Thread has seriously gone ta fuq lately!!:mad:
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Thread has seriously gone ta fuq lately!!:mad:
Well there is no denying that attendances are well down the last few months.Quote:
Originally Posted by ToberonaTornado
When season restarts towards end of next month max capacity will be 500 fans so I dont think too many fans will be left out unless you follow one of the bigger clubs!Quote:
Originally Posted by ger121
A few clubs will have a conundrum when it comes to season tickets holders if ST’s are to be still valid.Quote:
Originally Posted by Martinho II
https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/0620/11...irus-weddings/
I wouldn’t be surprised if something similar affects our games. The players , coaches etc could be part of the 500.
I imagine the volunteers ie the security would also have to count towards it also.Quote:
Originally Posted by D24Saint
Eamonn Sweeney has a back page feature on LOI in today's Sun Indo, he is comparing crowds to other sports in Ireland, saying we should be thankful for what we have, but nonetheless seems to be having a dig at LOI bigger games v these Sports. He mentions Kilbeggan races crowd of 3,770 was bigger than the avg in LOI last season (2,159) and in same comparison that Rovers being best supported (or Shams as he says) have a lower avg than this. There were other races listed like Tramore with 8500 for a summer meeting.
Now he does admit but leaves it to the every last part that he loves the LOI, I just think some of the comments are misleading.
For example, for the race meetings he lists like Galway, Listowel, are these not more festivals really, and marketed as a holiday week and primarily low frequent held events? Yes I get the fact the LOI is not brilliantly supported, but at same time I was disappointed he didn't reinforce this point when comparing the other sports he listed, like the Connaught GAA QF (8k) - was less than the big matches at Tallaght, he listed Rovers v Bohs at 7k but didn't list Rovers v Dundalk this season at 7.5k.
We all know GAA is better supported, but these are 4-5 max big games a year- possibly less for most counties, LOI is 40 weeks, and I just don't think he made that point fairly that from this group, we are probably the most consistent in attending sport in Ireland.
The racing comparison which is primarily a gambling sport is surely more on the festival ticket and must get huge govt support compared to LOI football.
Interested on what others think if they read the article.
There's no point listing the reasons why people should attend LOI matches to people on this forum, it's just preaching to the choir.
It's unfair to compare crowds with the likes of the Galway Races, which is rag-week for adults and not many actual regular race-going punters.
For non-LOI fans, I think they just look at it as the amateur run competition that it is. Very little media exposure, no household names, looks terrible on tv(apart from maybe Tallaght), poor facilities, there's always some negative story about the league, like unpaid players or match fixing allegations.
It needs a LOT of investment and a cultural change.
Comparing the LOI to horse racing crowds is misleading for example I was a member in Naas racecousre a few year back and can speak to my experiences. The main race day of the year is the lawlors grade 1 in January it always attracts a huge crowd compared to their usual turnout a few thousand at least. Their normal turnout would be in the low hundreds at best. Its a bit like him singling out the biggest games of our season if it suited him.
Nonsense article. Can't compare racing and LOI ffs with the government funding HRI get, betting levies and media rights. They don't need crowds at all - COVID doesn't affect them the way it does other sports, hence they're getting in as many meetings (with zero attendance) as they can since lockdown was lifted.
There have always been plenty of lower level race meetings with a man and a dog at them. On the other end of the scale, the crowds at the €80+ million Curragh have been shocking given the facilities and highest level of racing on offer (they hid the attendance figures last year it was that bad on Guineas weekend).
Anyway isn't Sweeney a Sligo Rovers fan? Why is he using his column to have a cut at the LOI. We all know the faculties are rubbish and the crowds are terrible overall. What's his point? Everyone in Sligo unsurprisingly seems happy to bin this season!
An article having a go at the LOI in a national paper is preaching to the converted. The public love being told how **** the league is , it reinforces their negative view.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Lilywhites
All the more reason to do things properly, not flap about and have our own league members provide a heap of mud to sling....on top of FAI scandals!!Quote:
Originally Posted by D24Saint
i wouldn’t say he’s always having a cut and has plenty of articles praising the league. This weeks article is a load of tripe all the same.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Lilywhites
If mud is being slung from clubs or at clubs would be subjective. If any business was forced to reopen tomorrow without regard that they made money or not wouldn’t be inconceivable.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nesta99
I was reading last night, the article took a lot of flax from LOI fans on twitter, some comments which were even 'liked' by Dan McD, his colleague !
Another angle I got, and this is sometimes a comment from fans who clubs are not having good seasons 'well its not a great standard this year' he didnt say this but I got a feeling it was in his thoughts.
Comparing racing attendances, sorry, mostly summer festivals v LOI indeed, scrapping the barrel with that.
Well that is true, I have enjoyed reading his LOI articles before, more reason why I was disappointed in this one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nah Nah Nah Nah
He lives in Cork, I don’t think he has been at many Rovers games in the last few years.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Lilywhites
You could turn Sweeney's "argument" on its head and say the highest attendances (7-8k) at Turner's Cross and Tallaght in recent seasons are just a wee bit shy of the EPL, vis-a-vis Bournemouth (10-11k, is it?).
Does ES even go to loi matches any more? The book he had in mid 90s about Sligo Rovers I thought was a superb book imo!
I was really thinking generally with mess after mess and aterix's all over league tables in the past. I understand though why you might think I was being specific to current circumstances.Quote:
Originally Posted by D24Saint
I agree on one level about preserving a business ie a club. But such a business in LoI is not in isolation either, a part of a collective. While things are changing daily but if Sligo were top of the heap would they have a different argument on the resumption of the league?
I cant think of a properly suitable example but to take a punt - If Tesco stores were to reopen but 2 or 3 said nope, there would be a kickback and consequences for those specific stores...I know its a ****e example.
When SRFC II were to join the 2nd tier its was an issue that the FAI were not following the majority consensus. The resumption of the league on whatever basis should also be based on a majority bases no? Especially when there are financial assistance packages on the table.
I looks like a dose of opportunism to avoid a relegation battle as much as it is a business decision - maybe one and the asme.
Replace Tesco with Starbucks or McDonalds franchise holders and the point stands up. They'd pull the franchise and sell it on if branches refused to open. Problem for us is there's nobody daft enough to buy in to replace a LoI team.
Thursday night games. Any UCD and Dundalk fans on here would care to comment on the advantages and drawbacks of having games on that night. I suppose one reason for UCD was to try and get the country students before they went home. Do you think it gave an extra edge for the home side considering the part-time nature of some clubs. Effect on away fans numbers etc.
Also was Thursday night games ended before the summer season came in?
The obvious one is that less people headed to the Lilywhite Lounge on Thursdays and those that did stayed for less time on a school night. It was even more difficult for away fans to travel. The upside is that there was damn all else on on a Thursday so no going head to head with the horse racing often. There may have been LoI fans at DkIT that would only be able to attend on Thursdays but there isnt any concrete stats to show any trends.
Thursdays really became just a habit for to get in a game in Oriel. I think most of the Thursday night match era was during the winter schedule so different in general and playing under floodlights. There are likely more advantage if any, playing on Fridays. One of the reasons for Thursday night games is that it meant an extra night takings in the Lounge with 21st birthdays etc held there. An important source of income at the time over a season - say roughly Spetember to May the additional night of leasing the lounge would be €30k annually at a conservative €1K in bar takings and rental. So a bit horses for courses.
A good bit of all of this was when we were in the 1st Division so again not easy to compare in terms of attendances and away crowds.
UCD tried it in 2001
Lasted half a season before being ditched.
I think that, in addition to not having any impact, it made training awkward because every week your match was on a different day, so training schedules would be all over the place
Tis a while back now, but I think away numbers were down alright.
Surprised at UCD being only half season, had taught longer. Understand the routine aspect, but with full-time players this may not be such a big hindrance.
The point of not clashing with anything i think is important. Really don't understand why the games are not spread out by the Dublin clubs over the weekend even. Would there be say 200 LoI fans in the Dublin area who would take in an extra game?
That's probably the wrong way to look at it though. If Friday night being LoI night (by and large) creates an identity for the league as a whole, that's more valuable to clubs than the chance of 200 fans taking in an extra game over the weekend (which might be 70 at each game in Dublin for example)
Also, if you have games spread out across an entire weekend, you're increasing the chance of clashing with something, not decreasing it. So there's no point playing at 3pm on Saturday just to get 70 floaters because you'll lose hundreds to the vidiprinter.
Cork Tom became a regular at Oriel ParkQuote:
Originally Posted by wonder88
No sure if that is an advantage or a drawback
Actually I think the first time I saw Tom at a game in Galway was a midweek fixture in early July. Big crowd as well against Cork, good away support. Lovely evening, kids off school would have contributed in getting the floaters to come I suppose. Could clubs maybe try Thursdays during July/August.
I don't think afternoon games would be worth switching for.
p.s. Personal opinion I think Galway are missing on not playing on Saturday. Seems Sligo are happy with that time.
Yeah Saturday certainly suits us better with so many working away. Although with the insistence of so many Monday games early on we tend to need to move a few. Would have thought it wouldsuit Galway as well as. Connacht tend to have a good few Friday games.
Derry City v Sligo Rovers - 0
Dundalk v St Pats - 0
Tough night for the attendance stats..
Personally speaking, I was not a fan of Thurs night games, it was for FD period mostly, but also a fair few seasons in PD and a lot in the 94/95 surprise winning season. I lived in Dublin for a good few years during these Thurs night years, 94-96, and hated it, so awkward getting to games, it def alienated a lot of our support base as only really suited those living and working in the town. No attraction for away fans either to travel on a Thursday.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nesta99
That was true at the time, Lilywhite lounge kept free for 21st parties etc, club were not in good financial state, and needed every penny, loads of comments on orielweb at the time, joking if we were a football club that host 21st's or a 21st venue that also hosts football games.
I think on promotion to PD for 2009 season, it was a directive I think to change to either Fri or Sat** so thankfully Thursday was then removed and we never went back to it.
**I also remember some FD games in 2000/01 FD played on Sat nights, better attended I think at the time.
Then again, back in the day will many on here remember these kick off times up to early 90's?
Oriel, Tolka, Dalymount - and later Milltown from 85 I think, games at 3.30 on a Sunday. What a routine we had those days, forced to go to mass, the big match at 1.15, sunday dinner at 2, then head to oriel, happy days !!!!
All other grounds, 3.30 up to end of Oct, then 2.30, then 2.15 in Dec and Jan !
I think in the 01/02 season when we were both in the top flight I think we played ye on a Thurs night if my memory serves me right? Yeah could never take to it tbhQuote:
Originally Posted by oriel
Yes Dundalk played in PD in 01/02, crazy season as won the FAI Cup and got relegated only one year after getting promoted as FD winners.
Not long after in 2003, that was the lowest ever finishing place by Dundalk, 3rd last in the FD, I'd say the crowds towards the end of that season were in the low hundreds.
Thurs night's pretty depressing times back then.
I wasnt fussed on Thursday nights myself bar when still at school and boarders were allowed out to go to a match. When games switched to Sunday afternoons there wasnt a significant jump in attendances and similar kind of reasons were given where students and people living away from town were on their way home, Sundays being family days etc. Any excuse really.
Attendances in the 90s were generally poor even in comparison to a decade ago and some 1st Div seasons. 2002 Cup Final saw a bit of an upturn in younger support. Night time games under the lights always had a better atmosphere and Oriel didnt seem so sparse and open.
I do remember the debates on where the clubs priorities were on the use of the Lilywhite Lounge but to give some idea of the need for the revenue to be maximised - in 2001/02 the Supporters Club that oversaw the running of the bar transfered just over £80k to the club, covered a number of pressing bills, and paid players wages occasionally that season. (Some of the wages paid would be eyewatering today!).
The occasional loss of a weekend night would have been ok but for a full season it would have left a big hole in finances. People spent like mad at the vairous parties that were held especially 21st and 50th birthday do's. I always found it a bit strange but Sunday afternoons were often booked for post christening sessions also. So there could be 4 good days of trade from a Thursday match to the regular Sunday night punters (+christening before). It really was just pragmatic at the time. There was the fear also of going against Dundalk Stadium on Fridays when it was refurbished. Sunday's only work really for family days imo and a nice June day against UCD for example helped boost a crowd.
I remember been in Oriel a few time in the early 00's for games, was working in a hotel bar then so Thursday was a lot easier to get off than a friday or saturdayQuote:
Originally Posted by Nesta99
You'd really miss the attendance threads, especially on a Saturday morning catching up on what happened around the league on a Friday night.
Not to mention the inevitable debates/rowsQuote:
Originally Posted by boynemunich
"What do you mean 2,500, when the Main Stand only holds 1,000 and was half empty ?!"
"There was more than that in the Away End. Sure we brought 3 buses, and I counted at least 10 car loads at the Applegreen on the way".
* Someone admits they were so bored during the game that they counted everyone who was at the Carlisle Grounds *
* Someone posts a grainy photograph of a stand at the RSC to prove/disprove how many were in it *
It should be a mandatory requirement of licensing that clubs publish accurate attendance figures for each game.
It is a requirement, AFAIK, that they "provide" such figures - just not to us!Quote:
Originally Posted by EatYerGreens
Hahahaha, all of this, yes!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by EatYerGreens
Hence the suggestion that they should be required to publish the figures.Quote:
Originally Posted by littlebray