Can it be used at any 'dead ball' situation (corners etc etc). The problems could be endless.

Until it is legislated for in the Laws of the Game, i would not allow it's use. The only law that i can see that backs us up in this though is Law 4: The Player's Equipment and so i would be interested to hear from the other referees about it... This will be an interesting discussion at some ref's meetings if some of us are allowing their use!!!

Good luck for the rest of your season!
GirlInBlack
15/03/2008, 7:47 PM
Derek

Offside question

all attacking players onside,
one attacker gets breaks with the ball at his feet,
second player runs with him,
both players run from onside position,

defenders cant catch up so both attackers between last defender and goal keeper, keeper rushes out to block player with the ball, player with the ball passes the ball to he team mate who was to his left and and yard behind the attacker with the ball. is the second attacker who received the ball on or offside?
15/03/2008, 8:12 PM
soccerc

Quote:

Originally Posted by Derek

all attacking players onside,
one attacker gets breaks with the ball at his feet,
second player runs with him,
both players run from onside position,

defenders cant catch up so both attackers between last defender and goal keeper, keeper rushes out to block player with the ball, player with the ball passes the ball to he team mate who was to his left and and yard behind the attacker with the ball. is the second attacker who received the ball on or offside?

Onside
15/03/2008, 8:14 PM
pineapple stu

If you're behind the ball, you can't be offside.
15/03/2008, 8:21 PM
Derek

Quote:

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

If you're behind the ball, you can't be offside.

It's just that it has happened a couple of times this season, under 11 gane against stella maris, exactly as described above and ref blows for offside, maybe some refs dont understand offside.
17/03/2008, 4:11 PM
The Ref

Quote:

Originally Posted by Derek

all attacking players onside,
one attacker gets breaks with the ball at his feet,
second player runs with him,
both players run from onside position,

defenders cant catch up so both attackers between last defender and goal keeper, keeper rushes out to block player with the ball, player with the ball passes the ball to he team mate who was to his left and and yard behind the attacker with the ball. is the second attacker who received the ball on or offside?

From the example you have given, the player is onside.

Reason - To be in an offside position, you must fulfill two conditions:

1) Be closer to your oponents goal-line than the second last opponent

and

2) Be closer the opponents goal-line than the ball.

In simple english, if there are two opponents between you and the goal-line - you are onside and if you are behind the ball you are onside.

Remember the opposition goalkeeper is an opponent.

Schoolboy football is a place where a lot of referees cut their teeth, so to speak, mistakes do happen (I've made my fair share) and we all learn from them. Also angles can be deciving, maybe the referee had a better view and made his/her decision based on what they saw?

Hope this dosen't confuse you more

The Ref
17/03/2008, 8:17 PM
pineapple stu

Quick one from the Bray-UCD game at the weekend - can a free kick be given for dissent? If so, is it direct or indirect?

If a keeper accidentally walks out of his area with the ball in his hand, is it a red or yellow (or neither)? Is the free kick there direct or indirect?
19/03/2008, 12:27 PM
The Ref

Quote:

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Quick one from the Bray-UCD game at the weekend - can a free kick be given for dissent? If so, is it direct or indirect?

Yes a free kick can be given for dissent, it is an indirect free kick as Law 12 states:

An indirect free kick is awarded to the opposing team if a player, in the opinion of the referee:
...
commits any other offence, not previously mentioned in Law 12, for which play is stopped to caution or dismiss a player.

Dissent is a cautionable offence

Quote:

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

If a keeper accidentally walks out of his area with the ball in his hand, is it a red or yellow (or neither)? Is the free kick there direct or indirect?

No card need be shown, and the free kick is direct.
19/03/2008, 12:48 PM
Jock MIB

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Ref

Yes a free kick can be given for dissent, it is an indirect free kick as Law 12 states:

An indirect free kick is awarded to the opposing team if a player, in the opinion of the referee:
...
commits any other offence, not previously mentioned in Law 12, for which play is stopped to caution or dismiss a player.

Dissent is a cautionable offence

No card need be shown, and the free kick is direct.

Just curious i agree with most and have referee seminar in couple of weeks. so if this question comes up i need to know :D why is it a direct free kick? it was accidental hand ball not intentional thought this would make the free kick in direct :D
19/03/2008, 2:15 PM
The Ref

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jock MIB

Just curious i agree with most and have referee seminar in couple of weeks. so if this question comes up i need to know :D why is it a direct free kick? it was accidental hand ball not intentional thought this would make the free kick in direct :D

Law 12 provides that when a player deliberately handles the ball it's a direct free kick. The fact the goalkeeper was unaware of his position on the field of play is irrelevant, the fact that the goalkeeper had the ball in hand when he left the penalty area is the offence (the ball in hand is deliberate the leaving the area is accidential).
19/03/2008, 2:42 PM
Jock MIB

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Ref

Law 12 provides that when a player deliberately handles the ball it's a direct free kick. The fact the goalkeeper was unaware of his position on the field of play is irrelevant, the fact that the goalkeeper had the ball in hand when he left the penalty area is the offence (the ball in hand is deliberate the leaving the area is accidential).

oh just wondering i would have given indirect as he had no intention of deliberating handling the ball outside the aera. now i know, i will know what to do :D bit harsh punishment for that offence though. :D

Thanks the ref
19/03/2008, 3:40 PM
Ask me tom

Would you believe i was sent off for this in a MYC semi-final a few years ago, well i got a second yellow, thought at the time and since it was poor refereeing !
19/03/2008, 9:36 PM
Jock MIB

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ask me tom

Would you believe i was sent off for this in a MYC semi-final a few years ago, well i got a second yellow, thought at the time and since it was poor refereeing !

Thats harsh but if what The Ref says that Rule 12 that you have deliberately handle the ball outside the box , so this is the grey aera , The REF you state rule 12 then if someone handles the ball deliberately then its a bookable offence so why to you waive the rule 12 and dont book the person. unless you say its not deliberate handball which then means its a indirect free kick . Can you not see my confusion:confused::confused:
21/03/2008, 10:27 AM
The Ref

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jock MIB

Thats harsh but if what The Ref says that Rule 12 that you have deliberately handle the ball outside the box , so this is the grey aera , The REF you state rule 12 then if someone handles the ball deliberately then its a bookable offence so why to you waive the rule 12 and dont book the person. unless you say its not deliberate handball which then means its a indirect free kick . Can you not see my confusion:confused::confused:

A hand ball is not a cautionable offence, Unsporting Behaviour is the offence, only if a player deliberately handles the ball to stop an opponent gaining possession should the player be cautioned. (Guide to referees at the back of the law book refers)

This was not the case.

Handball is a direct free kick always. You should speak to your assessor if you have concerns regarding what are direct and indirect free kicks.
21/03/2008, 10:04 PM
Jock MIB

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Ref

A hand ball is not a cautionable offence, Unsporting Behaviour is the offence, only if a player deliberately handles the ball to stop an opponent gaining possession should the player be cautioned. (Guide to referees at the back of the law book refers)

This was not the case.

Handball is a direct free kick always. You should speak to your assessor if you have concerns regarding what are direct and indirect free kicks.

Ok i agree but the guide actually says a deliberate handball NORMALLY is a direct free kick not ALWAYS different interpretation can be used there...

here i am not trying to argue but point out we are given the rules but there is so many grey aera's in it.. take one look at the offside rule just to see that.. and its for ourselves to interpret it.
25/03/2008, 3:05 PM
Innishvilla

Perfect thread to bring up the Mascherano incident at the weekend...

I have no quarrel with his booking for persistent dissent... I think that dissent and bad language is a very serious issue in soccer from grassroots up to senior level.

I think Chelsea's antics last week were contributory to the sending off over the weekend, I would just like to see some element of consistency brought in... I know Mascherano was persistent for his time on the pitch, but there were at least 5 other incidents in the game where players screamed abuse at the referee where no action was taken...

I suppose I'm just wondering what The Ref thinks about it. Any solution he would suggest... What does he think of this idea of only the captain being allowed talk to ref?

It is a tough one, I know people will compare with rugby and it is true the ref gets so much more respect. BUT in rugby a penalty/conceding 3 points or 50 yards in territory is a good way of quieting a player without changing the whole match, very hard to do something similar in soccer...
29/03/2008, 7:15 PM
bossman-tapa

Question: Can a player1 leave the field of play on his own accord, stand in the opps half(still on sidelines), defender plays ball into that half.
Player1 then runs back onto the pitch collects ball, has one-on-one with keeper and scores.
Can player1 be offside even if he is not on the pitch when ball played? or
Does ref have to wave him back on(left of own accord no inj etc)
30/03/2008, 12:15 PM
Jock MIB

Quote:

Originally Posted by bossman-tapa

Question: Can a player1 leave the field of play on his own accord, stand in the opps half(still on sidelines), defender plays ball into that half.
Player1 then runs back onto the pitch collects ball, has one-on-one with keeper and scores.
Can player1 be offside even if he is not on the pitch when ball played? or
Does ref have to wave him back on(left of own accord no inj etc)

Going to try this one before The Ref but probably be wrong and wil be corrected,

Question 1- A player cannot leave and enter the FOP without the referee's permission if A player does it is a Cautionable offence depending on circumstances and would be an indirect free kick to oppposition from where the player entered the field.

Question 2- Same rule he or she cannot leave and enter the field without the referee's permission, so the offside rule is not an issue as the player is off the field, out of the play and is not active but if he or she was to enter the field it would be an indirect free kick from the place the player entered the field and a caution may be given for unsporting behaviour.

I'm positive this is correct but The Ref will clarify im sure

Show 40 post(s) from this thread on one page

All times are GMT. The time now is 11:21 AM.