Let's see how the rest of the group goes. Maybe we'll get 4-6 points from Finland who are in as bad a condition as we are. Then a draw at Wembley :)
Let's see how the rest of the group goes. Maybe we'll get 4-6 points from Finland who are in as bad a condition as we are. Then a draw at Wembley :)
Finland will be interesting as they are surely weaker than when we played then last time out, Pukki isn't the player he was at the very least, they seemed well coached at the time, but I don't even know if it's the same coach.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
The Finland manager has been in place for eight years. Their strength is that consistency of style and knowledge of structure rather than the quality of the playing pool.
Well yeah, but that should be enough to retain our place in League B, which is about the limit of our aspirations for now. I don't think anyone is making us out to be world beaters. What we should be at the moment is 1) capable of staying in League B - top 28 in Europe and 2) capable of mounting a realistic challenge for Euros qualification - top 24 in Europe. We haven't a prayer of making the World Cup - top 16 in Europe - but by 2027 we should be in a position where we should be aiming to qualify by right for Euro 2028.Quote:
Originally Posted by Acornvilla
In recent years we have barely clung on to League B status at the expense of two very poor sides - Armenia and Bulgaria and we have been miles off qualification for a finals, gone after a couple of games every time and no playoffs to fall back on either. It's been awful. So the target now is to get back to where we should be which is competitive at our own level, and then see where we can go from there.
I think we can stay in B too, and wouldn't be surprised if we take 4-6 points off Finland, but there's a matter of a playoff to navigate thereafter which I wouldn't take for granted, hopefully best case scenario is we beat Finland twice and get someone we can beat in a playoff, and then things feel better, a bad playoff loss would kill any momentum results from Finland would bring.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eirambler
I wouldn't be devastated by relegation simply because I'd see it as an opportunity to get a winning run together and guarantee a playoff spot. I'm generally an optimist when it comes to football, but trying to keep my expectations low for now :D
We were dreadful at home. Really stupid careless goal. Was it around same time we lost at home to Lux?Quote:
Originally Posted by Acornvilla
We played well away though. Stevens hit the bar and a minute later they scored after Randolph threw the ball straight to a Finn. Curtis came close to equalising.
A far cry from a comfortable home win under Mick in the early 2000s. Steve Finnan's debut? And a 3-0 away win straight after WC02. Jim Goodwin debut?
If I remember correctly, Matt Doherty was playing wild advanced and there were gaps everywhere, the gaps between full back and Shane Duff/midfield gave them a few openings, I think Kenny tried to just outplay and control the game, the players weren't ready for the change of approach or at least Kenny wasn't ready for Finland to actually be any good, probably both. Then some lad from the Bundesliga came on as a sub and scored a well worked goal.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
O' Dowda was a right winger and Robbie Brady a CM, god be the days :D
I would put Collins in as a defensive midfield player - it would be no harm to try it.
The Collins thing comes up and maybe it could work, but I'm not sure he has it in him. I was chatting to a pal about it a couple of days ago and I kind of talked myself in to thinking that Omobamidele is actually the best footballer of all of the defenders so if someone was going to do it, I'd make it him. He needs to play football at club level and stay fit to actually know what his level is, but I've felt he's our most promising prospect since he first emerged.
I agree - but I also think that we need to see if Collins can do it, because I still think that Omobamidele has a much higher ceiling than Collins as a CB.Quote:
Originally Posted by Acornvilla
Jake O'Brien also decent with the ball at this feet.Quote:
Originally Posted by Acornvilla
I think you can turn a centre back into a full back a lot easier than you can turn one into a midfielder. None of those centre backs have any history of playing midfield that I'm aware of, so I don't see how it works. It's completely different playing with your back to goal at centre back than it is playing in midfield and facing your goal and taking the ball on the half turn consistently.
What's more realistic is centre backs stepping into midfield to fill space out of possession, a lot of our CBs are well able for that. But actually playing the full game in midfield is a completely different and I think unrealistic ask.
I dont understand the idea that Collins would make a good midfielder. Hes an ok passer of the ball but hes never shown an ability to dictate play out from the back. He did well bursting forward for the goal against Ukraine, but thats a one off instance. You'd never compare him to good ball playing center halfs like Rio Ferdinand or John Stones.
In the recent United v Liverpool match Casemiro should how a bad midfielder can be so catastrophic to a team, and he was one of the greatest midfielders in the world at one stage. Moving a lad in there whos never played the position just doesnt make any sense. MON did it with Cyrus Christie and it wasnt good.
To me Lawal is the one to watch over the coming months. If he plays in midfield for Stoke I think he instantly becomes viable for us, but we have to wait and see how he does. Looking at the rest of the u21 squad I do think Moran should be with the seniors already, hes probably not 100% ready but he has something different that we dont have with anyone else. Hodge is fantastic at u21 level and everytime you watch him he oozes class, but he needs to start playing games at club level before we can even consider him.
Another one to watch for me would be Luca Connell. I know its only L1 and I dont like calling up players from there, but I fully believe this will be his last season in that league. Hes a 7 or 8 out of 10 in every game so far this season and I wouldnt be surprised if a Championship team come calling in January. Hes still only 23 and he could still be a big player for us in future.
I'd be tempted to try that as well. It is preferable to play players in their natural positions but with the limitations of the squad and midfield, there is probably a pressing need for playing someone like Collins in midfield. Austria often play Alaba in midfield. It is not unusual to international teams to have to play someone of a certain quality out of position.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jolly Red Giant
If you push Collins into a DM role, he’ll be expected to receive, turn and move the ball under pressure. He’ll have less space and time. He’ll have more of the pitch to cover. And he’ll need to have more positional awareness as the game will be both in front and behind him. I’m with Razor on this one. I don’t think Collins has the feet or agility for midfield. David Alaba. :-)
In our current situation it makes sense but it should have been tested in the friendlies. Still worth considering.Quote:
Originally Posted by legendz
Racking my brains on this… who, since Paul McGrath, have we had with the ability to go from being a centre-half to central mid with consistent competency, excluding centre-halves who played a game here and a game there, or as an experiment?
There was that Rice fella who played a couple of games a few years back.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eminence Grise
You're always more likely to see a (reasonably tall) central midfielder drop back than the other way around. Like Celtic tried with Lawal, but he's a midfielder first and foremost. What we need is to find and bring through better midfielders, not try to convert centre backs into them.
Undeniably a s&$t, but he's not a centre-half.Quote:
Originally Posted by John83
Flippancy aside, is there anyone since Paul McGrath? Or before? It's like we've a fantasy that we're going to have a centre-half each generation who's as good if not better better as a CM. I'm open to correction, but I think we've only had one.
Mark Lawrenson played in midfield for us ~ ~ Lawrenson was an excellent all round player and Liverpool probably would have got a few more good years out of him if he did not get a serious injury that finished him off a bit earlier that might have been.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eminence Grise
Mark Lawrenson would probably make a Top Ten of all the players that played for Ireland, if you counted the ability and level that he played at club level in the criteria.
I'll give you Lawrenson, though I'd wager most would remember him as a defender.
John O'Shea might be the closest we've had to a centre-half who could play midfield, though I think you could make the argument that playing right across the back four, as a DM and a CM he was more akin to a utility player, and better at centre-half anyway.
Still slim pickings from nearly 50 years of football.
Mark Lawrenson played a decent amount for us in midfield ~ ~ He was a top quality player.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eminence Grise
Lawrenson was a cracking good footballerQuote:
Originally Posted by seanfhear
There were a few that I thought could play in midfield and some who did -
I thought the following could have made a decent midfield player -
Phil Bab
Kenny Cunningham
Eoin Hand
Jimmy Holmes
Joey O'Brien (a better midfielder than LB in my opinion)
Frank O'Farrell
David O'Leary
Pat Saward
Sean St. Ledger
And defenders who did play in midfield (a little or a lot)
Mick Martin
Con Martin (Martin played in every position while at Aston Villa - including goalkeeper)
Mick McGrath
Mick Meagan
Johnny Carey
The difference from times past is that Ireland used to produce a lot of very good midfielders - not so much in recent times. Imaging having a midfield of Giles, Haverty, Conway, McGrath (1966), or Giles, Brady, Daly, Heighway (1974) or Brady, Whelan, Houghton, McGrath, Sheedy (1987) or Whelan, Townsend, Keane, McAteer, Sheridan (1995) today and the damage you could do with it.
Rice was a centre half through the ranks at West ham , that's where he played in their 23s. It was with ireland he played midfieldQuote:
Originally Posted by Eminence Grise
Thanks for the trips down memory lane with some of these names, or not, in Rice's case who, as far as I know, hasn't played any consequential senior football as a centre-half, but they only prove the point that started this diversion: we haven't, since Paul McGrath, had a centre-half who was at least equally competent to play in centre midfield, and did so regularly for Ireland. And, rose-tinted glasses off, there's nobody in the current squad who looks remotely like having that capability.
And David Alaba was a midfielder that Bayern converted into a defender. The same as Phillip Lahm.Quote:
Originally Posted by ifk101
In his breakthrough season at West Ham, he started 13 league games at centre back and 4 in midfield.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eminence Grise
Second season, he was moved to midfield…
That's fair id say. I'm hard pushed to see any xentre half we have been good enough to play consistently in the championship as a midfielder and considering we have 4 or 5 of our actual.midfielders w presently who can play at that level then what's the point of converting a centre half if they aren't going to be premier league level?Quote:
Originally Posted by Eminence Grise
I think O'Brien played at centre half against Germany at home under Staunton, and then in midfield in the next game against Cyprus.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jolly Red Giant
Ireland need to find some nugget of gold from a left field option. Are there any prospects in the LoI who can help knit things together at international level?
No.
..
Probably not.
I still reckon the best options at LOI level are Farrugia, Byrne, Duffy, Mandroiu and Forrester and of those, Farrugia and Mandriou are the only one who are an age where there’s growth left.
Farrugia’s performances in Europe were impressive enough that I’d have him on the list of guys who could potentially be our fourth winger.
For me it’s Ogbene, Johnston and McAteer in the squad and in general choosing from Harness, Robinson, O’Dowda, Ebosele, Connolly (if he’s not retiring), Farrugia, Shodipo, Hamilton, Duffy, Omochere, Kerrigan and Moylan. Obviously there’s a lot of considerations involved in terms of level they’re playing at, form, fitness etc. But those are the guys who I think in general, have something about them as wingers.
I do think we’d be better for calling up about 3 players every window with the idea of just seeing how they look and how they do in training and if they look the part. Maybe a winger, a centre midfielder and a full back. Cause realistically they’re all positions where there’s a lack of quality depth.
In midfield, you call up Luca Connell one window, Jack Taylor the next and Connor Ronan the one after.
At full back, you call up Jon Gallagher for one window, Josh Key the next and Danny McNamara the one after.
Out wide, you call up Harness once, Farrugia the next one etc.
That Greece team had players playing in Denmark, Czech Republic, the German second division, Greece, Belgium - and recently enough Cyprus, Saudi and Mexico. I don’t think we can turn our noses up at players playing in the MLS or whatever without giving them a look first
Jamie McGrath and Aberdeen also won their 15th game in 14 competitive matches stretching back all the way to losing to Celtic in the Scottish cup on penos last April. The last time they actually lost a game in 90 minutes was March. I have no idea what's going on there beyond a ridiculously lucky string of winnable games, and I've said before that I don't necessarily think he's a long term solution to anything, but pretty difficult form to ignore, found it very strange he wasn't called up last time out. Gavin Molloy who was a major part of Shels unexpected title tilt has played every minute of every game since signing, so might be someone to unexpectedly become an option in the future if whatever the heck is going on there continues.
Farrugia and Mandroiu are definitely both worth looking at, and it will be very interesting to see how Rovers handle Europe. They were a bit closer to the dominant team you expect them to be this weekend, maybe finally finding form at the right time. Farrugia especially has huge issues staying injury free, otherwise I think he would easily be a Championship player, maybe more. Duffy and Byrne have similar injury issues and aren't the players they were at their peaks as a result. Forrester is a class footballer and someone who could have played at a much higher level with a bit more luck and an easier personal life but his time has passed.
Winning 15 out of 14 is some feat!Quote:
Originally Posted by Acornvilla
I just thanked that without doing the maths ~ ~ I think we need this manager and fast ! ! !Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
15 out of 14 = Outstanding !
The lads broken time and reality Heimer, call him up
I certainly hope that the board have given him, their full support and vote of confidence ~ Tis well deserved !Quote:
Originally Posted by Acornvilla
Marc Wilson played defense and midfield for Portsmouth ( only defense for us)Quote:
Originally Posted by Jolly Red Giant
Thread locked and archived