can't see us beating any team twice with the possible exception of Gibraltar and even there I'd be quite surprised.
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can't see us beating any team twice with the possible exception of Gibraltar and even there I'd be quite surprised.
I'm confused. What does any of this have to do with the 2024/25 Nations League?!
my fault, moved to correct threadQuote:
Originally Posted by Eirambler
It's the harshest draw since WC 82 qual, then in a group with Belgium, Holland, France, but even in that group the top 2 qualified. This group is cursed beyond the Curse of Macha.
It has to be the consequence of delayed Delaney karma, nothing else makes sense.
Delaney must have an FAI themed Voodoo Doll ! !Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
Well Delaney hired Kenny, and Kenny dragged us into this mess with the two poor Nations League campaigns, so in a way this group is sort of Delaney's final gift to Irish supporters.
Benzema has announced his retirement
https://www.instagram.com/p/CmWkqAaI-ly/
Deschamps has extended his contract at France until 2026
https://www.fff.fr/article/9231-didi...u-en-2026.html
Hugo Lloris has also announced his retirement..Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsujin1979
https://m.independent.ie/sport/soccer/international-soccer/france-captain-hugo-lloris-announces-retirement-from-international-football-42273765.html
Can't hurt, though we have to get that far up the pitch first...
France are falling apart. Varane gone now too. That's 4 gone! They're all running scared. They know what's coming at them in March and they want no part of it.
You've suddenly become very confident with this Ireland team.Quote:
Originally Posted by BOOMSHAKALAKA
So is Kenny is good enough to threaten France?
Or is it the likes of Evan Ferguson coming into the team that makes you think we can compete?
If we can compete because of the likes of Ferguson in the team and Kenny still in charge, could it be that the problem up to now was not Kenny but a lack of good players? In which case maybe some were too hard on Kenny because the players at his disposal were not good enough?
Lots to contemplate!
I think the players are going to ignore Kenny from now on. He has been holding them back. It'll be like Paris under Trap. We should win this game, if we lose, it will be because of Kenny's interference. Contemplate that!Quote:
Originally Posted by Razors left peg
BOOMSHAKALAKA!!!
Yeah... that's ridiculous.Quote:
Originally Posted by BOOMSHAKALAKA
That's exactly what the players say to eachother after every Kenny team talk!Quote:
Originally Posted by Razors left peg
Look, this France team were on a massive high in Qatar. They had a great tournament but were demoralised by the final. Coming from that to play Ireland in Dublin on a wet evening in March with 4 players retired so far, including their captain. This is an open goal. Anything less than a win will be very disappointing. Surely even Kenny can't screw this up.
I'm off Kenny myself tbh after the last couple games. I don't trust his decision making but he has been a bit unlucky at times with player availability. Our best performances have been when we've had our best strikers available. Kenny's style of football needs a guy leading the front line properly, when Robinson is the guy we are not at our best.
I am fairly confident that we will show signs of improvement in this campaign because our players are improving, but the idea that it would be because they'll just ignore Kenny is nonsense
In fairness , teams sometimes do have a carry over from a World-Cup / Euros and might ( I said might ) be a bit vulnerable but didn't France have at least 4 big names that did not make the World-Cup ~ It's not the kind of thing ya can bank on anyways.
Kenny will be gone soon. It's time to ignore him and the wasted years under his reign. Unlike what he and his supporters would want everyone to believe, we have the players to compete in this group. We've never gone into a group thinking we have no chance of qualifying in over 40 years. We can beat anyone at home. We can knick a draw away from home. That's always has been the hope no matter who we are drawn against. We can compete against Serbia and Portugal, we can compete against France and Holland. Our position is not coming near the bottom with Azerbaijan or Luxembourg. It's time we all supported our players instead of backing a failed manager. We're going to the Euros!Quote:
Originally Posted by Razors left peg
BOOMSHAKALAKA!!!!
after the retirements:
France’s squad if everyone is fit:
Areola/Maignan
Kounde/Pavard/Gusto
Konate/Saliba
Upamecano/Fofana/Badiashile
T Hernandez/F Mendy
Kante/Rabiot/Fofana/Guendozi
Tchouameni/Pogba/Camavinga/Kamara
Dembele/Coman/Nkunku
Griezmann/Veretout/Cherki
Mbappe/Kolo Muani
Giroud/Thuram/Gouiri
Don't know about you Boom, but i think france might be slight favourites
Ya I am feeling more positive when you see our young players getting time in the Premiership and upper rungs of the Championship ladder. If we could just prize a proper ball playing midfielder from out of nowhere that would be great its the missing ingredient!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Razors left peg
Regardless of injuries/retirements/highs/lows/hangovers Deschamp is an astute manager he'll have them ready for Dublin like he would any other game. We'll be doing well to get a draw and I don't think a draw would tell us a great deal either or should be read into if we do.
Good squad, this one was good as well:Quote:
Originally Posted by elatedscum
Lloris, Sagna, Gallas, Escude (Squillaci 9), Evra, Lassana Diarra, Alou Diarra, Gourcuff (Malouda 87), Anelka, Gignac (Govou 57), Henry.
Subs Not Used: Mandanda, Remy, Sissoko, Benzema.
We beat that team in Paris. If matches were decided by names on a teamsheet then we never would have beaten them or Germany or Holland or Italy or England and so on.
The thing is that people like razor are talking about improvements but what improvements are they hoping for? Improving from some of the worst campaigns in our history? Take a competitive squad, turn them into no hopers, get some moderately improved results and then pretend you're doing a good job? This is all a cod.Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
Kenny's supporters are already pushing the narrative that our players don't belong on the same pitch as the French. Why even tog out for the game, it's over already. Same as the last qualifying group, Kenny said everyone should know we can't compete with Serbia and Portugal. It's pushing expectations to it's lowest to save his own skin and unfortunately he has very vocal support for doing that.
Our squad is not as bad as made out and it wasn't last year or the year before that either. With a worse squad McCarthy nearly qualified us ahead of Denmark and Switzerland. Even with 2 of our worst ever managers; Kenny and Staunton, we got draws against Serbia, Portugal, Germany and a good Czech Republic team.
Don't let the Kenny supporters dictate the narrative. We should be expecting a draw at least at home to a changed French team coming down after the World Cup. A team who've lost to Denmark twice, Croatia, drawn with Bosnia, Austria, Hungary etc all in competitive games in the past 2 years. With a competent manager in charge we'd be targeting second spot in this group. It's sad that a manager and his backers can reduce expectations to aiming for third in a group even before a ball has been kicked.
You've been pushing the narrative of "if you don't think the team can't beat France, you must be a supporter of the manager" since the draw was made
Nonsense. I've been pushing the narrative that we have never gone into a qualifying campaign with no hope for over 40 years and we shouldn't start now.Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsujin1979
Firstly a disclaimer in case it needs to be repeated again. I am not pro-Kenny at this point and would welcome a change in manager.
Improvements to results. I think everyone is on the page that results and performances both need to improve in this campaign - bearing in mind the opposition. You can't just pretend France or Holland are crap and there for the taking. Surely the most realistic objective would be to look for a couple of positive results in the 4 games?Quote:
Originally Posted by BOOMSHAKALAKA
I am not seeing anything of that degree here or on social media. You're like a spanish soap opera the amount of dramatization you bring to everything. Read Kenny's comments on Serbia and Portugal here. Its actually all very reasonable.Quote:
Originally Posted by BOOMSHAKALAKA
https://www.independent.ie/sport/soc...-39838098.html
Don't agree about McCarthy having a worse squad. As I have shared before the playing pool was arguably deeper than from what Kenny had to draw on early on (in part due to covid) and the levels many of the players were playing at was higher during McCarthy's reign. It doesn't do your anti-Kenny arguments any good, in my opinion, not to take a more open-minded, objective look at that post i shared or just take a look at the playing squads and the relative quality over that period of time from McCarthy to Kenny's first year.Quote:
Originally Posted by BOOMSHAKALAKA
What is a realistic outcome for you with this group? Where would you gamble your house on? I think most people would go for third and a few would go for fourth. What Kenny has to do is try to exceed what is the most realistic outcome. Outperform reasonable expectations. Beat the minnows, beat the peers and have a good go at the top two - maybe nick a win and a draw off one of them. I think that would be exceptional and that is what Kenny has basically said.Quote:
Originally Posted by BOOMSHAKALAKA
Quote:
“We just need to pick off big results over the year. We will have to do something extraordinary to finish in the top two and that is our intention. We want to do that.”
Does he believe Ireland can qualify?
“I think we are capable of big performances but we haven’t show it consistently”, replied Kenny. “We have to show we can do it consistently. That’s what we are building towards, that’s what we have to show.”
' I think most people would go for third and a few would go for fourth"Quote:
Originally Posted by SkStu
Those people are losers
I don't care if our group has France Holland Spain and the Harlem globetrotters. We should never settle for 3rd or 4th. Sure we've lost before a ball is kicked if that is the mentally
Where would you bet your house though? That's about establishing what is realistic. Of course we're not settling and will be shooting for higher - thats the core point I have made.
Its easy to say we should be aiming to win this group but you also have to look at the group and its overall context. And then base your assessment on what transpires against that.
my house isn’t one the line, nor my kids lives etc etc etc, that’s silly stuffQuote:
Originally Posted by SkStu
My point is, the people who say we have no hope are the same people that said we had no hope in qualifying for the world cup 2002 with Portugal and holland
Yes, we had better players then, but it was also only 1 automatic place. But guess what we did it, we also qualified for euro 88 and believe me that was a real real long shot
We got to the last 16 of Euro 2016 and I would say the players who were in that final squad weren’t a hell of a lot better then what we have right now
Our biggest problem is our manager, he is the one who started this business of celebrating defeat ( Serbia away etc )
We have gone over the strength of the squads McCarthy and Kenny had numerous times. Kenny had the same squad minus Whelan and then McGoldrick but has had numerous players coming of age during his reign. I'll list them again for you because you continually ignore them. Randolph, Kelleher, Collins, O'Shea, Omobamidele, Cullen (Anderlecht move), Knight, Molumby, Ogbene, Obefami (return), Idah. That's a massive amount of talent and now Ferguson on top of it!Quote:
Originally Posted by SkStu
We should be aiming to qualify. That's what we always have done. Why has that changed? Some Kenny supporters were saying they didn't want to go to Qatar anyway, saying it was better we didn't qualify for Euro 2020/2021? Why? It would have been amazing if we were at these tournaments.
We should be targeting what we've targeted for the past 40 years. Win at home, maybe draw against France, try to draw away against the big teams and then hope they take points off eachother. That is realistic. Teams with far worse players than Ireland have managed it. We came very close to managing it under our previous manager. It's not the impossible task you're making it out to be.
And Kenny's comments about the Serbia and Portugal group were not reasonable:
"With Serbia and Portugal in this group and the spine having been ripped out of the team, and we haven't qualified for the World Cup since 2002, did anyone think that we were favourites to qualify or should qualify?"
Comments of a loser. How dare we think we can qualify ahead of Serbia and Portugal? You're buying into the loser talk, same with his backers. And just to keep in mind, not only did he not compete with Serbia and Portugal, he nearly had us finishing bottom of the group. Same with his nations league performances.
You are bang on here. We are beaten in this group before it has even began. We would never have achieved anything if this attitude was around in the past. We've always been about punching above our weight. Not only has Kenny got us punching below our weight but he has a whole host of supporters cheering him on as he does it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Diggs246
A few different issues in there. Its not really that silly. Firstly, you have to put a stake in the ground in terms of realism. You cant just blithely state "we should be looking to qualify" without applying a dose of realism to the statement. Otherwise you're living in la-la land. That is what Kenny - and many others before him in the recent past - have done. People saying we have no hope is one thing - but Kenny doesnt say those things. I've provided a few quotes in those articles i linked to above. Its a blend of ambitious but practicality too. He just comments on the strengths of the teams we are pitted against. Its not a crime - managers do it week in, week out - and its not loser mentality.Quote:
Originally Posted by Diggs246
Using the 2002 WC campaign as an example of how we should be able to compete with the big nations is just wishful thinking. That team had the best captain in World Football in Roy Keane, Robbie Keane our greatest ever goalscorer, Damien Duff and just massive experience all over the pitch.
We have a young upwardly mobile squad with a few players that might actually have a chance go onto be world class in Bazunu, Collins and Ferguson. Success for me in this group is being competitive in every game and giving a good account of ourselves. I do not think its realistic to EXPECT to beat France or Holland... but I do have a sneaky suspicion that if we played to the best of our ability throughout the group we could push Holland. They are not the dutch of the 90s or early 2000s and the US pushed them in the World Cup. Having said that, based on our most recent history we realistically shouldnt even expect to beat Greece.
To me this campaign is all about can our players take a big step forward. Ferguson, Idah, Collins, Parrott, Obafemi, Molumby, Connolly, Omobamidele, Bazunu, Smallbone, Coventry and Knight. All players that were eligible for the last u21 campaign (and some that still are for next). IF these players all kick on massively in their careers we have the potential to be a very very good team who could compete with most, we hoped they would in the last group but that was definitely wishful thinking based on how young they were, and still are.
So yeah I am positive moving forward that there will be improvements overall, but I dont think these improvements lead directly to an expectation that we absolutely will top the group. And I definitely dont think we could top the group inspite of who the manager is. If we are to perform at our best Steven Kenny will have to take just as big a step forward as the players I mentioned above, I dont believe at the moment he is capable of that so this could very well be another development group where we have players that that gain a lot of experience, are good in some one off games, but ultimately its the next manager and next qualifying campaign before we are really and truely in the mix to qualify.
Winner's mentality and aiming high is great. Love it. We'll need it.
But the reality is that we don't have enough quality to expect to finish top two. I expect us to give it a good lash. I think we will raise our game, and be competitive, for a while. We might pull off a shock result somewhere.
We've only taken four points off a genuine European heavyweight twice in my lifetime; Holland in 2000/01 and Germany in 2014/5, and both involved huge slices of luck. We haven't taken six points from a 4th seed since Macedonia in 2011. We'll need to do both to qualify.
That's going to be incredibly difficult for this squad. We have no established elite-level players. We have some solid, effective pros who are comfortable at this level (Egan, Cullen, Doherty) and some cracking young players who could play at elite level, given time (Bazunu, Kelleher, Collins, Ferguson).
But we're relying on others who haven't played regular first-team football for years; and some raw young lads who are still finding their way in the game, and will need to significantly improve if they're going to amount to anything above 'Championship journeyman.'
In the wider squad, and at LWB, we have some completely empty shirts, enigmas, and utter liabilities, particularly amongst our midfield and forward options. We have several sicknotes, and some old warriors who, unfortunately, are done at this level.
Greece are not going to be looking at our squad and fearing us, regardless of who's in charge by the time we play them.
Kenny's management is a problem, at this stage. But it's not THE problem. With the standard of players we have, a hell of a lot will have to go right for us, including France and Holland to have complete meltdowns, refereeing decisions going our way, parking the bus effectively away from home when we're in a positive position, other teams doing us a favour, our best players staying fit, young lads kicking on to another level, etc, if we're going to qualify. It could happen, but I wouldn't be betting any money on it, let alone car, house, cats, etc.
Actually when it comes to top tier Nations. France and Holland are meltdown specialistsQuote:
Originally Posted by Supreme feet
They have all the talent in the eor6 but when things don't go their way... Lets be fair they are both weak minded team's
I wish we were weak minded enough to be making World Cup finalsQuote:
Originally Posted by Diggs246
Weak minded enough to go through their previous WC qualifying groups with only a single game lost between them and a combined GD of 40. But sure we will sow it in to them and they won't know what hit them.
So should we give up v France ? Or should we fight with all our might? And please don't say be realistic, football is the one sport were the underdog often wins.Quote:
Originally Posted by ontheotherhand
Argentina went on to win the world cup, but Saudi Arabia didn't know that would happen. They just played them 11 v 11 and beat them fair and square.
No one is saying that we should give up Diggs. I know I'm just saying I want us to play well and see what happens, I just think it's too extreme to say we should expect to beat them. You might not like using the word realistic, but there's no point in being delusional either.
Bottom line for me is that if our players play to the best of their ability and France have an off night then of course there's the possibility we could get a result, and that's why we all watch and support the team.
Expectation vs Hope are two very different things.
Give up? Who said that? I was responding to your claim that France and Holland were weak minded. You can have a balanced view of our chances without wanting the team to throw in the towel Diggs. Your optimism is great but let's not pretend these two aren't miles ahead of us. We need the underdog mentality! And it doesn't matter what we think anyway. If I think we will likely lose against France, Josh Cullen isn't going to read my post here and decide to go on the sauce.Quote:
Originally Posted by Diggs246
Saudi Arabia did really well against Argentina....but that was about it.
Define coming of age. State how that list of players had or has come of age from mid 2020 to 2022. You could say that 2022 saw a “coming of age” for Collins, O’Shea, Obafemi, Molumby and Ogbene. That’s late enough in the Kenny era. Cullen was 2021. The Norwich duo and Kelleher are still in the largely unproven category and Knight has had a rocky 6-12 months and seems to divide opinion here. It’s a massive amount of just potential, still, and a very high ceiling hopefully - with the exception of Cullen, Collins and O’Shea. There’s clearly a good dose of talent that you can see in the squad there now. Kenny’s hand is definitely and definitively stronger now than at any time previously in his tenure. Expectations have rightly shifted significantly in the last half season as a result.Quote:
Originally Posted by BOOMSHAKALAKA
Has it changed? You think we’re not aiming to (and some fans don’t even want to) qualify? That’s bizarre. Everything after that is made up dramatics and doesn’t warrant a real response. Certainly nothing on here or a prevailing sentiment on social media to back that up. Maybe a couple of weirdos you know.Quote:
Originally Posted by BOOMSHAKALAKA
It’s not impossible. Anything is possible. Sure didn’t I say in my post that there’s the expectation to take some points off the 4 games? But, while anything is possible, you have to be realistic too. Thinking we’ll take 4 points at home and 2 away against France and Holland and setting that as a benchmark expectation is possible but is it realistic? Is it fair to Kenny and the players? Personally I think you’re realistically expecting 4-5 points off those 4 games and anything more has to be seen as a bonus. I’d be looking for 6 (minimum 4) off Greece and obviously unblemished against Gibraltar. Probably not enough to qualify but not a bad outcome in a group containing the World Cup runner-up and a quarter finalist from a couple months before, like. Go to France or Holland and tell their fans how you think it’ll go, what you’re expecting, and they’ll just smile and pat you on your little pixie head.Quote:
Originally Posted by BOOMSHAKALAKA
Do you have a source for that quote? I’d like to see it in context before I can really offer a proper opinion/response.Quote:
Originally Posted by BOOMSHAKALAKA