Brazilenesqxe shot from Whelan . With a bit more experience the boy has a chance !
Brazilenesqxe shot from Whelan . With a bit more experience the boy has a chance !
Another 1-1. The national scoreline.
Two more of those and a win in Georgia would probably do for us though.
Decent performance I thought.
We're a pretty limited team but we're good at limiting the other team too. Switzerland looked better in midfield for a lot of it I thought, but that didn't translate into too many real chances for them - lots of pressure, but some great defending, last-ditch defending at times.
Once they scored I thought that was it, but the spirit in the camp kept them going to get an equaliser.
I thought Stevens had a very poor game, fortunately not exploited. I don't expect McClean and Whelan to turn into players they are not, but for what they are they did good this evening.
The groups is very even, all the games between the big sides have been 1-1, our problem will be we do notQuote:
Originally Posted by Eirambler
score enough goal against the smaller sides.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVzUVEanNjU
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVzUVEanNjU" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVzUVEanNjU
Whelan about 9:16
He did well to keep it down really, a lot of those end up in row Z.
Strange days to find myself defending Glen Whelan, but I thought his performance tonight was one of his better ones. Not a great player to be sure, but he did distribute the ball well at timesQuote:
Originally Posted by tommy_c12000
Can't see us getting even a point away to the Swiss.Quote:
Originally Posted by tricky_colour
Swiss game is only 3 days after Georgia game so we will really be struggling for legs. No way whelan plays both so I would expect mick to keep him for Switzerland be great if McCarthy was back for Georgia. Steven's will be fresh for Switzerland doherty hopefully fit to come in left full in Georgia. Would have my doubts mcgoldrick will have the engine for 2 away games in 3 days.
Be great to have Brady and long get some minutes we will need everyone we can to get a win in Georgia and a draw in Switzerland
That might not matter.Quote:
Originally Posted by mark12345
Decent result tonight, but a classic typical Irish performance.
Go one goal behind, equalise and finish strong. Everyone comes away looking at the positives only for it to cost us the next time out.
I thought we looked way more assured when we switched to 3-5-2. Would love for this to be our system going forward. It seems to suit our current squad best and would mean we could bring in Doherty and Egan who are doing well at club level!
On a side note, can anyone confirm what’s actually needed to secure a play off? Is third place enough based on Nations League variables with other qualifying!
Top 2 teams go through, that’s 20 teams taken care of. Independent of this, 16 teams go into playoffs for 4 spots in league “A” “B” “C” “D” for final 4 spots based purely on that Nations League thing
If Wales and Denmark qualify, we enter the “league B” playoffs where we play a semi final against another “league B” team, then whoever wins final, again another league B team gets to go to Euros.
If Denmark or wales don’t qualify through their qualifying group then we will be relying on “league A” not having all their 4 spots taken, and us being high enough ranked in league B, in order to enter the league A playoffs, a tougher proposition. We are ranked 23, the second last team in league B, so would need luck this way.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA...ying_play-offs
https://www.uefa.com/uefanationsleag...d=2502798.html a nice simple video
I wouldn’t expect our current Ireland team to beat two teams our “same” level to qualify through playoffs, if it was one game you’d never know
Agree with that. Lost the ball a couple of times, but more often just kept it nice and tidy, and had a part in the goal.Quote:
Originally Posted by mark12345
Hendrick had a decent game too, especially in the first half.
McCarthy for O'Neill starting to make a difference now; some decent passages of play, and a rousing finale, although it's still obvious that we've a very weak squad. Was surprised at how poor the Swiss were at times - starting with an awful conceding a corner from their own tip inside the first 15 seconds, and also including some of the most wayward shooting I've seen in a while - but as osarusan said above, this seems to be an effect we have on teams at times.
Could you see us getting a point in Denmark (ranked 13th)? We did.Quote:
Originally Posted by mark12345
Denmark drew in Switzerland
Ireland drew in Denmark
Switzerland drew in Ireland.
Anyone have a feeling of deja vu?
Denmark took the lead on 76 mins we equalised on 85 mins.
Switzerland took the lead on 74 mins we equalised on 85 mins.
Shades of 2006 all over again...
I had a feeling we would, but that's only because it was an end of season affair. If we were to play them in Copenhagen next week I would say no. And there is every chance the Danes will beat us at the Aviva when they come here.
A point in Basel (I think we play there) will be fantastic. And of course we must do the business in Tiblisi
I had a feeling we would, but that's only because it was an end of season affair. If we were to play them in Copenhagen next week I would say no. And there is every chance the Danes will beat us at the Aviva when they come here.Quote:
Originally Posted by tricky_colour
A point in Basel (I think we play there) will be fantastic. And of course we must do the business in Tiblisi
It is the final games amongst the "big 3" that matter.Quote:
Originally Posted by mark12345
First is Denmark V Switzerland, if there is a result there we can draw our way to qualifying with the winner of that fixture.
A result there would be best for us as we do not fair well v the "minnows", and we would not have to beat any of the decent
sides.
However the team that lost would would be going all out to beat us, which they might well do.
But it's a lot of ifs and buts, we will just have to do our best, we have Georgia next and must not slip up there.
https://twitter.com/i/status/1169710888019996672
McClean did well to win the ball back
Be Georgia... no, not beat Georgia... be Georgia - it doesn't matter where Georgia finish in the group - they have already confirmed a play-off spot by topping their League D group, and will be well positioned to qualify for Euro 2020 as they will be taking on Kosovo, Belarus and North Macedonia (the country formerly known as the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia).Quote:
Originally Posted by ThirdManRun
For us, if we don't qualify through this group, whether we finish behind Georgia or lose all our remaining games doesn't actually matter either, as long as fifteen teams from Leagues A and B qualify through these main play-offs (sixteen, if one of those teams is Northern Ireland, who were the only League B team ranked below us), as that would leave us as the eighth-ranked team from Leagues A and B and would be enough to put us into the play-offs.
As regards the game, I came home from work and went to RTE's site with my hand half-covering my eyes in apprehension, and was relieved to see the result. I was particularly happy to see that McGoldrick got the goal - I know he's wanted to be part of the team for many years (even before he knew he was eligible) and didn't get many opportunities under O'Neill, with O'Neill having Keane, Walters, Long and Murphy to choose from. So after two MOTM performances and significant involvement in three of our five goals before tonight, it's terrific to see him get an important goal on the board in what is likely either his last or second-last campaign.
I also want to note how good a result this was by showing how much of a makeshift team we are right now: of the fourteen who played tonight, seven had fewer than a dozen caps before the opening whistle. James McClean's ten goals were one short of the total for everybody else. Five of our players play in The Championship, one in League One and one in the SPL (non-Old Firm), while three of our EPL players have only been there a month and Stevens' recent four appearances were his only ones apart from seven in 2012/13. By contrast, Switzerland's 14 was made up of eight playing in the Bundesliga, three in the Premier League, two in Serie A and one for Benfica.
So I guess we can't expect a repeat of the swashbuckling victories of Mick's last full campaign and we're still a long way from feeling qualification in our grasp. But we're still on track and it's possible that Georgia will be deciding factor over their next two games at home to Denmark and us. Given that challenge and the makeshift nature of our squad, if I was Mick I'd play pretty much the same team against Bulgaria, with some time for Cullen and Egan, a bit more for Hogan and Browne and maybe some minutes for Travers and Curtis.
Yes, he played some passes as you both point out. And I agree when he got the ball he generally kept things simple and completed the pass. But there’s a lot more expected from your defensive midfielder than putting a few passes together. If you watch the game again, and all recent games, and monitor Whelan closely it is clear his legs are gone and he’s not capable of doing the job he once did.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
Stopping advancing midfielders: on numerous occasions players skipped passed him like he wasn’t there. Watch Zakaria on a couple of occasions and Schar on on memorable occasion when whelan bought a “dummy” that he didn’t even attempt presenting a shooting opportunity. It was really concerning how easy it was. This was clearly evident vs Denmark as well.
Tracking runners and closing space: His positioning was actually so bad today a number of times, and obviously he doesn’t have the pace to compensate, even less so than his “peak” days. He was a liability today.
And the positive attribute to the game that he had today that people point to, he passed well. Yes every time he got on the ball he actually used it well, two dangerous miskicks apart. I only remember once or twice looking for the ball off the centre backs or goalie however. So if you want to focus on this aspect of his game as a defensive midfielder, he simply failed to demand the ball off the back line enough and be the link for advancing the ball. What little ball he received he actually did use well, and took a wonderful long range effort off the cross bar, but these achievements pale in comparison what is truly expected of a defensive midfielder at this level.
As I’ve said before, he has the heart of a lion and gives 110%, but he is painfully below the standard required and is potentially destructive to our chances to qualify.
For those commenting on how nice his passes were and what an actual good game he had, consider watching the game again and focus on whelan. Focus on the Swiss roaming forward with ease on a number of occasions. It is his primary role to stop this.
An alternative? You’ve probably no option but to give Cullen a chance. Playing well for Charlton, nice player. But I don’t think he’s a long term solution. 5th loan spell from West Ham at 23 years of age. Likely not going to make it there. For me, Jayson Molumby has it. Work ethic, engine, passing, shooting. But another few months away from justifying a trial start. Just hoping Neil Harris stop giving his buddy Williams a start ahead of him and he gets a few championship starts underneath his belt.
Don’t get me started on Mick’s fascination for Alan Judge and Scott Hogan. . .
Given that Stevens will be suspended for Georgia game, I’d try Coleman at left back and Christie at right. Coleman went there for Everton a couple of games ago after Digne got injured and did really well there I thought.
Also would love a look at a 4231 with Collins leading the line ahead of O’Dowda/Curtis, McG and Robbo/Judge. Cullen and Browne sitting in. In behind the #9 is easily the best position for McG in our set up. Agree that 352 is worth another look at some point.
Either way, Mick was hampered by not having time to experiment with his crop of players. Experimentation comes way ahead of the result for me in terms of the importance of the Bulgaria game.
Whelan simply can’t do it on his own defensively at the base of midfield. He looked better when he had the others back to help.
That was some thunderc*nt of a strike that hit the bar though.
McGoldrick utterly loves dropping to 10. We badly need a 9 ahead if him against Georgia, yes. Against Denmark I think we will need a deeper trio.
Ha ha it surely was.Quote:
Originally Posted by SkStu
Nearly as good as Phil Babb bouncing it off the crossbar with an overhead bicycle kick in a friendly against Czech Republic. Anyone remember that?
My few cents on this. Mcgoldrick doesn't want to be a 9. I felt we had no focus in the box last night on several occasions. When judge blasted his cross high and wide I reckon partly was he looked up, saw no one to aim at and realised mcg was behind him.
We need a focal point. I though Hogan did ok when he came on but was also quote withdrawn.
Duffy is a class player. No question. Very calm. The attitude is fab.
I though Whelan was a really mixed bag. You'd hope McCarthy can get game.time to take over from him. Beyond that I don't see a solution .
Hourihan and Jeff in the same team is interesting. Not sure if there is room for both.
I'm a fan of McLean generally but I don't see how he fits in this side. Not composed on the ball, didn't get any crosses in. Doesn't really add to any nice passages of play. Surely squad player at best. Time to invest in odowda or judge more.
Formation seemed to be all over the place to me but I admit I'm not very good at spotting these things. To me it looked more like a defacto 5 4 1 for most of the game with admittedly.very fast transitions.
I'd like to think we can be better at the high press but I suspect our midfield isn't mobile.enough for it collectively currently.
Decent result. Beat Georgia away and I fancy our chances.
Irish footballs emotional rollercoaster is pretty boring its got one down, with a big up. And then it finishes and you have to find your way down from the top. The inevitable 1-1 win that we seem to lose sight of. The same questions arise how come we only start playing with 15 mins to go or when we go a goal down or when we really need to score? Many of the same answers, the main one being the opposition sit back we get more time and space on the ball and we "energise" ourselves a good bit more. We've kicked the can down the road again. Like many times before.
On the formation/selection/positions I was a fair bit disappointed with Mick. He started with something close to what i would have liked in terms of selection but the positional/formation changes that went along were not right, he messed about with it(he said himself that he changed it around 3 times) and landed upon it in the last 15 mins, coincidence? It felt like he didnt really know what was best which is worrying.
A lot of players did one or two heart in mouth stuff to cover up generally average or poor performances. Coleman lost the ball on many occasions but had one great goal save, judge over hit or under hit every single cross/free but made a great intervention at the back. People are losing sight of us generally not playing but saving goals, for what players are played or brought on for.
I think the biggest change that affected how we played was dropping MCG deeper and bringing on an actual proper striker. Its fairly depressing that it took until the last 15-20 minutes to get that right. I really feel this game suited Long and I'm well aware of his limits but I'm more aware of our limits especially at present up front. We had at least a handful of opportunities where our players up top didnt have the pace or strength to outmuscle the Suissies but Long would have, we might not have scored but it was a platform that we could build proper attacks from, instead we had nothing to build from or off. Now more than ever we really need to play our best players and our best available positional players and ensure the formation matches this and gets the best out of those players.
I said when watching it Switzerland are just like us, they are just much better(at doing it) than us. Lots of mistakes and messing about in midfield and looking bang average. It was almost right apart from the goal, we could never work a move like that. Our footballing brains aren't as developed as other nations and our timing is always that nano-second behind opposing teams players.
Duffy and Keogh have not been putting a foot wrong really, one or two mi****s yesterday but they weren't(bar duffy missed header) in precarious scenarios. Stevens was generally poor but became more composed. MCG was very good when he dropped. Its a pity he's a bit slow and always looks a little big/cumbersome. Robinson didnt appear fit but he has some lovely touches. I hope he is not one of these players who just fades in and out. He's got the benefit here as he seemed to be happy enough coming off like he had some persistent niggle. Hourihane had some good patches of play but generally doesnt do enough. Hendrick much more involved than that the last 2 years accumulative. But still needs a little more. Whelan hit some lovely cross field passes when the swiss dropped off and sat deep. He was allowed to get better rather than he got better. Mcclean plays his heart out and its great to see with 20 mins to go but people should not lose slight he is limiting us for the rest of the game and our attacking threat. We have too many players like that already. I thought hogan did enough to just make space for mcg and allow us to play a proper formation that worked. Judge was brutal mccarthy got egg on his face, he saved a goal yes thats true but thats not what he was brought on for. Hes got about as much spark as a Trabant. Browne didnt see enough of because of time. Think he touched the ball once
And so here we are still hanging out, but soon we'll be caught up the table and a massive pressured filled game against Georgia. We'll get at least one more good night out of it yet.
Ya 100 agree with this in bold. Good to see someone else recognised/saw this too. Mccarthy admitted afterwards in the interview that he'd changed it 3 times during the game, which I mentioned above was worrying. He seemed close to it at kick off and then completely messed about not knowing what was best. Generally agree with overall post tooQuote:
My few cents on this. Mcgoldrick doesn't want to be a 9. I felt we had no focus in the box last night on several occasions. When judge blasted his cross high and wide I reckon partly was he looked up, saw no one to aim at and realised mcg was behind him.
We need a focal point. I though Hogan did ok when he came on but was also quote withdrawn.
Duffy is a class player. No question. Very calm. The attitude is fab.
I though Whelan was a really mixed bag. You'd hope McCarthy can get game.time to take over from him. Beyond that I don't see a solution .
Hourihan and Jeff in the same team is interesting. Not sure if there is room for both.
I'm a fan of McLean generally but I don't see how he fits in this side. Not composed on the ball, didn't get any crosses in. Doesn't really add to any nice passages of play. Surely squad player at best. Time to invest in odowda or judge more.
Formation seemed to be all over the place to me but I admit I'm not very good at spotting these things. To me it looked more like a defacto 5 4 1 for most of the game with admittedly.very fast transitions.
I'd like to think we can be better at the high press but I suspect our midfield isn't mobile.enough for it collectively currently.
Decent result. Beat Georgia away and I fancy our chances.
Good post, I would add one thing, I was very disappointed in Callum RobinsonQuote:
Originally Posted by dynamo kerry
and finally jeff had a good game
don't think robinson was fit. you cant sit out training the day before the match with a tight quad and be fit enough to play an international the next day.Quote:
Originally Posted by Diggs246
Whelan was man of the match.
Anyone who disagrees is wrong.
I mean, he literally crossed the ball in for our only goal, granted it took a deflection but still...Quote:
Originally Posted by dynamo kerry
I thought Robinson had some nice ideas but didn't really seem to connect with anyone mentally on what to do with the ball. That's systemic in my view. No one seems to have a plan going forward. Historically it was give.it to robbie or duffer. Even at a time it was give it to mcgeady.Quote:
Originally Posted by Diggs246
I love that they are all trying to press forward but I think we need a main man..
I know. I sat above him for the first half and watched him basically defend well but be otherwise disconnected from the flow of play. If his job was pump the ball into the box, overall for me he didn't do it. If his job was to be part of build up play to support chances in the box, he didn't do that very well either. With James, his effort means he will always make a contribution of some sort but on balance I wonder if there are options that would add more over a whole game.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArFella
Whelan looks fit and healthy and not as slow as other suggest here. My big issue with him is that he isn't that mobile overall and if we want to press high in the modern game he's on average not going to be able to cope enough with transitions when they break past. Then the Swiss lads just run past him. If we want to press high we can't have him sitting too deep.Quote:
Originally Posted by nigel-harps1954
I love that mick is pressing high. It's like the old days of put em under pressure with aldo pressing high up the pitch under jack. The proto gegenpressing. But Whelan sadly undermines that in my view. Mobility is key now. Hendrick is good but there must be a reason he us benched at Burnley. Maybe it's discipline or he's just not capable of being one of 2 centre mids. He was played as a kind of deep 10 or advanced 8 for ages.
Hourihane I love as an attacking mid is too similar. Same with browne. We need a mobile, tough, smart 6. Someone who lives and breaths breaking up play and setting off moves.
Whelan may have been man of the match. Doesn't mean his performance was good standard. I think it's a shame hearts was the best he could do this year. I'd say he could still do a job at championship level.
Again agree I was on about this before players being on the same wavelength. I felt most of the time watching certain players him being one he was on a different level, last night he definitely wasn't fit though. But the one time a player who seems to have that(symmetry, hendrick) we nearly scored off it.Quote:
Originally Posted by dynamo kerry
Ya i think we are praising players for their attributes but those same attributes that limit us otherwise or mask over what they should be really doing or what we really need. Simply put, these players limit our overall attacking play but pop up at vital times and cloud our judgement of them and what we actually want and really need.Quote:
Originally Posted by dynamo kerry
Fitness a big deal. Fitness plus awareness and attitude (and talent I suppose but these guys all.have talent) mean they can assert themselves on a pitch. Those little physical battles are more likely, fractionally to go their way instead of being a free kick. When our players get in a 50/50 and end up on the ground or losing out, if we are fitter, and better positioned we just need 2 or 3 of those to go our way in a game. Mcg looked fit. Others, not so much.Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
All of this is fine margins. I dont think Irish players are substantially worse than our opposition. (Certain players like eriksen aside) But slight differences can be dramatic on the pitch in perception to the fan. We had 42% of possession last night. With a few improvements we could flip that.
Precisely. It's possible to praise them but still evaluate where we are going. It must be fascinating to be mick right now. It's a terrific job to have. Pity Mon and Roy decided to be negative rather than embrace the joy of the challenge.Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
The key to stopping better teams is being compact in midfieldQuote:
Originally Posted by dynamo kerry
Last night there was no need for a high press with a front man or two running around using up energy. Our high press left more space for the Swiss midfield to run into, oft times than not. A high line just inside their half on the edge of the circle, closing off options/space, with the front 2 players ready to ponce as the opposition try to play out from the back.
I think Hogan was in an offside position when McClean sent in that cross, did the defection by a Swiss árse make him onside?