Just the 33208 in the Aviva:tongue:
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Just the 33208 in the Aviva:tongue:
Cork City v Galway United - 5,031
St Pats v Drogheda United - 5,034
Shels v Derry City - 4,780
Sligo Rovers v Waterford - 3,612
Bohs v Shamrock Rovers - 33,208
Premier Total - 51,665
Premier Average - 10,333
Dundalk v Athlone - 2,600
Kerry v Finn Harps - 810
UCD v Wexford - 318
Treaty v Cobh - 1,256
Longford v Bray 646
First Division Total - 5,630
First Division Average - 1,126
Overall Total - 57,295
Overall Average - 5,729
Obviously the numbers are up due to the game in the Aviva but it makes for great reading.......an average attendance of over 10,000 in the Premier Division :-) How far away are we from that being a regular reality?
The club released a figure of 2,600 to the league and its now on FAI Connect, the fact that its an even figure means they have just estimated, no idea why they didn't release the exact figure as they did v Drogs in Malone Cup and every or most games last season.Quote:
Originally Posted by LTFC
Most I sat with and spoke to said crowd was just under 3k, I'd prob go for 2,800.
Very far considering we have 1 stadium that can hold that many people in the leagueQuote:
Originally Posted by ForeForeToo
10 to 15 years?Quote:
Originally Posted by 2 Year Contract
To have 10+ 10k capacity stadiums that sell out every week?? There’s optimism and then there’s that :) I don’t know if that will happen in the next 50 years but I would love to be wrong on thatQuote:
Originally Posted by ForeForeToo
Good idea for the league would be to open up the Aviva for other clubs who want to give up home advantage for the opening game. Prob only suit Dub clubs, maybe East Coast and Derry (due to fanbase), not sure Cork City would be interested, maybe Derry also not.
Either way, it an obvious massive success today. It beat every Championship Club attendance (Leeds play tomorrow) and incredibly 3 PL clubs this weekend..................
This really is some story.
No club (apart from massive ones where they have to draw a line somewhere) develops a stadium with a capacity that will sell out every week. You develop one with a capacity that is a decent amount over your average, and you then hope to operate at about 75-80% of capacity apart from the odd occasion where it'll be higher. That way you leave room for growth.Quote:
Originally Posted by 2 Year Contract
I know that, I didn’t say they’d sell out every week from the get go. No club is getting average crowds of 7.5-8k a week as it is (75-80% of 10k) so 10k capacity stadiums would be exactly what you’re describing. For a league average of 10k crowds though, grounds of that size would have to obviously be sold out every week. Or even bigger grounds that aren’t sold out. Either way I can’t see the league having 10 clubs in that scenario in the next 50 yearsQuote:
Originally Posted by EatYerGreens
We'll probably never have 10 clubs selling out 10k capacity stadia every week. We just dontl have either the population in total or the population centres/concentrations, for it to happen.Quote:
Originally Posted by 2 Year Contract
Nowhere comparable in Europe has 10 teams attracting over 10,000 a game. Not even much bigger countries liike Sweden, Portugal or Belgium. Even Scotland - with the greatest depth of senior football anywhere in Europe, and 2 teams that are of continent=-wide significnace - only has 6 clubs with an attendance of over 10,000 this year (and one of those barely so). Even Poland, with a population of almost 40m and a huge footballng pedigree, only has 10 teams attracting over 10,000 on average.
I would still arge that we could justify stadia of 8-10,000 in some places around the country (Dublin, Cork, Derry), and 6-8,000 in Sligo, Limerick, Galway and possibly Waterford.
I don't think we are anywhere near the mark either. Having said that it could be possible to have more than a handful of clubs with regular attendances at the 7k or 8k mark in the next 10 to 15 years if the league keeps progressing.Quote:
Originally Posted by 2 Year Contract
There is no reason why many clubs shouldn't be able to attract crowds in excess of 10,000 - there is historical evidence that such crowds are possible. The biggest limitation is ground capacity and quality. Bigger and better grounds would mean higher attendances - which would lead to more funds and the ability to attract better quality players - an ongoing knock-on effect.
If you open up the Aviva regularly like that does it not downgrade the FAI Cup final ?Quote:
Originally Posted by oriel
That's my fear, as great as yesterday was and this is from someone who wasnt there btw, the atmosphere did seem more sterile than the tribalism that comes with a derby in dalier. Now as the league grows and please God facilities improve we may have to accept that with more families attending games (which is 100% what we want) but I don't think it can be understated how much the unique atmosphere at LOI games compared to say rugby or GAA has helped get younger people involved in the LOI.Quote:
Originally Posted by Glen Of Aherlow
Personally I would say no. The cup final having a trophy presentation at the end means it's always going to be an event regardless of any other games being played there. Plenty of countries have national stadiums that have league games played regularly in them (Scotland, France, Germany off the top of my head) it doesn't dampen their cup finals.Quote:
Originally Posted by Glen Of Aherlow
As 'Another Bohemia' says above, the FAI Cup Final need not be downgraded.Quote:
Originally Posted by Glen Of Aherlow
But opening the AVIVA more regularly for LOI games might make it difficult to go on attracting the mighty crowds seen the other day. For it seems to me that a big part of the attraction there must have come from the sense of it being an "event" or "occasion" etc. And more such events may dilute interest (novelty etc).
You get that in the IL, where when the League Cup (esp) and Irish Cup Finals are properly promoted and marketed, they can attract good crowds to Windsor, even when Linfield aren't involved. Whereas you wouldn't ever get that for IL games, simply because Linfield stage 20-odd home games there each season, so the ground has no novelty factor i.e. just another game.
EDIT: The other thing about the FAI Cup Final is that you're always liable to get different clubs participating than just the big Dublin clubs - see Drogs v Derry last year.
None of those are comparable to the LOI though, in that the ticket demand for their cup finals is much higher than ours, and the percentage of neutrals that attend their finals is much less than ours too. Fans of LOI clubs that play a league game or a cup final in the Aviva will attend regardless, but if neutrals have several opportunities a year to go and watch 2 LOI teams in the Aviva then they’re less likely to attend on every occasion. I agree that the cup finals would still probably be the one most neutrals opt to go to but there’s no doubt it would dilute the cup final crowds to a degreeQuote:
Originally Posted by Another Bohemia
I think the same has been said about moving the FA Cup semi-finals to Wembley - it diluted the Cup final experience to an extent. (And since then, lots of other things have diluted it of course)
An rud is annamh is iontach, as the saying goes.
It depends what you mean by "many" though. The biggest limitation to us having more than just a handful of clubs capable of average crowds in excess of 10,000 longer term is probably population. Outside of Dublin and Cork at a push, we just don't have the size of places that could support multiple clubs attracting 10,000+ crowds regardless of their form (because they can't all be successful at the same time). Though fast growing we're still a small country with small population concentrations beyond Dublin.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jolly Red Giant
Nahhh. Sure it'll be being played at a full Croke Park by thenQuote:
Originally Posted by Glen Of Aherlow
Heard or read a piece pre-season that Cork City were looking into the possibilities of arranging a league fixture in Pairc Ui Chaoimh as part of their ideas for fund raising!
If the cork v Celtic rumours are true maybe that's how non Dublin clubs make their big pay day although id imagine the fees for bringing say man united to the Aviva would take a huge chunk from your profitQuote:
Originally Posted by nr637
I think the crux of your argument though is that neutrals (or at least a certain cohort of them) are only going to the cup final because it's their only opportunity to see LoI teams in the Aviva. I don't believe that. The cup final attendances have always been better attended than league games even before they were in the Aviva. Neutrals enjoy the cup final because there is silverware at stake. I think further league games would be at risk of cannibalizing themselves if they because regularly played at the Aviva but cup final attendances would remain pretty good (participants depending e.g. if you got a UCD vs Wexford final it probably would be poorly attended but not necessarily because of neutrals).Quote:
Originally Posted by 2 Year Contract
Makes sense for any club near a big stadium to utilise an opportunity. Treaty have Thomond Park on their doorstep. John Delaney previously scuppered an opportunity for Limerick FC.Quote:
Originally Posted by nr637
Cork and Treaty could work together for a 4 team tournament where they would take on two European giants without taking on each other.
I think so but open to being proven incorrect. I think one off games will attract a buzz.Quote:
Originally Posted by Glen Of Aherlow
[QUOTE=legendz;2216031]Makes sense for any club near a big stadium to utilise an opportunity. Treaty have Thomond Park on their doorstep. John Delaney previously scuppered an opportunity for Limerick FC.
Cork and Treaty could work together for a 4 team tournament where they would take on two European giants without taking on each other.
Hard to make it pay - elite clubs can get fees in the 7 figures in other countries. The next level down would still be looking for significant 6 figure sums (thats your Premier League excluding L, MU, MC, CH, A, T).
You seem fixated on town or city populations as a basis for club growth etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by EatYerGreens
But if a town of 25k has no interest in the game, then it may not ever support (literally and figuratively) a successful professional club, at least in the short-to-mid term. While much smaller places like Sligo and Ballybofey can.
And to take two examples of the latter from further afield, Burnley is a town of 100k people, close to many bigger, sometimes massive clubs, yet it can generate regular crowds of 20k+ to sustain a club in the top two tiers of the most competitive league(s) in Europe. Ditto Villareal, attracting regular crowds of 25k in a town of 50k, while reaching a CL semi-final and winning the EL (twice?).
While this talk of 10 clubs drawing regular 10k crowds also misses the point that well-run clubs attracting regular 5k crowds can still sustain f-t football, while 2.5k should be enough for p-t football.
I understand the excitement of new season, Shams in Europe and 35k in the AVIVA etc, and it's definitely a fantastic start with plenty to build on. But ROI football shouldn't lose sight of the essentials, namely that you build the game via existing clubs which show potential and ambition etc, one step at a time, and from the centre outwards.
Rather than forever looking to regions/counties/towns/provinces etc which have never had much interest in football, planting your magic beans there and hoping they'll grow overnight.
You seem fixated on looking to argue against whatever I say - no matter how irrelevant to the point I made.Quote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
Why have you dragged this onto your usual hobby horse of lecturing everyone about where clubs should or shouldn't expand? That has absolutely nothing to do with what I said. You have completely mis-read my post, which made no mention of new clubs etc (& instead listed places where we have existing clubs). The point is that the populations in the places where we have EXISTING, long-established LOI clubs are just far too small to enable the EXISTING teams there to attract average crowds of over 10,000. Start and end of it.Quote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
That is the point. Not wangin on about 'magic beans' etc :rolleyes:
Don't be so precious, it's a debating forum.Quote:
Originally Posted by EatYerGreens
This thread is about Attendances. And you made your usual simplistic reference to populations: "We just dontl have either the population in total or the population centres/concentrations" [to attract 10k crowds across the board etc].Quote:
Originally Posted by EatYerGreens
My point is that such a correlation is misleading, since a large population doesn't guarantee a large support, nor a small population a small one. Which the present LOI (and leagues elsewhere) bears out amply.
As for existing clubs, there is no good reason why several shouldn't be aspiring towards* 10k averages in time, in Dublin at least. You know, harnessing some of the enthusiasm of the 35k in the Aviva the other day.
* - I say "towards", since only you mentioned "average crowds of over 10,000"
Celtic at Paric Ui Chaoimh in July.
LOI Talk can exclusively report that Cork City are set to play a friendly against Scottish Premiership leaders Celtic at Páirc Uí Chaoimh, the home of Cork GAA.
Be interested to see how much that’d make Cork once you take out the cost of the rental of Pairc Ui Chaoimh and the fee to get Celtic (first team) over. Celtic played a Premier League side in Wolves at the Aviva in 2023 and it only drew a crowd of 28k. Wolves obviously aren’t a big draw but judging by that crowd Celtic don’t seem to be as big a draw as they were in years gone by so I wouldn’t be anticipating anything close to PUC's 45k capacityQuote:
Originally Posted by nr637
Be very interestingly to know when this game is on, as Celtic have a champions league qualifier to play this summer and are going on a tour to America.Quote:
Originally Posted by 2 Year Contract
I wouldn't be surprised if this is Celtic B team that play in lower scotish leagues, that plays Cork
There's no way they've booked PUC for a Celtic B team
I think a season opener at the Aviva (like last Sunday) is the way to go. How many fans would a St Pats v Shels game attract? - or should it always be Bohs v Rovers?
Booked it for Celtic. Celtic are under no obligation to send the starting 11Quote:
Originally Posted by Buckett
Considering they will be in America for a few weeks pre season and a champions league qualifier to play in pre season, I cannot see anything other than a bunch of kids and 1 or 2 lads coming back from injury
I know a while back we played Celtic in preseason maybe a decade ago they only sent a reserve team to Longford ! But in the mid 80s when we played them they had a full first team! Such a difference!Quote:
Originally Posted by dundalkfc10
I'd be very surprised if it didn't come up during negotiations. These clubs have a few teams they could send for different fees, Celtic Legends, Celtic XI, Celtic B, Celtic.Quote:
Originally Posted by dundalkfc10
I think we're at the stage where "Whatever" is the only appropriate response to your approach of dragging multiple discussions down a dark alley to give them a beating by tedium :DQuote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
So yeah. Whatever :cool:
Will be interesting to see what the ticket prices for this are, and what the appetite of the Irish public is for it.Quote:
Originally Posted by nr637
Are Celtic still a box-office draw here? I can't recall when the games were, and I could be wrong, bit from memory the last few times they played here seemed to a bit of a damp squib really? I'm not sure that whether they bring a full team or not would even be the deciding factor in it being a success. So will be interesting to see how it goes.
I'd be very surprised if it could draw over 30,000. But then, that's also what people thought about Bohs-Rovers when announced. So there's probably only one way to find out!Quote:
Originally Posted by Straightstory
30k when they played Wolves in Lansdowne a couple of years ago.Quote:
Originally Posted by EatYerGreens
I do feel like it's their support is dying out a little bit over here, as is appetite for friendlies against them.
Maybe it's still worth a punt for Cork?